Hot Rods Rack&Pinion

Heres the other thread.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=426576

There has been NO discussion on any of these threads involving you...you wouldn't allow it.

Anyone can go back and look at my posts to see what was said by me...and all my posts remain just as they were posted. Take note of post times and the times of any editing. If there is any editing in my posts they will have been in a timely manner to correct a spelling mistake or to clairify something.

Several times you've either called me a liar or made the suggestion offhandedly. Thats nasty and pretty low...and here YOU'VE been making and removing posts as you feel like it, and there are witnesses to that fact.
I'm not sure what that suggests...more spindoctoring maybe?
Regardless...

Heres post (8) on this thread...your first.

 

Cross steering applies a lateral force to the axle via the drag link, thus providing the potential to displace the axle or ch***is sideways relative to each other through movement in the shackles. There's no denying that statement. There are a couple of ways to counter act it. Using spring shackle preload or a panhard rod is the historical method. Without those measures, the answer is yes.

Bob

 

It's my habit to delete something after it has been quoted by somebody else. It's boring to read the same post three or four times when it's been quoted already. It's still all there.

Yes, I’m guilty of a few Off Topic posts myself, and I chimed in when I knew it was not traditional hot rod material. I just don’t feel the need to continue with this distraction.

It's pretty well covered in my post, #10, of this thread.

 

Post deletion aside, please explain how a beam axle and spindle arrangement this system would not bumpsteer with a steering mechanism that changes it's virtual length through its jounce and rebound.

crude table napkin drawings are permitted.

I have shown a system that I think would be fairly common to this type of installation. This does have a significant amount of toe change (bumpsteer) and I cannot find a sweet spot to put the rack in to minimize it. The only thing that does reduce the amount of toe change is to limit suspension travel to 0.

 

Usually if I offer advice on a known subject and the other person says I'm still wrong I tell them to go ahead and build it. It's not my time wasted, plus I get some grins in the end. Batter Up!.....

 

And some, like myself, enjoy theory and learning. Sometimes it's ugly and cantankerous but it is the way things improve in this world.

 

Couldn't agree with you more, now how's the weather out there?

 

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Pretty nice today! Miss having my bikes together and running.

 

Thanks ELpolacko for taking the time and trouble to illustrate for the terminally uninformed the reasons why this is not a good idea - other than that, way too much drama going on here....

 

You are right.

 

29nash, can we at least see a picture of your steering setup and put all this to bed?

 

You guys who understand and take the time to explain suspension geometry are very much appreciated here! I can always learn more about what seems to be a very simple design, but really can be done wrong without knowledge.

 

No. I guess I failed to make that clear, it's Proprietary. I guess I got so caught up in the at***ude by some that I have to "prove" what I say or it's unbelieveable.

The offer for a ride and a look, (sans-camera) is still open.

 

Fair enough. I guess that there's really nothing left to be said about it, other than I hope you can market your idea and be successful with it.

 

Actually finding the Colt R&P should only be as far as your nearest auto parts store. They'll likely have to order it from the warehouse but it shouldn't take more than a few hours or a couple of days if you're in the country.

 

Nice cop-out,

 

With all the time you spent on here, you could have installed one like this.

 

yup, that is about the only way to do it. I hear those aren't that great on cars with some girth to them, get a bit heavy at the wheel.

 

Quite so. Not unexpected.

For a bump-steer guage, simple rig up the following: Two pieces of plywood, 18 inches square (more if you have Dubs) and thick enough to not bend easily. Connect them with a piano hinge. One will rest on the ground, weighted by something heavy (ex: battery). The other will have two holes, equa-distant from the lower edge, and spaced so that two bolts inserted and fastened to the ply will touch the wheel rim 180º apart and parallel to the ground. Place so that the upright, with it's two bolts will rest against the wheel and both bolts touch the wheel rim. Now, jack up that wheel about 1/2 inch and check if the bolts still touch the rim. If not, you have bump steer. You may subs***ute a dial indicator for one bolt, then you will have a direct measurement of the amount of bump steer.

The above is from "How To Make Your Car Handle" by Fred Puhn, page 88-9, available at Amazon.com, just click on the ***le above.

Cosmo

 

Hey Nash;
Proprietary= secret & unshared.
Not a very H.A.M.B. like at***ude!
Bill.

 

Not necessarily. It could mean "Oops, I have no idea what I am talking about, I've been called out, now how the Hell am I going to get out of this one - I KNOW!!! I'll call it 'Proprietary'. Most of these guys probably don't know what that word means!"

Just sayin'

Cosmo

 

After looking at Elpolackos schematics, it is totally obvious that a frame mounted rack would only work if all the planets aligned. After my friend installed his on the tube axle, I put one on my 36 Chevy beam with some home-made brackets. I used the same COLT rack that he did but I had to rethread the inner ends to narrow it up a bit. The problem that I had was that I was running 69 Chevy van spindles on the 36 axle and the geometry was off. The turning radius was goofy kinda like " GIVE ME 40 ACRES AND I'LL TURN THIS RIG AROUND" kind stuff. I suppose if I would have heated and bent the arms to correct the ackerman it would have worked but I ended up putting a Vega box in it and then converting to a FATMAN front end , but thats a whole nuther story. Anyways, I dont think a rack weighs so much that it would mess up the unsprung weight of the front end and as long as a good slip joint is incorporated in the steering shaft, it should work great and give long service. Mike

 

I designed and built it. I get a kick out of building stuff myself. Some of the features are unique. What makes it work good without bump steer is my property. It took a couple of weeks to put it all together, another week of road tests and tweeking. Have driven it 13,600 miles since I put it on. I don't get all flustered by lame-brained bluffing and innuendo. Ask for a picture once, that's acceptable. Ask twice knowing I won't do it, that's nagging like a whining *****. Going further and saying I'm copping out is the same as calling me a liar.

For anybody that wants a ride and are going to be in my neck of the woods, even if it's just for an hour layoveer at the Colo Springs airport, I can pick you up and take you around the block. Send me a pm and let me know when that's going to be. I'm retired, wrenchin' on my jalopies, out and about almost every day.

You can even ride in my more traditional, Nash hot rod.

 

Thank you Nash,
and also thanks to everybody else who has given their input on this Thread.


There should be enough Info here, so Bart Wilkinson can decide which setup would be the right one for his car....