expensive mistakes! internet hotrods

All that liability talk re homebuilt aircraft is very gratifying to know as the world spins 'round and 'round, ever faster, after a wing snaps off in flight.

 

It's Latin for "Let the buyer beware".

 

when somebody can't take a picture in focus or isn't willing to send more pictures i usually don't buy the line they give me as other than one of 2 things: they don't really want to sell it or they are outright crooks!

 

New laws will NEVER make the situation better.

They will only make it more difficult for our hobby to continue.

Government is not the solution to the problem, government IS the problem.

 

A friend bought a car here on the HAMB and it was a devastatig experience. Car was a project model A, so no questions about shape. It was first advertised at 10.000$ and then at 8500 after one week. When called, owner wanted 10.000$ , not 8500$, and not a penny less. My friend really liked the car, so he sent the 10.000$ . Car was advertised as having a title, was picked up and sent to warehouse for shipping to Italy. Title had to be sent via Fedex to shipping company. We had a copy sent via email, so copy of title was seen . After one month of waiting, title was still not received by shipping company,and car could not be loaded inside a container.After hundreds of non returned calls and non returned e mails, we had to apply for another title. After two months we managed to get the title and ship the car that now is in Italy. We had to pay for another title, and for storage fees at warehouse.
This guy probably put the title on another car that is now a clone to ours.
On the other side, I have bought several cars from HAmbers, and the experience has always been positive, all cars were correctly described and people were very nice and friendly.

 

One more? Yeah, I got burned on ebay and all because I didn't take the time to go and pick it up myself. I sent my son, he was honest and said "Dad, I just brought it home, I figured I'd get killed by you either way and knowing you can fix anything, I brought it home! YUP, I knew better and today I'm driving it....

 

Actually that's not true.

When you sell something to someone on your word and your word is not good that breaks two rules that will put you clear at the bottom of my list.

I don't like liars and I don't like thieves.

I did sell someone a pair of tires once that were not as I represented them. Its my own fault I didn't look at them close enough before I sold them. Fortunately the fella gave me the opportunity to make it right.

None of use have a lot in this world that has much value. Your word is one thing that you were born with and has value. If you comprehend what I'm endeavoring to convey.

 

Well, I just went to an open house that had "country club views". Turns out you could see the country club through the trees and several houses and it was about 3 blocks away. TECHNICALLY, you could see the country club from the house... what's my point?

Same thing goes with cars. These guys are masterful at stretching the truth and anyone that buys a car over the internet without actually looking at it in person is CRAZY! It's all about the game and the almighty dollar. They don't car that they screwed you, they car about the cash in their pocket...

 

oh no. not another ratrod airplane post....

 

I was at the sheriff's dept. waiting for the foreclosure auction one day and a guy came in complaining about a car that he brought off ebay. They gave him the detective that handles internet crimes. He basically had 2 questions for him before he would proceed with anything. first question was did he buy it from an individual or a business? He answered individual. Next question was did he inspect it personally? He answered no. The cop tells him there is nothing he can do then. He was having a fit and wanted now what do I do? Cop told him the same thing he told his neighbor that brought a ss on Ebay. Resale it there and recoup some of your money back, just make sure it leaves our jurisdiction or if it stays here then sell it as a parts car.

 

I call bullshit on that one. Here in Oz we have very strict laws covering what can and can't be registered for road use. And based on some of the cars I see here (and moreso on the rat rod site) our cars are, on average, much better built.
That said there are still those who disregard the law and drive whatever they want...

 

Those "pay for independant inspection" services are worth the loot.
It's no skin off the inspector's nose if the car is a real turd, he still get's paid. It's funny how some people will spend $20,000 bucks on a car, but won't spend $300 on an inspection. $300 hurts a lot less than $20K.
If you bomb out, just stay on the wagon for a coupla weeks and you're even.
Here in Australia I've lost count of the "... but it looked so good in the photos!...." stories when they finally have their ride (or nightmare) in their driveway, and they start looking at the areas that the seller never took photos of.
But I gotta hand it to some U.S. sellers- the way they can make a complete rear quarter panel out of chicken wire, flywire and bondo is a real lost art!!

 

Yes, and it costs ~3X as much to build a hot rod over there, and it takes the assistance of at least one professional engineer, and the approval of all sorts of bureaucrats.

From where I'm setting, your version of hot rodding is already ruined.

Perhaps you have to be an American to understand, but generally speaking, we very much dislike having to ask permission to use our own money to build things with our own hands and drive them on roads paid for with our own taxes.

Freedom means never having to beg for permission to act using your own resources.

Even for all the shit cars people complain about on the rat rodding sites, when was the last time you heard of someone getting killed (or even seriously hurt) because of one of them? I can't remember a single instance. Can you?

Also remember that in any given year, ~55,000 people die in car wrecks in the US. So, unless rat rod related deaths eclipse 500 per year, I'd call them statistically insignificant (IE it is beyond pointless to impose regulations on everyone else to try and quell a non-existent problem).

We don't need a hot rod czar for the same reason we don't need a kiddie pool czar (the whole unconstitutionality of czars not withstanding), because while a few people may croak it because of them every year, the freedom enjoyed by the many far outweighs the damage done to exceptionally few.

As an aside, I have a theory as to how you can have a car with no floor, no seats and 50 yr old tires that doesn't kill anyone.

My theory is that rat rodders aren't as all fired stupid as people think they are, and that most of those "shock rods" that look like they'd kill you in a second on the road are not driven at all, for that very reason.

They come to the show on a trailer, get pushed into their spot, set there all day while people circle around them and cluck their tongues, then it gets pushed back up onto the trailer and dragged home again. Even the guys that build them realize that to drive the things would be foolish in the extreme.

The point is, regulation will not "save" anyone, it will simply remove freedom. After all, factory automobiles have to go through a veritable maze of qualifications and testing before being offered for sale, and yet ~55,000 people still manage to kill themselves inside of said cars every year.

You cannot legislate common sense.

 

I got a ride in Kevin's T pickup in summer 2007....a few months later he crashed and Danny was riding shotgun, and died.

I'm just sayin...you struck a nerve

 

Very well put.

 

I'm sorry your friend died. That always sucks, regardless of the circumstances.

Was that fellows car poorly built? Or was it just a matter of mass?

Even the most well built Model T is going to lose when pitted against a Yukon or one ton truck.

In situations like that, engineering and craftsmanship don't even enter into it, it's just a matter of kinetics.

 

I went to look at a 64 Fairlane that looked really nice in the online ad images. The car was home depot foam and rust flakes holding a running engine and tranny together. I posted a warning about this car on the Fairlane sites and the here, but yeah someone bought it and was trying to resale on the big auction site. buyer beware on internet ads and note todays cameras make some crap look better in images than in person.
You can always ask to see if someone on here can go check a car out for you. rolling over some dough for gas and time is cheaper than a bigger loss in the end.

 

Don't worry it works both ways!

 

Look before you leap, or just build it your self.

 

The Australian level of regulation pisses me off for all the reasons you stated but I can see demonstrable benefit

Your population is 20 times that of Australia yet Australia's death toll from motor accidents is less than 1000 per year. So there is a very demonstrable benefit to our level of regulation.

Your chances of dying in a motor wreck are almost 3 times higher in the USA than in Australia.

 

A few years back I see a 58 chebby on the internet I just have to own. First hotrod for quite a few years, and more $ than I had ever spent on one. Car's in Vegas, I'm in Georgia. Talk to guys out there who know the car, but all I have are some really nice pics. Anyway, I send the $, have car picked up. A few days later I get a call from the transport driver handling the first leg of the trip. Tells me he's just unloaded it for pickup for the final leg as promised. Then he says "lemme ask you something, did you pay very much for this car?" I said I thought it was a fair deal. He says, "man I dunno how you guys buy cars without lookin' at 'em. This car is so rusted-out I could hardly find a place to tie it down. I sure hope you didn't pay much", etc., etc. Needless to say, you couldn't have shot a BB up my ass with a howitzer. 2-3 agonizing days later the car arrives. I sheepishly look as it's unloaded. No rust. Body, frame, everything dry as a bone. Magnet sticks everywhere. I still don't know what possessed that driver to screw with me so bad, but if I ever meet him I'm gonna kill the sumbitch.

 

I bought a 360 sprint car off that "big" auction site... Seller was "Hank Hill" from somewhere in Arkansas. Numerous calls to the owner, lots of extra pics, everything looked good. Took about 4mos to get it transported out to CA. When it showed up EVERYTHING was junk except the chassis and rear axle tube.

Never again.

 

Holy shit! Some folks get a real kick out of f'ing with people. Years ago, when I was driving my Chevy every day (only thing I had running at the time), every day some clown would try to tell me it just got hit in the lot, stolen, etc.. Glad to hear it worhed out for you. 58's are cool.

 

LOL, this was an expensive mistake. I bought "Angel Dust" from the con artist...I mean car dealership Greater Dakota Classics. When I saw the car online I called and was told the car was in great shape, needed a little wiring work and there was a minor chip here and there on the car. Ok, no big deal. I send the money, get all the paperwork cleared up and wait for the car to be delivered. Car arrives at 9 at night on a Friday, looks great on the trailer. Driver pulls the car off the trailer, battery is dead, won't even jump. Fix that, start the car, it dies. Over and over and over and over again. We pop the hood and determine there is a vacuum leak coming from oh I don't know, the piece of wood that is taking the place of a bolt....no joke, a friggin broken off stick. this is now 2 or so hrs later btw...find a bolt, temporary fix. Cars starts, running like crap but it starts. Put it in reverse....where are the brakes? No brakes! E Brake BARELY works....barely. Driver could not believe how f'ed up this car was but he was to coolest dude, stayed and helped me with everything. Lastly, the car was dropped off about 5 miles from my house so it was E brake all the way home. Oh and those minor chips in the paint here and there? There were minor cracks and chips in the flake but the owner of GDC failed to mention the 4" by 3 1/2" chunk of paint missing on the rear quarter panel!. So here's to you Greater Dakota Classics, best of luck ripping of the next sucker.

 

This is the only answer for those buying on WEB Sites, In the past several years I have done aprox. 25 pre-purchase inspections and of those only 5-6 were purchased. The sellars totally misrepresented their cars. We also have a Custom Car PRO-BUILDER up here now, who 2 years ago was building CUSTOM choppers and 2 years before that he he was a roofer. Talk about jumping on the current trend bandwagon. Bottom line if you cant see it yourself get someone else to do it before laying out the cash.

 

Squirrel sorry for you loss friend. I'm not sure that I know Danny but one lost by one of us is one lost by all of us.

I believe that the question was about someone getting hurt by a Junk Rod, excuse me rat rod?

People get hurt or die on a daily basis by someone useing a car that is either improperly built or poorly built/maintained.

But if you need a specific way before trad rods were considered trad and folks were still driving junk I was tuning for a pro-stock guy. We were at a track in Iowa and I watched as a fella blasted through a the pits in a very poorley built "Street Beast" (the '70s equivelent of a Rat Rod) it took out a rail, to pro-Stocks one of them ours and smacked a track official.

The bottom line is it doesn't matter what you call a car if its junk its junk.

Anyway Squirrel sorry about your friend.

 

Lot's of bad experiances! I guess it's best to buy local, so you can inspect them or have a know person do it for you. If I was to shell out 10,000 grand for a car a long way's away, I think road trip would be in order. Heck if the car is crap you might find a better one on the way home......

 

Coolhand wrote: "From where I'm setting, your version of hot rodding is already ruined.

Perhaps you have to be an American to understand, but generally speaking, we very much dislike having to ask permission to use our own money to build things with our own hands and drive them on roads paid for with our own taxes.

Freedom means never having to beg for permission to act using your own resources.

Even for all the shit cars people complain about on the rat rodding sites, when was the last time you heard of someone getting killed (or even seriously hurt) because of one of them? I can't remember a single instance. Can you?

Also remember that in any given year, ~55,000 people die in car wrecks in the US. So, unless rat rod related deaths eclipse 500 per year, I'd call them statistically insignificant (IE it is beyond pointless to impose regulations on everyone else to try and quell a non-existent problem).

We don't need a hot rod czar for the same reason we don't need a kiddie pool czar (the whole unconstitutionality of czars not withstanding), because while a few people may croak it because of them every year, the freedom enjoyed by the many far outweighs the damage done to exceptionally few.

As an aside, I have a theory as to how you can have a car with no floor, no seats and 50 yr old tires that doesn't kill anyone.

My theory is that rat rodders aren't as all fired stupid as people think they are, and that most of those "shock rods" that look like they'd kill you in a second on the road are not driven at all, for that very reason.

They come to the show on a trailer, get pushed into their spot, set there all day while people circle around them and cluck their tongues, then it gets pushed back up onto the trailer and dragged home again. Even the guys that build them realize that to drive the things would be foolish in the extreme.

The point is, regulation will not "save" anyone, it will simply remove freedom. After all, factory automobiles have to go through a veritable maze of qualifications and testing before being offered for sale, and yet ~55,000 people still manage to kill themselves inside of said cars every year.

You cannot legislate common sense.[/QUOTE]


You might be correct is everyone had half a brain and behaved responsibly. We need legislation to protect us from EACH OTHER. One man's car is another man's weapon of mass destruction.

Under your theory, we may as well get rid of annual automobile inspections. You know very well that some assholes will drive around with baloney skin tires and kill somebody while exercising their freedom to do so.

 

[QUOTE=stlouisgasser;4537893]I'l tell 'ya what....... racingjunk.com has really live up to it's name for me on a couple of occasions now and has really put the brakes on me doing long distance car-buying. I bought what was supposed to be a rust-free '65 Chevelle project car from Southern Texas for $2500 and I can't believe what showed up in my driveway a week later with the transport fellow. This car looks like it came out of a river....Everybody has a different opinion of what "nice" is. I've developed a question that I'll always ask before I go to look at something...."What am I gonna see on your car that I'm not going to like?" and most of the time a spinter of honesty will come out. Not always.......but sometimes.[/QUOTE]

You're onto something here. As much as our web-enabled world allows us to buy cars, parts and other things sight-unseen from hundreds, even thousands of miles away, there absolutely is 'value' in buying a car locally wherein you may have some sense of the car's history, or you can ask around if anyone in your local club or community knows any good stories surrounding that car. There's something to be said for the local guy who knows that 'perfect' car got wadded up pretty good and spent two months over at bodyshop-X ten+ years ago or so after Old Farmer Johnson's 16-year old ran it into a bridge abuttment...or similar stories.

Ask yourselves this...If the car and deal is so nice, why didn't the current owner find a local buyer? The answer is simple-because very likely, the local enthustiasts all know the history of the car and want nothing to do with it. Now I'm not saying every car that is nationally advertised is suspect, but when buying a car, maybe it's a good idea to go back to buying locally and asking around first before plunking down thousands of hard-earned dollars sight-unseen.

Caveat Emptor.

 

Are you people reading what you are writing?
Hotrods need to be built to standards where nobody is killed when they stumble?
Give me a break.
A perfectly built traditional roadster or another with poor welds, junk parts, and no cotter keys in the linkages, in a crash, will dole out equal amounts of trauma to the human body.

As for buying something sight-unseen and paying for it without inspecting it, buyer beware. Simple logic. Then of course, it's human, stupid, but human nevertheless, to blame the other guy when we are duped. Government can't legislate common sense.