History Vintage "Cageless" Midget Picture Thread

Tough times back then; leaving the drivers body in the car to remove it from the track. Very hard boiled!

 

No, I am not looking for another one. One at a time is all I can handle. Still seems a bit pricey, but it does say selling for less on his web page.

This thread got me to the last owner/driver of the car that I am restoring, and that got me to the guy he sold it to, etc. I am going up the ownership chain, when I really want to go down the ownership chain. But, this along with my emails with Don Edmunds has given me a lot of info and history on the car. It apparently is a very early, and fairly rare Edmunds built car. Don noticed in the photos that it had a 'steel' grill instead of a cast grille, which he said makes it very early. Just the fact that the steel grill is still on the car is cool.

Need contact info for King Kramer in Lansing, MI. Anybody? I have a no longer in use number (517) 482-3283.

Blacki-suede

 

This guy posts here and no one knows it. He won the BCRA championships in 85 & 86 beating out the perennial champ out there Floyd Alvis both years. Of course I didnt recognize him lately as this hair do was the begining of a FRO in this pic. when it got fully bloomed it needed a shoe horn to get it all under His helmet!
aXe

 

Blacki, did you notice # 370282883258 also on e-bay.
mlight9.

 

Blacki
Just spoke with former driver Bruce Field. He lost track of Kramer, but he suggested trying Kenyon since he knows he bought from them, or the USAC office. He feels one should have information on him.

 

Luv the look of the Harry Stryker car. Who has it now ?

 

I spoke with Don Kenyon, he said they dealt with Kramer in the 80's, I think it was the 70's, but what can I say? Don also said they never sold any single tube frame cars, but did agree the car I have looked like an Edmunds, which we now know it is. Fred Rockey, the last owner/driver, said he talked with Mel Kenyon at race and Mel remembered the Kenyons having the car??? I have a contact that is going to give me King Kramers telephone number when he gets back to MI. He was out of town when I contacted him. I'm getting there. And I really appreciate everyone's help.

Blacki-Suede

 

Sounds like some good leads...good luck.
I brought back a couple space frame 4 bar cars to the midwest. My gramps (Bob Lockard)dealt some edmunds cars as well, but only a few. We had a single tube springer a lot like you have that Parsons ran in usac in 74. I lost track of it after around 76. It may have ended up in Aus. That thing worked pretty good everywhere, even though it was considered outdated when we ran it.

 

I think it is still owned by some guy named Stryker?
aXe

 

Kind of pricey too.

1947 Kurtis Kraft Offenauser Midget
http://www.finecars.cc/en/detail/car/23617/index.html

 

These really brought back memories.
I haven't seen them for a LOT of years.
They have them in a few different colors .. this is only the yellow version.

Midget Race Car Water Type Decal
http://cgi.ebay.com/Midget-Race-Car...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4cebcca92c

 

Chuck Porter suffered a heart attack and died while driving that car during a WRA play day at Indian Dunes, Valencia Ca.

 

An ex Lockard , single tube, springer, often driven by Merle Bettenhausen,
red, # 69, Chevy 2 powered,was sold to Trevor Morris and raced very succesfully in New Zealand. His clashes with Barry Butterworth are still talked about.

The car was beautifully restored by John Stanley, Auckland NZ and sold.
The owner transfered to US, taking the car with him, where I understand
it remains. Painted black with silver # 58.

 

I remember Trevor buying that one. I was young, but he and another from down there stayed with us for a couple weeks while my uncle and Merle ran usac. They went along and helped. At the time we had two midgets and one sprint. During one bad week Merle had all three wrecked...bummer. This was around 70. I'll see if I can dig up a pic.

 

Rotta,
Here is another Look of the Stryker Offy . With your friend Don Meacham driving.
In 1964 Dad had his first sponsor. It was a Chrome Plating shop.
The guy wanted the car yellow . It lasted one year and Dad could not wait to paint it Black White and Red again.
As far as where the original car is we don't know!
Dad did build a Recreation of that car. It was in Washington state but changed hands .
The Car I have is painted the same but all of its history is from the Northwest not the Bay Area.
I Would Love to find the original Car. Anyone know where it is ?

 

This one is my kind of unusual.

Not the body and chassis because that's Kurtis or a knock-off. They're like 57 Chev's. There's so many around.

It's the engine. Apparently a "53 or later Fergie that had the OHV head and then someone adapted a fuel injection set-up for it.

Wonder if it was done in the early 50's and ever ran then. Anyone have a clue?

There were so few engines other than V8-60's and Offy's with a smattering of Continentals, Studebakers, Fergies, and Drakes being run up until the early 60's when the Falcon came on the scene.

Then the fun began with a bunch of creative guys building and utilizing a big variety of engines. They're sort of still at it except the dollars have grown beyond all sense of economic reality.

 

Hey Little Fauss, I'm a believer.

By looking and questioning I learned about another of the creative guys who built something I had no knowledge of. There was an F head for the Ferguson, Speedy Bill has one but the one pictured has the manifolds too high to not be a full OHV crossflow.

Here's a test for the oldtimers... How many 4 cylinder 5 main bearing midget engines can you name?

 

I never would have expected to find this car at a Motor Cycle museum?
aXe

http://www.vft.org/rouit.html




Ernie Lacuk Special - Driven by Dutch Van Tassel of Fresno, won the
first sanctioned race at Capital Speedway in Sacramanto in 1933.
The 4 cylinder engine is 1/2 of a Marmon automobile straight power plant.
Frame rails, front and rear axles, and wheels are made from Model T components.
This car is courtesy of Doug and Marshell Van Tassel

 

That's my kind of car again. One of the very first midgets, many of which had motorcycle engines.

Here I'm questioning again...would like to get a better look at those wheels.

 

'28dreyer, Wow! 'If I'd known you were going to ask that question, I would have told you: Please don't! But, it's a GREAT question. The only problem is, is that it's almost endless in the number of engines that have been used in the midgets that have 5 main bearings. I can think of at least 20 right off the top of my head. I'll try to briefly explain why it's so endless. 'Not just GM but, Chevy alone is responsible for 2 Chevy II's (151 & 153;two completely different engines) the Chevy Cosworth-Vega, the Chevy Luv, not to mention the SESCO, which produced the SESCO-Chevy and the SESCO-Ford engines. It would be almost be easier to name the 3-main bearing engines, because there were probably fewer of those; even some V8's had only 3 main bearing crankshafts. My favorites are the "spaghetti Offy's" the Fiat 2000 and the Alfa Romeo. Aside from that, all the Japanese manufacturers have made engines that have been used, as well as German VW Rabbit, Audi and BMW. 'Too, too many!

 

Sorry, I'm thinking not only cageless but roll barless. I'm thinking prior to about '55.

 

Go here and ask them for better pictures,

http://www.vft.org/rouit.html

aXe

 

There was "1" 5 main bearing Offy midget engine made that I know of. I can not remember his name [someone will] but he was a retired Railroad machinest and lived close to Coxie Bowman and Ted Hartley. I went to his shop one day and there was some flat rectangler pieces of medal onthe floor and he ask me if I knew what they were and I said no. They were pieces of magnesium and he made rods for Offy midget engines out of them, he sold the first set to the Kenyons. He also made crankshafts out of billett steel[ I guess any stroke?]. He made one 5 mainbearing crankcase for the Offy midget and let Jimmy Davies try it first. Never did hear what became of it. He was around racing a long time, somebody help me remember his name.
Jim Graybeal

 

Heres 1 of my favourite photos,dont now who the driver is or what venue just love the pic.Man this car has plenty of attitude & his eyes totally focused down the track.

 

I think the name you are looking for is Walt Elliott. I never met the man, but having lived in Ossian, Indiana most of my life I have heard many stories about him from Coxie Bowman and Les Scott. Walt's home and shop was just outside of Ossian to the east.

Bill Miller
Ossian, Indiana
1987 CORA rookie of the year

 

Bill,
You are right it was Walt Elliott, real nice guy. Does anyone know if that was the only 5 main bearing Offy midget engine ever built?
I am going to Florida Friday or Sat. for the winter and after tomorrow will be off here for a few days, so you guys let me know if you come up with anything. Be back as soon as possible.
Jim Graybeal

 

4 Cylinder, 5 main bearing midget engine question, I know an obscure one among others;
The Samson. Regards, Wheels53

 

'wheels53! 'Funny you should mention the Samson. 'Just a few days ago we were discussing the roadster midget with the Ford Fergie engine that Walt Reiff had built in '58 that Shorty Templeman ran indoors at Oakland (CA). Later, on into the mid 1960's Walt moved to Southern California to work for Louie Senter at Ansen Automotive. During the late 60's Senter had acquired a Samson engine and him and Walt started running the car but soon crashed the car at the old Irwindale track. (Then named San Gabriel Valley Speedway; later Rivergrade Raceway and Speedway 605 where they ran the 1975 USAC Turkey Night Grand Prix) Ironically, the day Walt died at the 1970 U.S. Open Comp race at Sacramento, he had already qualified for the 100 mile race in Senter's 4 cylinder, 255 Offy sprint car. The only Offy to make the race that day. All of the 159 cid turbo-Offy, 220 and 255 Offy engines were five main bearing engines. I guess when Harry or Fred first designed the midget Offy it was only 90+ cid. 'Little did they know that the guys would take the stroke all the way to 3 7/8's and be running 40% nitro! I don't think we ever magnafluxed a midget Offy c/s that wasn't cracked.

 

One NEVER knows where they will come across a (vintage) race car.

A few years back .. when going through the AeroSpace Museum at Balboa Park in San Diego .. next to a display of some race plane .. there stood an absolutely beautiful wire wheeled - rail chassis . geaming black sprint car. I was told by the curator of the museum (a very nice man that I met tht day) that it was to tell kids who came through that whether race plane or race car .. the object was to win.

BTW -- that round building that now houses such things as a duplicate of the Lindberg "Spirit of St. Louis" that was built by some who helped build the original & was/is regularly flown (and older) .. to a Russian (Korean War vintage) MIG-15 jet (and newer) .. plus things from NASA & space shots .. was once the Ford pavilion at the Worlds Fair there .. where folks would enter at one point and walked completely around, while watching brand new Fords being assembled.

Another time on City Island (here in New York) while looking at used boats with a friend I literally stumbled (tripped) across a tarp and accidently uncovered a Kurtis (or Kurtis type) midget. The story was that Tony Bonadies (just before he was killed at the Williams Grove (PA) Speedway in Stanley Frankenfield's midget) was converting the brakes on the car from drums to disks for someone. What I heard about this car .. from the late photographer Eli Roth .. was even stranger. It seemed that the previous owners son was killed in the car & that the owner (supposedly) bulldozed a big hole & buried the car (evidentally NOT). However, just about no one had otherwise seen &/or heard about that car for quite a few years before I literally tripped over it. ........ This was both before the vintage/nostalgia movement and about the time that Kurtis machines were regularly loosing to those built by Csiski, Edmunds & Trevis, etc..

MANY, MANY years ago .. while looking for a used car .. I also accidently found (and brought home) a rail midget with no engine .. in an over grown corner of a used car lot. The guy who owned the used car lot GAVE it to me .. just to get it out of his way. Seemed that his brother (who had passed away) had owned it & raced it quite a few years before.

 

LF
it always astounded Me when in the rebuilding process of those midget engines they would drop them nose first on the crankshaft after installing it in the case? Like you I Did see a few cracked cranks, 2 or 3 laps with a skip and there you have it another crack.
I remember grinding out the cracked shaft from Strykers car after Vukie ran it skipping at Sacs Half mi track one year to repair it. one of the deepest I saw that didnt make two cranks shafts so to speak,LOL
aXe