History We ALL Love a DARE! PIX of TRULY Extinct Makes?

SunRoof, sharp Cord prototype! Who made that V-12?

 

I believe Lycoming since E.L. Cord owned Lycoming.

 

Is it the Auburn v12 or something else. The way the story reads it seems they found the body and not much else?

 

1923 Peerless V-8 Touring Car

I took these picture at a show in Menominee Wis. in April 2007

 

I would guess it is an Auburn V-12. Wish I knew where I had one of the articles on the car. Interesting story but nothing online. As I recall, the body was found in a scrapyard in Chicago.

 

What a great story on the E-1 Cord. I haven't been to Auburn for a couple of years, I gotta get back up there. Man that thing is beautiful.

 

This would indicate at least one............

eBay find of the day: 1960 Henney Kilowatt electric car

by Jeremy Korzeniewski (RSS feed) on Feb 25th 2008 at 9:40AM
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Click on the image above for more pictures
Originally billed as "The Ultimate Achievement of Advanced Electrical Engineering and Compact Automotive Design," you could call the Henney Kilowatt a true forefather of today's hybrid and electric cars. The whole story of how this car came to be is available here at the Wiki, but the short version is that the Eureka Williams Company (think vacuum cleaners), Henney Coachworks and National Union Electric Company (original makers of Exide batteries) all got together with tooling bought from Renault to create a fully electric sedan to compete with gasoline-powered cars of the same era (the 1950s). Unfortunately, the machine was held back by the same problems that electric car companies face today: price, speed and range. At first, the 36 volt power system was woefully inadequate, but for 1960, a new 72 volt system allowed the car to reach 60 miles per hour for about 60 miles. Still, this was too little, too late for the Kilowatt and less than 50 were ever sold.
The low production numbers of the Henney Kilowatt make this eBay auction quite unusual. The future owner of this car is extremely unlikely to ever see another example of his car on the road. As this is written, the high bid was $5,215, but the reserve had not yet been reached. If you are interested in owning a very cool and interesting piece of alternative-automotive history, be sure to watch this auction intently.

Gallery: Henney Kilowatt

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Not sure if this is one of the two originals or this fellow in Uruquay built it from a sedan.

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Quote:
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I believe Lycoming since E.L. Cord owned Lycoming.
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And AlsAncl said: Is it the Auburn v12 or something else. The way the story reads it seems they found the body and not much else?

Jimi: NOW, this is getting to be an interesting mystery! I guess THIS is why we have been enjoying the thread of this whole theme! Lycoming came to my mind first, BUT I never heard of Lycoming building more than eight cylinders. And, the start-up costs of builidng a new 12 for a somewhat risky venture seem like a LOT for a prototype that might/might not see production. Auburn seems pretty logical, since it was in the ACD family at the time. Now, even if we were there inspecting this survivor, how could we identify the engine, and how could we know if it was THE power plant originally installed? The plot thickens!!!

 

Lycoming definitely built a V-12 and they were in other Auburns besides the Speedster.

The Auburns Speedster had it all - style, performance, durability, and reliability. In 1932, in the heart of the Great Depression, the cars were offered with a V12 engine and priced at less than $1,000. The Lycoming V12 45-degree V12 engine had dual downdraft carburetors, dual exhausts and rectangular combustion chambers with valves entering through the inboard side of the cylinder heads.

Pics of Auburn 12's here.

http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z12017/Auburn-1250-Twelve.aspx

 

Swi, that is keen to actually SEE one that still works. Myself,
I honestly think people have always wanted too much from an
electric. With an attitutde adjustment, I believe people could
warm up to a quiet electirc as a town-about ride -- with an
occasional shot out onto the freeway.

Maybe, these new HYBRIDS can eventually satisfy ocnsumers --
that is, when manufacturers can get the sticker price into a
reasonable range.

MYSELF, I believe it is TIME for STEAM to come back, and I am
serious. As well, when technology avails us a practical way to
crack hydrogen from water, that would be a viable energy source.
AND both of those propellents can make a car go FAST -- which is
what the HAMB is about.

Sorry to be OT for a sec, guys, but you HAVE to insert thoughts
WHEN they are pertinent to a conversation.

 

SunRoof said: Lycoming definitely built a V-12 and they were in other Auburns besides the Speedster.

The Auburns Speedster had it all - style, performance, durability, and reliability. In 1932, in the heart of the Great Depression, the cars were offered with a V12 engine and priced at less than $1,000. The Lycoming V12 45-degree V12 engine had dual downdraft carburetors, dual exhausts and rectangular combustion chambers with valves entering through the inborad side of the cylinder heads.

Jimi: Whoa! That's a cool bit of education for ME! SRCord, I have been laboring along for years thinking that the '35/'36 Auburb boat tail speedsters used Lycoming V-8s. Please tell me if they had a 12 available.

 

Sorry for my fat fingers on the keyboard.

 

HJ, back to the '32 Peerless V-16 for a second here: I seem to recall reading that the Peerless was rather DIFFERENT from the Caddy and Marmon 16s -- in particular in terms of ALUMINUM being used extensively. Any info on the motor?

 

Not in '35 and '36. The last V-12 was 1934 .The '34 V-12 Auburns looked like '33s. They did not have the new Al Leamy designed '34 body.

 

1934 Auburn V-12 Salon Sedan

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<dl><dt style="font-size: 18px; font-weight: bold; font-stretch: expanded;"><center>1934 Auburn V-12 Salon Cabriolet

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This car was driven by James Cagney in the 1930s film &#8220;The Mayor of Hell.&#8221; It was restored over 20 years ago, and it&#8217;s been certified by the Auburn Cord Duesenberg Club, which means it has its original chassis, engine, and drivetrain.

The Salon model was the top of the line. It&#8217;s powered by a 391-ci 160-hp Lycoming V12 and equipped with a 3-speed transmission, power hydraulic brakes, shocks adjustable by the driver, and a unique and desirable dashboard-controlled Dual Ratio rear axle.

The Dual Ratio provides good acceleration and an overdrive for today&#8217;s freeways. With less than 350 miles since the 1986 restoration, it still has a nicely detailed undercarriage. According to the ACD, from 1934 to 1941, it was owned by Warner Brothers Studio, which produced &#8220;The Mayor of Hell.&#8221; It was then sold and ended up at the Cars of the Stars Museum from 1959 to 1976.

After its restoration, it won multiple awards, scoring 100 points at the 1987 Dearborn CCCA Grand Classic, and a 1st at the 1987 Meadow Brook Concours. This is one of two 1934 Auburn V12 Cabriolets certified by the ACD.

This 1934 Auburn 1250 Salon Cabriolet Review and Buyer's Guide appeared in the July, 2009 Issue of Sports Car Market Magazine.

<table class="Results" align="center" width="180"> <tbody><tr><td colspan="2" style="text-align: center; font-weight: bold; background-color: rgb(168, 0, 35); color: white; font-size: 12px;">Details</td></tr> <tr><td class="tint">Years Produced</td><td>1932&#8211;34</td></tr> <tr><td class="tint">Number Produced</td><td>4 (1934 Cabriolets)</td></tr> <tr><td class="tint">Original List Price</td><td>$1,635; ($26,000 in 2009 dollars)</td></tr> <tr><td class="tint">SCM Valuation</td><td>$115,000&#8211;$175,000</td></tr> <tr><td class="tint">Tune-up Cost</td><td>$2,500, includes valve adjustment </td></tr> <tr><td class="tint">Distributor Caps</td><td>$800</td></tr> <tr><td class="tint">Chassis # Location</td><td>Plate under floor mat on outer side of passenger compartment </td></tr> <tr><td class="tint">Engine # Location</td><td>On above plate and on brass plate, left side of engine above crankcase</td></tr> <tr><td class="tint">Club Info</td><td>Auburn Cord Duesenberg Club 536 McClean Ave. Staten Island, NY 10305-3644 </td></tr> <tr><td class="tint">Website</td><td>click to visit</td></tr> <tr><td class="tint">Alternatives</td><td>1934 Packard V12 coupe-roadster,1934 Cadillac 355D convertible coupe, 1934 Lincoln KB Brunn convertible coupe</td></tr> <tr><td class="tint">Investment Grade</td><td>B</td></tr> </tbody></table>

This car sold for $253,000, including buyer&#8217;s premium, at the Barrett-Jackson Palm Beach, Florida, auction held April 9&#8211;11, 2009.

With a beautiful 100-point restoration done by ACD expert Brian Joseph in 1987, it sold at fair market price. Over the last two years, it had been offered for sale at around $500,000. It was a no-sale at Worldwide&#8217;s Auburn Auction in August 2008, where the estimate was $400,000&#8211;$600,000. The value with this Auburn resides in the V12 engine and the implied rarity of the cabriolet, so let&#8217;s examine the story behind the story, which revolves around E.L. Cord.

And what a story it is. If you think the Chrysler bankruptcy is something new, follow the ups and downs of Auburn in the 1930s.

In the early 1920s, Auburn almost went bankrupt; in fact, from 1920&#8211;24, only 15,717 cars were sold. By 1924, the company&#8217;s storage lots were crammed with unsold cars.

Cord knew that Auburns needed sizzle

Hotshot 29-year-old salesman E.L. Cord thought he knew what to do. The company hired him as a top-level manager, but he set the employment conditions. He demanded that if he succeeded, he&#8217;d get 20% of the profits and complete control of the company. He also won the option to buy the company once it recovered. The partners, on the verge of bankruptcy, took the deal.

Cord knew that his cars needed sizzle. When he took over in 1924, sales had fallen to a critical level, so he gave the 700 cars piling up in Auburn&#8217;s storage yards stylish paint schemes and extra nickel plating. It worked, and he moved the iron. Cord became VP and General Manager, and under his guidance, Auburn concentrated on style. As a result, 1925 sales increased fifteen-fold.

With designs appropriate to the Roaring &#8217;20s, 1929 was Auburn&#8217;s best year, but then the Great Depression hit and 1930 sales were off 35%. But 1931&#8217;s all-new styling by the talented designer Al Leamy was well received, and with attractive pricing the company reported a 159% increase over 1930. Not bad in a year when industry sales were down by half.

By 1932, the company needed something new to stimulate demand. The multi-cylinder wars of the early 1930s saw many companies struggling to keep up with changing technology. Auburn answered this by adopting Lycoming&#8217;s monstrous V12 engine, which featured a 45-degree vee configuration and twin carburetors. The engine weighed 1,096 lb but its 160 hp matched the output of the larger Packard, Pierce-Arrow, and Franklin V12s and easily bested the 135-hp and 125-hp Cadillac and Lincoln V12s.

Still the cheapest 12-cylinder car ever

As a kicker, Columbia Axle contributed a superb Dual Ratio rear axle with 4.54 low and 3.00 high ratios, allowing both great acceleration and low-rpm fast cruising. Four-wheel hydraulic brakes and adjustable shocks were included, and the technology was offered at an incredibly low price&#8212;under $1,000 for a sedan. It remains the cheapest 12-cylinder car ever produced. Comparable Packards and Cadillacs cost over $3,500.

Despite these brilliant innovations, there was little demand. Sales for 1932 were down to 11,000, from 32,000 in 1931&#8212;a 66% drop. But 1933 was even worse, falling to 4,814 cars, and the V12 was dropped for &#8217;34. However, about 225 V12s were assembled, using leftover 1933 engines and bodies.

In an attempt to revive sales, the 8-cylinder cars got Auburn&#8217;s first all-steel bodies and all-new styling in &#8217;34. The styling was controversial; many dealers hated the new cars and the public stayed away. But the 1934 V12s were identical to the 1933s, with conventional wood and steel construction. For some extra jazz, the 1934 V12s were only produced with Salon trim, which had been a $350 option on the Custom of 1933.

While the 1934 V12 cabriolets are undeniably rare, all four built have survived. However, the same body style is available in other years and with engine choices; about 38 V12 cabs were made in 1933 and between 20 and 30 in 1932. So the cabriolet V12 style is not as rare as the catalog implied.

Still, in two and a half years, only about 2,250 V12 Auburns were produced in all six body styles, and survival has not been outstanding. At the last two ACD Festivals in Auburn, Indiana, there were only 24 V12s of all body styles, with only two 1933 and one 1934 V12 cabriolets among 214 cars judged. So, if you fall in love with the &#8217;34 cabriolet body style but don&#8217;t want to pay the price, there are nearly identical predecessors for lesser amounts.

With great acceleration for the period, smooth power from the V12, and capability to keep up with modern traffic, these are desirable Full Classics. Stan Gilliland, the ACD Club historian, who has been restoring Cords and Auburns for many years, believes the cars are greatly underrated, considering their technology.

The magic of the V12 makes the difference

Gilliland estimates the V12 engines may have put out as much as 200 hp, and after he installs a blueprinted and balanced V12 with newer parts like Carrillo rods and Arias pistons, the cars have a top speed close to 100 mph. The same cabriolet body style with the smooth and relatively powerful straight-8 in the same condition as this car normally sells for $80,000&#8211;$100,000, so it&#8217;s the magic of the V12 that commands this price.

At $253,000, the price was perhaps on the high side. In 2007, a 1933 12 cabriolet that was ACD-certified and had won its share of trophies was advertised in the club newsletter for $210,000 (another good reason to join the club of marques you are interested in).

Even at $253,000, this car is still less than half the price of some Packard V12 cabriolets. And V12 Auburns are likely to appreciate; Gilliland had a chance to buy this car in Lancaster, California, in 1976 but turned it down. It was rough and the asking price was only $16,000&#8212;though the market was perhaps half that. But then, how many times have we all done exactly the same thing&#8212;passed on a car for what seemed like too much money back then, only to see it explode in value later?

Even if not a bargain, the relative rarity, drivability, and mechanical uniqueness of this car make it a significant addition to any collection.
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1934 Auburn V-12 Salon 4 Door Sedan

 

1934 Auburn V12 Salon Speedster

 

1934 Auburn V-12 Salon Phaeton

This Auburn Salon Phaeton was part of a matched pair of "His and Hers" Auburns purchased in 1934. "His" was this Phaeton, "Hers" was a Salon Speedster (also at the Gilmore Museum and featured above)

 

1932 Auburn 12 160A Sedan

This Auburn 12-160A Sedan has been driven only 8,800 miles since purchased new in 1932. It is believed to be the lowest milage 12-cylinder Auburn vehicle to exist today. This car is often studied by individuals who are restoring a similiar automobile. The 1932 Auburn 12-160A featured a twelve-cylindered Lycoming engine rated at 160 horsepower. The wheelbase is 132 inches and the car weights 4,615 lbs. Priced as $1,250, the Auburn was a tremendous value for a twelve-cylinder automobile.

 

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]
1932 Auburn V-12 Cabriolet.[/FONT]

 

Al Leamy designed

1934 Auburn 652Y Sedan

 

SunRoof, THAT was a hugely enjoyable read about the later Auburns!

Seems you've worked hard enough today, but when you have the chance can you discuss the FINAL two years of the marque and their stand-out models? Good job here, man!

 

I'm a big fan of the 35/36 Auburns, especially the SC cars. Consider the cool features these cars came with.

1. Supercharged straight 8.
2. Outside exhaust pipes.
3. 2 speed rear end.
4. full gauges with a Tach.
5. Jazzy styling.

Btw, Jim, you need to change the thread title to "Extinct & Rare Makes". The auburns would be pushing the envelope on that but I believe there were only 100 of these speedsters made in 35/36.

 

The Alter car made in my home town of Plymouth Mich. The car pictured was donated to the museum by my grandfathers friend. I believe he was a investor in the company. http://www.altermotorcar.com/

 

So far according to Wikipedia I found this:

Peerless, too, was developing a V16 with help from another ex-Marmon engineer, James Bohannon. The Marmon Sixteen was a 45° engine made almost entirely of aluminum. Like modern engines, it used pressed steel cylinder liners.

One might surmise that the Peerless V-16 is aluminum as well. I know the axles and the HUGE wheels are cast aluminum. ALCOA was involved heavily with the 1932 Prototype so it is entireely possible an aluminum block. The next time I go to the museum I'll confirm.

 

Okay- this is what our Director Al Unrein said in the Detroit News Joyrides Column April 20, 2009

Peerless cars were built here in C-town from 1900 to 1931. The 1932 Peerless with Murphy body in the Crawford collection is one of a kind, Unrein says. A V-16 prototype built by the 31-year-old company just before it went out of business, the '32 Peerless featured a 173-horsepower, 464-CID V-16. Peerless had a long relationship with another Cleveland company, Alcoa, and Peerless used aluminum extensively in the running gear.

That clears it up

 

From Coachbuilt.com

Murphy's experiment with all-metal fabrication attracted the attention of the Aluminum Company of America (ALCOA) who in conjunction with James A. Bohannon, the President of Peerless, commissioned a pair of all aluminum bodies for the prototype V-16 Peerless chassis'. Franklin Hershey's ultra modern body featured a number of innovative features that were initially introduced at the Paris Salon by Count Alexis de Sakhnoffsky and the European coachbuilders, D’Ieteren Freres and Van den Plas. The sedan body featured concealed rain troughs plus doors that extended into the roof - à la Kaiser. Its fenders were highlighted by polished aluminum beading and the vehicle was one of the first to feature windshield wiper motors that were mounted underneath the windshield. Murphy also built a blind quartered Cord L-29 sports sedan sedan with the same type of doors.
According to Hershey, a second body was built for Peerless that was a virtual copy of the first, but with blind rear quarters. Its whereabouts are unknown, but the first aluminum-bodied V-16 can be found in the collection of the Frederick C. Crawford Automotive Collection of the Western Reserve Historical Society's Museum in Cleveland. Reportedly, Peerless’ James A. Bohannon tried to buy the coachworks from Murphy, but the offer was rebuffed.

 

AlsAncle wrote: I'm a big fan of the 35/36 Auburns, especially the SC cars. Consider the cool features these cars came with.

1. Supercharged straight 8.
2. Outside exhaust pipes.
3. 2 speed rear end. (I assume this was not switched from the cockpit?)
4. full gauges with a Tach.
5. Jazzy styling.
Jimi: Al, I agree, in its own way, just as appealing as the, final ACD sister Cords. Years ago, I remember reading that the speedster was intended as a sort of halo model to whip up public excitement for the brand. That said, the company executed intricate bodywork that meant the cars were actually sold at a loss (evocative of the Continental Mark II, no?).

Al: Btw, Jim, you need to change the thread title to "Extinct & Rare Makes". The auburns would be pushing the envelope on that but I believe there were only 100 of these speedsters made in 35/36. I think this has gone its own way, making the original, well-intended title now quite inaccurate. Somebody please school me as to how to get the thread re-titled with HAMB editors.

Maybe "Extinct, Near-Extinct & Very Rare U.S. Makes & Models" would be more fitting??? VOTE, guys, and we'll try & get this done.
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