Good idea / bad idea? - Sandblasting business question...

I think that would be a great deal and it will keep your stuff without selling.

 

I haveta agree with ryno, there's EVERYthing right about finding someone eager to learn and pass the torch to. If anything, to keep the knowledge you have alive and current. Offload some of the heavy lifting and small jobs that won't cost you an arm and a leg to make up if they go south. Remember back to when you were learning and pass on those lessons, start em from the ground up and make em earn it. Save your back and hire a new buck.

May take some time and trial and error (and careful project management), but can't be any worse than being sued by someone cuz they blasted their own part to kingdom come.

 

I always cringe when I hear those stories... honestly, what got me into sandblasting was a bad experience with a local blaster who is now out of business. I asked the guy to sandblast an oilbath for my '49 Willys CJ2A Jeep. I asked the guy if it was possible to keep most of the sand out of the wire mesh and he assured me he had ways of keeping it out. He also said it'd be cheap blah blah blah.

Well shame on me for not getting a price first. Totally my fault. He charged me 90 bucks to blast AN OIL BATH... and when I picked it up, it weighed 20 pounds more than it used to.

The situation you described above tells me two things. He was using a tip that was too fine, pressure was too high, sand volume was too low (he was trying to be cheap), and it sounds like the media wasn't either real blasting sand, or it was the cheaper "industrial" blasting sand which costs half as much as the sand I buy... the bad thing is it's used for stripping bridges... lastly it sounds like technique was lacking.

Sandblasting is like painting. You get the edges, jambs, nooks and crannies first, then you work your way out to the easy to access parts. AND just like painting you remove paint and rust in "coats". You don't just hammer on it until it's grey clean metal.

If you paint too much in one spot, you get runs and it looks like shit. If you blast too much in one spot you get it hot, it warps, and also looks like shit.

 

I just had a guy come out with his portable blaster set up and blast a frame for me, 100 bucks is all it cost. He was here almost 2 hours. Had a big truck with a diesel compressor on it, he brought the sand, he drove here, he did all the work except for needing a hand to flip the frame. I couldnt really do it myself for that price plus I was able to keep working on customer stuff!

 

That's beyond a steal. I can't even see how he would be ahead on that... frames typically take 3-4 hours depending...

What was your frame out of?

Was he using fresh sand out of a bag, or did he have it in a container like it had been used before?

Something isn't computing here... are you related to him? LOL

 

I think it would be a great idea just figure out the liability thing and what it accually cost you to run your machines, so you can see if it would be worth it. I run a small kustom body shop and send my stuff out for blasting. I finally found someone that i like and trust with my stuff and guess what he breaks his neck in a wreck. He recouperates fine but decides to sell out, and offers me a deal on one of his blasters i couldnt refuse. So now i have to make a room for it. If i had a deal like you offered around i would most definatly use it. So i would'nt have to deal with all the stuff you described. So good luck with your idea i hope it works out great for you.

 

Very true, on the flip side I have gotten some parts very usable parts because some shop or other warped them. A little time and some shrinking does wonders. Good luck I hope it works out, I know I'd be interested....

 

Hi

I do the entire build for some of my customers. I do whatever some people just drop off ie. narrow a rear end housing, fab up or machine some parts but some of my best customers like to "GET INVOLVED". For those who want to "get involved" they do not pay the $80.00 shop rate, instead they pay $200.00 a month for space in the shop and $10.00 an hour to use "ALL" of the equiptment. Customer also pays for consumables ie. grinding disc's, sandpaper, paint, etc. If a part of their build needs a lot more skill than they posess, the hourly shop rate is dropped to $60.00, and I do it with them so they learn how. Some of my customers build entire projects in my shop from start to finish........it takes about 1500 hours minimum. We have a lot of fun working together, and learning from each other. Quite a few of my customers have been with me for many years and when I see how much they have learned over the years I am impressed on how good their machining has come along, how nice their TIG welds are, how their fabrication and engineering skills have come along, it makes me proud to see the levels they have reached. One of my customers has one of the Top 10 (according to Trends mag) customs, Mark Camerons '49 Ford and he is presently in the shop building a '49 Chevy truck. Thirty five years ago he was just a young guy with a skateboard watching me work in my garage.....glad I invited him in...helped him and now sometimes while working on his '49 he notices another in the shop who needs a little help, he stops what he is doing and HELPS. So........I guess you know by now I'm in favor of letting others use the equiptment, just like your grandpa or dad let you do.............I guess the only downside of letting people use your equiptment is there is a learning crurve that is hard on your stuff but if you watch closely it is usually minimal. The only real issue is if somebody gets hurt. If you've been in the hot rod world or any other "trades related" hobby's you know your gonna get hurt. Metal can be sharp, shit can fall, you bump into stuff, get pinched etc. I require that all working customer's have insurance ie Kaiser, Blue Cross etc. A few years back I paid for a persons medical bill.......4 days........$44,000.00 cash. He was supposed to have insurance but we found out after the fact he didn't. Glad I had the cash. Glad he is doing well. We no longer take your word...we need proof of the medical insurance.

Good luck
Jerry Sezar
www.jerrysezar.com

 

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It almost sounds like a good idea. Why not hire someone, 2 guys if there is work and you run it. I have 3 customers and 2 are friends that have mobile blasting service and they all complain about getting beat to death. They do vehicles, buildings, steel structures as well as boats........tough work..........Good luck..........

 

$44k would hurt me... my wife would finish the job and kill me. LOL... I like your approach Jerry and agree with you that it does feel good to pass the torch.

 

That price dont seem to out of range. The said guy i talked about earlier charged me (although i did get a good discount as we were good friends) 190 to blast a chassis. Thats a full size vehicle not compact lol. He also charged me 250 to do a full vehicle from bumper to bumper.

 

The problem is my trusting an employee with my reputation... and the fact that i'm not willing to give up my "day" job to do this full-time. Atleast not in this economy.

I'm skeered.

I can't afford to hire someone to manage the business and run a small crew either... i'm basically stuck with me, myself, I and me. I know it sounds like a copout... but i've got a house, wife, and a hobby i'd like to keep.

 

Geez... I must be doing something wrong lol. If that guy were here in Austin, he'd have every job in town.

250 for a vehicle bumper to bumper is wild. To what extent was he stripping it? I'm used to getting every nook and cranny including the backside of the dash etc...

I'd like to know what his setup was and what type of sand he was using...

It's not worth the hassle to strip a vehicle inside and out bumper to bumper, top to bottom at this level of quality... i'd be upside down in a heartbeat... that's a lot of detail work. (not my pic below)

 

CJ: You already work 4 10 hour days. If you supervise your blast operation for 10 hours the remaining 3 days and are able to charge $75 you will gross $2,250 per week. Subtract your consumable expenses, taxes, bookkeepers, heat/cool, cost of the building you say you will build, what do you have left? (Not much)You will not be able to sustain a 30 hour pay schedule every weekend. What about set up time for your customers? Are they on the clock , or do you "eat" the time the first guy is clearing out and the second guy is setting up. Will you wind up storing stuff, or will it be an "in & out" deal only? If you hurt yourself in the blast shop, what happens to your "secure" job? You have no time for maintenance, no time for your family, shopping, household chores, etc. Can you rethink how to run the business yourself? Be selective on what you accept, can you buy sand in smaller bags, or cut the bags open and load lighter amounts? Sounds like a good idea, but the reality of the details are daunting.

 

i didn't mean to imply that your business wouldn't work , just that it would not be a service that i would be interested in. i'm sure there are many who would...and many here have said that. good luck with whatever you decide to do

in a little while i'm off to blaster,he called last night and my stuff is ready for pickup

 

You live in Texas, get an illegal immigrant - or seriously a helper to work with you the three days that you blast. He can do all the heavy work and cleanup, you just run the nozzle - simple. You could set up some stools or platforms to kneel on or sit once in a while as you blast certain areas or smaller parts. Set up a rack to hang stuff up so you don't have to hunch over your work to do it. I know it's hard work, but maybe you can set it up to be a little more ergonimically freindly. Wear a back brace or support equipment to subside fatigue.

 

Nope, I don't like it. I can see from your posts you already know way more about blasting than any novice could learn, even if you're standing over their shoulder. It would be more cost effective for a customer to just let you do it at your rate.

By keeping it a side business you control when you work, how much you make, who is your customer, shop safety, and quality control. One lawsuit loss or settlement will erase possibly years of profit.

After 3 hernia surgeries (I am stupid and don't like to ask for help) I have bought plenty of winches, hand trucks, and cranes to help lift heavy stuff. The most expensive winch will seem like a bargain after your first hernia recovery.

JMHO. Best wishes.

 

Just my $0.02...

Personally I love the idea of a DIY place to blast parts, but I also know my skills and how mechanically inclined I am... I also know when I need to ask questions and need to learn something. A cheaper price for people skilled like HAMB members would be wonderful, but if you were to do the DIY setup I would charge $75-100 if not more - the higher cost will be more likely to weed out customers that don't want to take the time to learn the process. That being said, it sounds like the best option for you would be to hire a helper (high school student?) who's into cars, needs part time work, and wants to learn a trade skill. Even with the DIY setup it sounds like you'd be there the entire time the customer is working so why not have it be a helper you're observing. At least that way you would always know the type of person you are working with and over time they will need less guidence, where the DIY person will ALWAYS need guidence. As a perk you could even offer the helper to blast their parts for free, or at cost, to help them with their car project. Just an idea.

 

Make it a "members only" club. Start it out slow. Pass out information at car shows. I would guess that you will get so many car guys involved doing their stuff that you wouldn't want to be open to the general public anyhow.
In the off season/winter time, you will be filled up. Meet once a month for two hours. First hour to introduce new members and hash over concerns; there will be a lot of them!

Second hour to explain the equipment to new members.

For safety, security, and to discourage abuse of equipment, the shop access could be restricted to a buddy system. I belonged to a gun club once that had the following policy, might even work in a sandblasting club. Members broken down into two groups; Group A and Group B. Two combination locks on the door. A person with combination A would have to get a person with combinatin B to accompany him.

Have a log to indicate time in/time out. Charge whatever it takes to make it all worth your while. There would be cheating. Figure out a system to cut down on that.

Adjust your "rules" to whatever kind of a manager your, hands off or micro.

 

NOT SANDBLASTING BUT FOR COMPARISON, A FEW MONTHS AGO I RENTED A SODA BLASTER FROM STRIPCO IN DALLAS AS A DO IT YOURSELF PICKED UP THE UNIT ON FRIDAY AFTERNOON AND RETURNED MONDAY AT 9 AM COST FOR UNIT $250 6 bags of soda =$150.. blasted complete 63 nova and MODEL A COUPE, WORKED GREAT DID A NICE JOB AND COST ME $ 400. IT WAS A LITTLE MESSY

 

I can understand your hesitation to trust someone else with something that has your name on it. However, by runnin a DIY place your (granted in a very dissonant way) puttin your name in the hands of many complete strangers. Yes, to the rational person, they are doin the work and the ultimate quality is their responsibility; but with how easily twisted stories can become, the end result may fall on your shoulders anyway. I think hiring some sort of help would be a better way of solving your dilemma. Even for 12 bucks an hour, I think you could find a very motivated young guy (like myself) thatd have a blast (no pun intended) helpin you out and learning the trade. They'd be like you own apprentice, so in essence you still control the quality of work.

 

This place has been around for some time.

http://www.u-spray.com/

Sounds pretty much like what you're contemplating. It's known by every car guy I know.

I personally wouldn't use it because I have my own 6'X6' blast cabinet for smaller parts and I have a couple of different companies that I have do bigger projects. I don't do the larger stuff myself because I worked in a truck body shop for over three years and did my share of blasting and I won't do it anymore. I find it more cost effective to have some one else do it. But for the guys who want to do it themselves and don't have the space or equipment your idea,IMO, is very good. Whenever you read a post from someone who wants to do the blasting themselves they don't usually realize the mess they'll make. Also, the initial cost for decent equipment is huge. You can blast with a small compressor and blast system but it's going to take forever and you'll be sweeping up sand until the end of time. My money and time is better spent on tools and materials and doing something else on my vehicles.

 

You are at a classic dilemma point of all businesses. You have been successful enough to think about growth and options, but the practices that got you there (your back) will no longer sustain the growth/success. Which way to jump? Customer self-serve is a creative option instead of current state or going full-time. Is there enough demand to justify the investment in insurance, safety and other concerns? I have my doubts. At the risk of getting too deep, what are you really trying to acomplish? Increase profitability? Grow the business till it can be sold as a going concern? How about two tiers of service? The PC quality sheetmetal work you are really good at gets one rate and the rusty pipe work gets the recycled sand rate? How about specializing ONLY in sheetmetal? If you turn down the work thats wearing you out you decrease income, but how important is the income to your livelyhood / lifestyle? If you are spending all your time blasting to make $ for your own projects, when do you work on them? None of this is meant as a critique, but these are questions you need to ask yourself.

 

Well Chris, you asked for it, every post on here has really good points to take into consideration. Almost every situation imaginable has been covered, I think its a good idea and a really good start with all the input. Having all these scenarios in front of you will help you plan it out better.

So that being said (not much more I can add),,,,,,,,

Where do I sign up? I need a few things blasted, as you know, so let me by the guinea pig so you can go through a "real world scenario".

I'll call you to talk about timeframe and prices.

Rey

 

Hey Rey!

I've been meaning to call you to ask about how the party went.

Yup, I definately got what I asked for, and THEN SOME haha... Everyone's input has been perfect.

As long as you promise not to sue me when you blast your left cajone off, I think you'll be a good guinea pig. You'll have to post up how hard or easy you thought it was though. hahaha...

 

I'll make sure to cover my huevitos.

The party was a blast!!!!! I can remember most of it, here is a pic.

Anyhow I'll call you to set go over the details. BTW how does sand handle this weather? Especially the moisture? We'll talk about it.
Rey

 

have you thought of buying a used fork lift and some pallets ? bad backs are no fun.......

 

Not having read every post, I have a couple mentions here:
You mention silicosis is dangerous after a while. I assumed it was pretty dangerous pretty much right away? Even after your expenses, etc.... your still left with the clean-up, so you're still dealing with it.
You know well enough, anyone using your stuff will need you around and take up your time. So you're still involved.
Sounds like a good idea, but it's not going to be an automatic source of effortless income. If you're OK with that, I'd definetly use the service!

 

As a price consideration from a consumer standpoint...

I would assume that you could do my work faster than I can...
Therefore it would have to be a considerable savings to do it myself.
The $50 an hour rate others mentioned would be the limit for me, but I dont know if that leaves you enough room to profit...

 

I am with the group that things you should get a helper. If it were me I would get a someone from one of those construction staffing companies (labor ready, able body etc...), they are cheep you pay by the hour and they are covered under that companies insurance if they hurt their selfs luggung all the hevy stuff around.