History We ALL Love a DARE! PIX of TRULY Extinct Makes?

This is an experimental 1925 Pierce Arrow with an aluminum Alcoa body




When you can reduce the weight of your production vehicle by nearly 20 percent and suffer no ill effects, what do you get? Today, you’d get a raise, promotion, commendation from the governor and a ticker-tape parade. In the 1920s, you’d get little more than a “good show, Johnson.”

Such was the case with the 16 or 18 experimental aluminum-bodied cars that Alcoa and Pierce-Arrow jointly built between 1920 and 1926. They effectively reduced the weight of Pierce-Arrow’s behemoths from more than 3,700 pounds to slightly more than 3,000, but economic forces kept the experiment just that.

 

I thought something looked odd with that aluminum '25 Pierce-Arrow. The headlights. I guess welding on the headlight buckets to the fenders in aluminun was difficult considering only 16 aluminum bodied built. Maybe Pierce-Arrow did not have a welder who can weld aluminum or the aluminum would not form into the bucket.



<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="90%" align=center><TBODY><TR><TD class=tdbackground><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=4 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD class=tdbackground colSpan=2><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>1925 Pierce-Arrow Series 80 Roadster </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


1925 Pierce-Arrow Experimental All-Aluminum Sedan

<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=4 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD class=tddetails vAlign=top width="10%" align=left>Description: </TD><TD class=tddetails align=left>1925 Pierce-Arrow Experimental All-Aluminum Sedan
Since the early days of the automobile, aluminum has been used for car bodies and other components, yet the first serious attempt at building an "all-aluminum" car didn't happen until the early Twenties. In an attempt to convince the auto industry to utilize more aluminum, the Aluminum Company of America (ALCOA) decided "seeing is believing" and built 16 experimental cars.
Built in cooperation with Pierce-Arrow, this unrestored original example is powered by a six-cylinder aluminum engine, has an aluminum body, and a cast aluminum frame and front axle. The wheels, brake system, steering apparatus, and transmission are also fabricated almost entirely of aluminum.
The only known survivor, this car was used by ALCOA president Arthur Davis until 1944 when he donated it to the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, Michigan who has graciously loaned the car to the Gilmore Car Museum.
The gold tone of the car is caused by the aging of its protective lacquer coating.
Engine: 6-cylinder
Horsepower: 75
Weight: 3,045 lbs
Wheelbase: 130 inches
Total Produced: 11 (Aluminum 6-cylinder) </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

While we're on a Pierce-Arrow tangent let us consider who their end users
might have been.For your consideration I give you a 1921 Pierce-Arrow "wrecker"...







and since I was digging through this album how bout a 1 of 1 bus?
AFAIK Mack is still in business but this is the only bus they ever made...






Granted this is really a stretch for this thread so if your any more curious just google the license plate MV 620 for more info.

 

Ramblur said "AFAIK Mack is still in business but this is the only bus they ever made..."

Huh??

The first vehicle Mack built was a bus.



1900 -1960
Mack produced many different types and models of buses from the first Mack produce in 1900 until 1960. Over 22,000 units were built as school, transit, suburban, or intercity buses. Buses were also used as mobile post offices, sheriff's units, or medical x-ray vehicles, both for hospital type x-rays or track x-rays in subway systems.

John Mack and his brothers were hard at work setting the pace for an entirely new mode of commercial transportation. In the spirit of these other great pioneers, John Mack had a vision -- to produce the most durable and powerful heavy-duty trucks and engines in the world. The innovative designs and products he created began a tradition of innovation that has continued to this day.
John Mack had already spent years researching and experimenting with his own design for a motorized wagon by the time he and his brothers opened their first bus manufacturing plant in 1900. The work paid off the same year, when the brothers introduced their first successful vehicle -- a 40-horsepower, 20-passenger bus. The Mack bus, built for sightseeing concessionaire Harris and McGuire, operated in Brooklyn's Prospect Park for eight years before being converted into a truck. The vehicle racked up a million miles of service, the first in a long line of Mack vehicles to do so. The success and acceptance of "Old No. 1" initiated a history of truck development unparalleled in the industry, and established a company whose reputation for tough, high-quality products has since become "part of the language."

 

Exactly how misinformation gets started...I obviously misread the info there,
maybe they just built one of this model. Sorry for that.

 

Don't be sorry- That is one of the things this thread is for. If you read through the thread you will see that alot of statements are questioned and either are proven or disproven. You honestly thought Mack just made one bus. All of us posters but especially the regulars learn something new on a regular basis. Keep joining in the fun.

 

HJ said: That is one of the things this thread is for. If you read through the thread you will see that alot of statements are questioned and either are proven or disproven. All of us posters but especially the regulars learn something new on a regular basis. Keep joining in the fun.

Jimi adds: AMEN to that! If everybody already knew all the interesting details of some 2,000 defunct makes and a century of U.S. auto history, lore and literature, then this thread wouldn't even exist -- much less have a thousand posts and over 30,000 views. As HJ says, everybody with a question or something to contribute, jump in!<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

 

The 1900 Mack bus made me nostaligic for this Stanley "Mountain Bus"
I saw a while back!


1915 Stanley Mountain Wagon, Model 820, owned and maintained by the Friends
of Auburn Heights Preserve, Yorklyn, Delaware (www.auburnheights.org/ ). The
preserve is home to at least a dozen fully operational Stanley vehicles.


From another source, this photo seems to raise more questions
than it answers! (Note the headlamps, too!)

 

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1925 White Model 15-45 Bus (Yellowstone Park bus) ​

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In the Crawford Auto-Aviation Museum collection. Great runner too.

 

<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=738><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top background=/images/crawford/bg_content.gif width=546>1925 White Bus
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Listen to the 1925 White Bus​

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HJ;

Thanks for the additional picture of the Aluminum 1925 Pierce Arrow. Actually, there were people that did not like the Pierce Arrow Headlamps and ordered Pierce Arrows with regular Headlamps. I've seen a few. Am looking forward to the 2010 Pierce Arrow Nationals in Rochester Minnesota. Last one in Minnesota was 1992.

 

This is a 1913 Cadillac Wrecker. It was built in 1946 by The Ernest Holmes Co. to replicate the first Holmes wrecker ever. The fellow who owns it owns Twin City Wrecker in St. Paul and spent a day bidding against another fellow for it.

After Dick won the bid, the other fellow said if he would of known who he was bidding against, he would of let Dick have the Wrecker. Dick says "I would of got it a lot cheaper too" and not spent all day bidding against the other guy.

These are pictures I took;

 

1913 Ernest Holmes Number One wrecker
1913 Cadillac with the first Holmes wrecker, bought from Gerry Holmes and restored by TCWS '92-'94

From;

http://www.tcwreckersales.com/Gallery.aspx

 

The towing industry was born in 1916 in the city of Chattanooga, after Ernest Holmes, Sr., a native Chattanoogan, helped a friend retrieve his car with three poles, a pulley and a chain hooked to the frame of a 1913 Cadillac. After patenting his invention, Holmes began manufacturing wreckers and towing equipment for sale to automotive garages and anyone interested in retrieving and towing wrecked or disabled autos. His first manufacturing facility was a small shop on Market Street, just a few blocks from the museum.

Holmes&#8217; business grew as the auto industry expanded and eventually its products earned a worldwide reputation for their quality and performance. Ernest Holmes, Sr. died in 1943, and was succeeded by his son. Ernest Holmes, Jr. ran the company until he retired in 1973. That year the company was sold to the Dover Corporation. That same year the founder&#8217;s grandson, Gerald Holmes, left the company and started a new one, Century Wreckers. He built his manufacturing facility in nearby Ooltewah, Tennessee, and quickly rivaled the original company with his hydraulically powered wreckers.

Eventually, assets of both companies were bought by Miller Industries, which also bought other wrecker manufacturers. Miller has retained the Century facility in Ooltewah where both Century and Holmes wreckers are presently manufactured. Miller also makes Challenger wreckers.

Ads are from 1922, 1930, and 1949

 

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The White Model 706 Tour bus was developed specifically for sightseeing in the National Park System of the United States of America. In 1935, four manufacturing companies agreed to participate in product evaluations at Yosemite National Park to determine the best vehicle for touring in western national parks. Note the similarity between the DeVaux grill and the the White Model 706 grill.

The transition from horse drawn carriages to internal combustion engine powered coaches had already taken place, but no standard had ever been established with regard to seating capacity or power requirements. Early passenger vehicles in the parks were often underpowered or simply did not carry enough passengers. All of the participating vehicles were loaded with sandbags to simulate passenger weight and driven the same course throughout Yosemite National Park. The White Model 706, with its longer wheelbase and powerful 318 cubic inch 6 cylinder engine outperformed all of the other entries and was clearly the favorite. The styling of the White Model 706 did not go unnoticed. The radiator cowling and grill were the design of the renowned Count Alexis de Sakhnoffsky, a Russian immigrant whose designs had been used on the Packard, the Cord, and the DeVaux automobiles among others. The Bender Body Company had designed and built the coach body with the design influence of Herman Bender and F.W. Black, president of White Motor Company.
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The Yellowstone Bus - Yellow & Black[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1] Yellowstone ordered 27 of the Model 706's for the 1936 season and by 1940, there were 98 Model 706's at Yellowstone. There were only subtle changes made to the styling of the Model 706 in 1938 and 1939. (Note the square-cornered windshields of the 1936.) The older Yellowstone fleet was gradually phased out and the Model 706's were used until the mid 1960's when the remaining buses were sold. Generally the Yellowstone buses were sold whenever they needed major repairs. Many never rolled again.
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]A privately owned Yellowstone Bus.
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1] The Skagway Streetcar Company of Skagway, Alaska assembled a fleet of eight units, buying them from private owners. The buses were used in Skagway until 2001 when they were sold to Yellowstone National Park for restoration, exhibition, and tour duty. Skagway story Another two modernized Yellowstone Buses remain in daily service with Historic Battlefield Bus Tours of Gettysburg, Pennsylvania. Most of the Yellowstone buses have been accounted for. Museums and private collectors own several.
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1] The Glacier Park "Jammer" - Red & Black[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1] Glacier National Park purchased 35of the Model 706's between 1936 and 1940.The White Model 706's saw continuous service in Glacier except for 1943-1946 due to World War II. In 1989 the fleet was upgraded to modern specifications including power steering and automatic transmission. The entire fleet was temporarily removed from service in 1999 because of chassis metal fatigue and cracking. "Jammers" awaiting restoration in east Glacier, Montana.

The fleet was retrofitted with an entirely new running gear, completely refurbished, and returned to service for the 2002 season. In keeping with modern clean air standards, the 8 cylinder engines of the current fleet of 33 units can operate on either propane or gasoline. One unit, #78, was never modernized and is stored at the East Glacier, Montana garage facility. The White Model 706's used in Glacier National Park are called "Reds". The tour guide drivers have come to be called "Gear Jammers" or "Jammers", reminiscent of the time when the original gear boxes, requiring double clutching, could often be heard as they were jammed into gear. While today's drivers are still called "Jammers", with automatic transmissions being used in the fleet, the drivers are in reality simply "shiftless". [/SIZE][/FONT]

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Railroad historian John Schmale: “Stanley Steamers” Filled in the Ocean Shore’s 26-Mile “Gap”
February 26, 2009 at 10:24 am · Filed under Uncategorized
Story by John Schmale
[Image: During its first year of service: Ocean Shore Railroad-owned Stanley Steamer "Number One" awaits a southbound passenger train at the northern division railhead at Tunitas Creek. At Tunitas, passengers boarded the sporty steam car for a thrilling 26- mile run through the railless "Gap" to the Ocean Shore Railroad's southern division railhead at Swanton. The 26- mile trip took five hours, with six scheduled stops. (Bob Gray photo: courtesy Rick Hamman.]

Stanley Steamers of the Ocean Shore Railroad
By John Schmale​

After 1900, electric railroad schemes surfaced in every part of California-some well conceived, some, ill conceived. Some were very successful-most were not. One sad story was that of the, ill fated, Ocean Shore Railway. Its backers were all very well known and wealthy San Franciscans.
The plan was to run a double track electric railroad, from San Francisco, along the Pacific Ocean, some 83 miles, to the seaside town of Santa Cruz-a town known for beautiful beaches and its redwood timber industry. The ultra-powerful Southern Pacific Railroad already served the town. Ocean Shore backers were certain that a fast electric line, offering beautiful ocean scenery and reduced running time could siphon off tourist and freight business from the SP.
Incorporated on May 18, 1905, the Ocean Shore Railway began construction at several key points along the line including Devils Slide and Mussel Rock bluffs. Much of the construction equipment and manpower was focused on blasting roadbed from near-vertical cliffs. In one place, a single charge containing 450 tons of black powder was exploded, tossing an entire mountaintop into the Pacific Ocean. For the next several months construction went as planned. The future couldn’t have looked brighter.
Early morning on April 18, 1906, the famous disaster that befell San Francisco did not spare the Ocean Shore Railway. At Mussel Rock Bluffs, earthquake shockwaves sent Ocean Shore’s steam shovel, and other equipment, crashing from a high cliff to the beach below. Several miles of twisted, broken, and sagging track would have to be rebuilt. Equipment in San Francisco suffered as well, but the most severe damage was done to bank accounts of the line’s directors. Their investments focused on San Francisco businesses and real estate. The financial panic that followed the earthquake and fire meant that plans to double-track the system would be shelved, and so would electrification. The exception was an electric-only portion of tracks in San Francisco required by city franchise. Steam locomotives ran over the rest of the line.
Construction resumed at a slow pace. By 1909, the northern-division had advanced southward, to Tunitas Creek, while construction on the south end pushed northward from Santa Cruz to Swanton, leaving a gap of 26 miles. A horse drawn stage line bridged this gap.
With state-funded road improvements beginning in 1913, the partially completed railroad had now to compete with private trucks, autos, and jitneys, that cut into the railroad’s traffic of sand, rock, vegetables, artichokes, picnic-trains, and a limited San Francisco commute business. All construction halted.
In an effort to offer swift through service from San Francisco to Santa Cruz, Ocean Shore Railroad’s, offshoot-corporation, the Ocean Shore Auto Stage Company, in March 1914, purchased a shinny, new, Stanley Steamer bus. It was a twelve-passenger, thirty-horsepower, Mountain Wagon. [Image: Stanley Steamer "Number Two," a 12-passenger Mountain Wagon with the top up, posed near a creek between Ocean Shore Railroad railheads. Milk cans tied to the running boards of the bus may have been full of trout for planting in local streams. Another explanation is the cans are simply full of water to feed the Stanley's thirsty boiler. (Rudy Brandt Collection)
The bus was placed in service on April 1, 1914. Two trains per day connected with the new auto stage line at Tunitas. Through-passengers boarded the southbound Stanley Steamer for the towns of San Gregorio, Pescadero, Pigeon Point, Gazos, and Waddell, connecting in Swanton with the southern-division trains to Santa Cruz. Northbound passengers boarded the buses in Swanton for the reverse trip.
Due to the popularity of the auto service, a second Stanley Mountain Wagon was delivered on June 10, 1914. [Image: The popular Stanley Steamer headed for Swanton where passengers going to Santa Cruz boarded the Southbound Ocean Shore train. For the traveling public the steamers were a welcome relief from the stagecoaches they replaced. Bob Gray and Harry Staples ran the "Ocean Shore Auto Stage Company." (John Schmale Collection.]
This proved to be a timely purchase, for the following two winters were wet, disastrous, and costly for the, already impoverished railroad. Heavy rains caused washouts and slides along miles of the cliff-hugging roadbed. The entire northern division was closed from January 15, 1915, through March 2, 1915. The two Stanley Steamers saved the day by ferrying passengers, mail, and express packages from Swanton and Tunitas over thirty-five miles of torturous, muddy, mountain roads to San Francisco. Their franchise allowed the steamers to run only between Ocean Shore railroad’s terminal at Tunitas and its Southern division terminal at Swanton. However, during this emergency operation the rules were overlooked.
This scenario was repeated the following year when the Railroad was again shut down. During the severe rainy winter of 1916 the steamers ran at full tilt, until one blew a boiler. The company had a new boiler expressed from Denver and the vehicle was down for less than a week. The stage company missed only one day of mail delivery.
The two Stanley Steamers continued to provide reliable daily service to Ocean Shore Railroad patrons until the permanent closure of the railroad on August 17, 1920.
Because the rail service ended suddenly, the steamers were again allowed to carry mail, passengers and light freight from stranded coast side communities into San Francisco. Former Ocean Shore Railroad employees, Jim Gray, and Harry Staples, who had operated the buses for the railroad, continued the same service on an emergency basis. On January 14, 1921, the California State Railroad Commission granted them a permanent license. It is not known when the bus service ended or what became of the two Stanley Steamers. Research is ongoing.

 

Towing and Recovery Museum and Hall of Fame pictures here:
http://rides.webshots.com/album/563268411uVcmjm

I went down 2 years ago, Chatanooga is a great place to visit, really liked the museum. A friend of mine's son is memorialized there. They have a memorial for those who have lost their lives in the towing and recovery business. He was killed by a drunk driver while responding to a breakdown job.

 

1951 Chev Sedan Delux converted over a 20 year period by Athol Jonas in
Auckland New Zealand. I acquired this car 10 years ago.
The system is based on Doble Model F layout. Monotube boiler, quartz
rod control, twin cylinder compound BLSP 60hp design (F style engine).
Home built with some Stanley, White and Doble parts. Nick name is
(Black Betty).

I guess you call this an assembled car much like the ones in the teens and twenties.

 

Enjoyed the exchange on the roots of the towing/wrecker business. Hard to think there was a long time there with breakdown-PRONE cars and no routine vehicles to retrieve them for repair!

I'd read many or most early wreckers were heavy touring cars with wrecker rigs mounted where the rear body had been. NOW I know WHO was the primary inventor others followed AND WHEN he got a good start on these much-needed devices!

 

SunRoof, I guess I am one of those who never cared much for the Pierce headlamps. They seemed contrived and ill fitting to my eye. But, even a novice wouldn't take long to begin to recognize Pierce Arrows, would they? And, at least Pierce was trying to transtion away from the overpowering SIZE of the two can-like things that obtruded even the loveliest grilles of early days!

 

HJ, that's gratifying to see that Jonas mainly followed the Doble design on converting his Chevy! The Models E and F were the epitome of Doble's technological development. And their features even bested Stanley's best. Start-up time was a fraction of that of other steam cars, acceleration and top speed were untouchable, as was RANGE on a single water full-up, due to inclusion of a practical unit to REUSE water, rather than letting it drift away as steam.

Too bad the Doble brothers were not businessmen and marketers, just perfectionist engineers! But, I think what goes around comes around, and steam will again see its day.

 

My Great-Grandmother just passed away, she and her husband had restored a 1917 Pathfinder Touring Coupe. The car is still in my family and is one of two known to still exist. The other was part of Harrah's collection before he died. I am unsure of its whereabouts now. I will post pics as soon as I have them scanned.

There was talk of Pathfinder on page 42 of this thread BTW. Sorry for the random post.

 

My condolences and sorry to hear of your loss.

 

GreasyGuy, I am very glad your great-grandmother lived to be a great-grandmother. She was blessed with long life, and you with her continued presence. We are all in this world together, and without exception everyone endures loss and grief. God bless.

Surely sounds as though your great-grandparents left something special behind. I'll look forward to a photo or two, when you have the opportunity.

 

Peace on Earth, fellow HAMB brothers & sisters.
It has been a wonderfully enjoyable year, thanks to finding the HAMB.
I wish you all well in the coming New Year! -- Jimi


Thanks again, Frankie, for locating this exquisite winter photo.
It, seemingly, shows that something beautiful can come, even
out of a sad junkyard tableaux of our beloved vintage tin in
the eternal, perhaps inevitable embrace of Mother Nature.

 

Six-wheelers revisited

In the late forties Indy racing had seen a hideous contraption called the Pat Clancy Special, raced by Billy DeVore in 1948. This was a 4WD machine with power going to two rear axles. It was amazingly quick in a straightline but impossible to get around corners - of which Indianapolis has four.






Billy DeVore Pat Clancy '48 Indy 500




JackieHolmes49Indy500

 

Cool Junkyard Picture
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This is perhaps the cutest Christmas photo going around for the year 2009

Please spread throughout the world for everyone to see, so that maybe ....

Just maybe, someday our world will be as peaceful as this.

Merry Christmas ...and a Happy New Year



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Sorry for your loss. Your very lucky have of known your Great Grand Parents. I can vaguely remember one of my Great Grand Grandfathers who passed when I was six, a long long time ago.

There must be more then two Pathfinders still existing as there was a Touring car floating around Minnesota for years and I don't believe that it came or went to Harrahs. I'll have to see if I can find some pictures of it.

Did the National Auto Museum keep the Pathfinder and if not, where is it now???? I also would love to see a picture of your familys Pathfinder Coupe.

 

Well, as an unexpected bonus, I went to the Plymouth Historical Museum today and got some pix of the Alter. They are on my cell phone, so I will have to convert them later. It's an interesting engine, with compression releases on the cylinder head like a John Deere.

Merry Christmas everyone, and Happy New Year!

JK