Had to resort to this to answer questions for everyone, I'll probably have to resort to going back to page one to retract/change some stuff OK, to bemuse myself I think that when it is done i'll play around with the idea in the future ONCE THE CAR IS DONE! for now I can dream, gather info and create a laundry list of contacts, parts needed and ideas concerning the general engineering thereof, changing ideas and the evolution of making something that has nothing to do with money. sometimes the ends don't always satisfy the means but thats half the damned fun of it. Oh, and I like the way yall wait till I'm offline to make all the postings. NEXT
I will install the wiring harness, I could mak it myself but it wouldn't be "OEM" and my dreams of ever going to the MOPAR nationals and placing will be beyond reach "I don't plan to take the car there but if I decide to sell the car, it's a selling point" there are currently no wires in this car "tweakers got to it and stole all of the copper out of it but left the generator" the rest of the prices are about on except for the paint, which I already have and I'm doing all of the body work and have everything needed to do it as well. I really need to get shop manuals for this thing unless there is a pdf one online somewhere.
Kevin, your interest in the 215-265 Hemi 6 is great but these are just essentially a vertical slant 6 with little in the way of a true hemi, but they are longer than the slant 6 and therefore even more of a hassle fitting into where a flathead six used to live......why not go with what a few of the others have suggested and update the flathead......I am building this 230 engine for my 41 Plymouth Coupe using an Edgy Finned Head, twin carb Offy intake, split stock exhaust manifolds and a few other things......you could also run Fenton Cast Iron Headers, a Don Langdon HEI Distributor and even the Finned Beehive Oil Filter.......all these things are currently available, will work and add both show & go to the Plymouth.......I've attached a couple of pics of my 41 Coupes engine bay at present, its in need of a tidy up but shows the HEI & Beehive, plus a pics of the mocked up engine with the Edgy Head, etc.......regards, good luck and a Happy,Safe New Year.....andyd
I have indeed thought of that there is a guy, lives up in ventura county, i think that I met at a pomona auto show he has a couple of longblocks for sale and heads that need rebuilt, they are a little longer but I don't think it would be an issue couple of inches at best could probably re-weld/move the motor mounts to compensate, that is if "big if " I decide to do it. mock it up audi style "as they mount their engines as far forward as possible to make for more leg room", just move the whole thing forward. There would be room cause I would use an lectric fan and aftermarket radiator if I did it.
OK, again, I plan, right now, to simply rebuild the 230 and do a resto mod on the savoy you can't go by the first page of this post, as it is before I leaned a great deal. I pulled the engine because three of the six pistons need to be replaced at minimum "wish I had pix" the idea to put a screamin crazu coocked up dream engine is just my imagination running wild here on the hamb I only really want to change a few things 1:brakes 2: light engine mods and lastly to convert the system to 12v pretty much everything else will stay the same, hell for shits and giggles I may just throw in an alternator. The only reason I had it refurbished and changed in the first place is because I didn't know any better. The sponsor thing is STILL a running joke just so everyone understands I do, in fact, enjoy working on my car/s I get great satisfaction from knowing that I did/fucked it up and if I did it right I know I did it good and not half assed. One of my personal flaws is I do, in fact, get well ahead of myself I have that minds eye thing going on, If you only could meet me in person all of your fears would go away. I can already se the project finished and since this is a first like this it is a little obscure all of the litle things that can go wrong "I lack that real-world experience" thank you for your concern I'll be the first to admit that I am wrong, I mean. I have the limited knowledge here. Happy New Year guys, Kevin
Hey Kevin - Dude, part of the problem is that you are just all over the place. One minute you are restoring the car for the MoPar Nationals, the next you are installing a 12 volt system and an alternator. Let's not even get into the space ship cylinder head. If the issue is that you don't know what you want, and you simply want to chew it over with the crew, no problemo. Just say so. Every time you make a statement, you have HAMB people in good faith trying to answer you. Like Rich, a very credible race car builder, giving you engine advice. Where you gonna get that? Five minutes later you start backtracking on something else. That can come across as a slap in the face for those who are in good faith takiong the time to anwer your questions. That's why things are getting flaky, like why you have been both flamed and had jokes made at your expense. So, either select a game plan for your car and let's discuss it OR just come right out and say that you are thinking through several different scenarios. I think you will find everyone more forthcoming. One last thing - once you cross 1,000 posts, the admins give HAMB members administrative control of your web cam, so indeed we do know when you are offline. We are watching you. BTW would you mind cleaning up that mess??
Man, I'm ashamed of many of you guys. Son, if you are serious about an overhead coversion for your flattie, contact Earl Edgerton. He is close to haveing a comercially available OHV conversion. Doesn't use a slant 6 head, but his stuff is Bonneville proven. http://www.edgyspeedshop.com/contact.html Don't let a bunch of fellows that may not belive it can be done try to take your dream. I run a 230 in a 58 Plymouth and Mr Edgerton was a bit tough to track down, but he is the only place I've found currently making new aluminum replacement heads for our engine. Send me an PM if you are interested and I'll help you. Semper Fi Buddy, I was at 29 Stumps in the mid 70's at my A school.
you guys are old but I wasn't aware that you were uneducated, in other words can't read. Quit skimming my FUCKING POSTS AND READ THEM!
Check the last post on this one, the important stuff was highlighted for light/incapable readers. The idea is as posted above, I plan to rebuild/restore the car with a few exceptions, once again, as posted above. I have to keep back tracking due to wild comments about older posts of those who haven't read and cought up with the current situation, I have not given up on the idea of modifying an inline six but not for this car Why am I doing this since when have I cared about making things easier for stupid people who don't take the time to truly understand the situation by reading all of the way through *done ranting* Yes I would love to CHEW IT OVER WITH THE CREW but as just an idea not as something that I want to put into this particular car. I am here because originally I was told that the best and brightest are here, while I understand that there are apparently a lot of trolls here too who are just pissing me off with their mindless banter. I apologize if I offended anyone but I really just want to get to the build, thats it! Thanks everyone who has posted so far and genuinely tried to help and has replied with useful feedback. Know, also , that I have read every word and have, in fact, committed it to my very serious consideration. Once agian, I will be the first to admit when I am wrong, and highly value constructive criticism, but put yourself in my shoes, I feel as if I am being attacked, and as a Marine...... well we all know how that ends tanks everyone and have a great and very happy new year, Kevin
This is my favorite post so far, and as such I'll humor it. I can understand the questioning, there are A LOT OF PRETENDERS OUT THERE BEWARE! these broken ladders *gattatca reference* as I call them like to take the accolades given to our brothers in the armed forces and the perks too. To answe the question they would not send a first term shitbag to k18 MCCES schools to impress upon entry level Marines. For those not into the jargon you dont send an unreliable guy to train and have a heavy influence on marines who just graduated boot camp. I was an instructor there for just over two years I have been in since sept 03' no trouble, just bad luck and no gimmes/ cocksucking I am currently in 3LAR and loving it. I very much enjoyed my time at the schools, my workday didn't end at 1630 everyday, my responsibility was great, I had to turn knownothing young dumb and fulla cum Marines into better people, Marines, and Citizens. We had a motto where I used to work "completeing the transformation" it meant that no matter what they leaned and no matter how they learned if we had to retrain them then that is what we'd do to keep them alive safe and altogether better. SEE: "oath of enlistment" I tend to take myself very seriously, and also all that I endeavor, so If I get agitated or offended there is a reason, and also know that it isn't a good idea to swat at a wasps nest "I leaned that lesson the hard way as a boy" Read the whole post brother, you will find the answers that will satisfy your convicting urge. God bless and Semper FI, Kevin
I heard about edgys cam grinding service, and I'd like to know how to contact him, Thanks Always wanted to go to bonneville just to see the conversion is a little ways down the road but I would love to talk more about it. A complete one-off isn't it? real old timer from what I heard on p-15 d-24
If you have a question that doesn't have to do with the build/resto mod njust PM me I can answer all of your questions. and you don't have to try to make me look like a poser. If I was in fact not what I say that I am then I would have been long gone by now with my tail tucked between my legs. If you really have doubts come meet me, I am a friendly guy after all "besides the killing part" I really can't make this stuff up guys, I think it was said best when "the truth is often stranger than fiction"
Hey ninkid, my 47,48,49thru 72 or so reference was a reference to a johnnie cash song that was a joke about him building his own cadillac out of parts that he stole from the assembly line. He took the parts home in his lunchbox over a period of many years. "One fender had one headlight, and the other had two,- thats when I noticed that we only had one tailfin..." Check it out, it's very entertaining.... I didn't say that he didn't endorse any dodge or plymouth and that ad looked pretty neat. I'll have to take time to look at it some time. Now you mentioned most everyone taking you too seriously when you were just "floating ideas out there," but 9 months ago I recall you saying something like...."I know what I'm gonna do, and I don't need anyone telling me that it cant be done!, no negativity needed, I will only accept positive support and praise of what I want to and will do! Just because no one else has ever been able to achieve it before, I will.....Now I need people to show me how to do so. "(Jump hamb people, jump for me now!!) Don't be so quick to act like the world is ganging up on you for no reason. Also I hope you are able to take this all with a grain of salt and that you aren't really that thin skinned. Now if that speed guy really does have this here overhead conversion i'm sure we'd all love to see it. Most all of us worship something known as the "ardun flathead" which were overhead valve hemi heads for henrys v-8. as for people posting after you log off, I don't recall you ever posting business hours. as for me, it's past my bedtime.... Edit... That over head conversion looks neat...get some cutaway drawings for us..(PLEASE) p.s. that shiny aluminum head goody motor was my origional suggestion. Thats very cool!!!
Nah, not thin skinned. I must admit it is nice to talk with some like minded people though. I had posted other places and met with bad reactions, just defending myself and preparing for the WCS, also I still had a lot to learn, and was very rude to the community for that I must apologize. No harm done, all in good clean fun *adds nails to bat" now come a little closer, I wanna show ya somethin. I had to change a few things based on the experience gained, hindsight being what it was I should have cut the laziness and started a new thread.
I got a good look at the site sponsors and like what I see, prolly join the alliance next payday. Changed some of my personal details and got settled in, I'm here for the long haul.
OK, let me get wrapped around this. You have been in the Corps for seven years, are a Radio Technician/instructor (2861), Machine Gun operator/instructor (03xx) and a range coach (85xx) and are already a Corporal (E4). Things have sure changed since I retired 20 years ago or your camoflage uniform has made you totally invisible to the CO at promotion time. A Marine of your talents and abilities should be a Warrant Officer. Good luck with that wiring harness, my friend. WX1
Read your own words, my friend. How are we supposed to know which of your stream of consciousness rants contain things you mean as opposed to things you are just saying? I think the problem is that we have been reading your posts, and we can't figure out what is real and what is conjecture. Now you are going to put steamroller M/T tires on the back of that 'resto mod' car? (See, we do read your posts.) How you gonna do that? (See, we are intelligent enough to understand the implications of statements you make.) Suggest you consider not simply firing for effect.
while we are busy building your car I humbly volunteer some of my wealth of knowledge mainly obtained by age. I don,t know if its already been offered or if I in fact have said it already. I havnt heard much about a good 12 port strt 6 thats readily available in wrecking yards far and wide, 'THE MIGHTY JEEP 6'. From personal driving experience in my son,s 86 cherokee jeep wagon. Its a combination of new and old engineering, in reality its the old straight 6 AMC motor, and combines the excellent designed version of the 60,s Rambler 6. Offered in recent years in modern form with, computer controlled injection,indivdual coil ignition, 12 port, 7 mainbearing, almost 200hp,engine , in either stick or automatic modes. for very little outlay of cash why not try one of these tough little engines. My sons Jeep had a very impressive second gear which i disposed of many a V8 in some short stoplite sprints. ol' Barney Navarro got 700hp out of one.
12 port heads...readily availible? I like the sound of that. Those jeeps usually haul alot of ass. great suggestion.
Sarcasm, and friendly banter are difficult to convey in text form "admittedly though I still need practice at this" Came in the Corps in sept 03 so not quite 7 years and yes, to answer your question, things have changed my apologies for any misconceptions that I may have conveyed. I have, in fact, thought about using a jeep engine, shoot even thought about using a 24v VR6 at one point but thats another story for another time. I think I'll start with this and work my way up. Yes, the steamrollers were a bit exaggerated, what I'm really looking to do is change the profile a bit, eventually I'll probably be looking for advice to lower the car about an inch or two, as the leaf spring suspension is alien to me. Thanks for all of your advice and guidance so far, Kevin
Is that direct port, throttle body, or tuned port injection on those jeep motors? I live near Joshua Tree Natn. Monument, those cars and parts for them are expensive, the boneyards kings are too sharp. Actually anything with 4wd, awd, or rwd that sits pretty decently off of the ground or that is diesel will cost a small fortune from the boneyards around here. I could buy a whole honda accord from like 2000 or below for a couple hundred bucks though makes sense though people want something that can haul shit or go off road or a little of both and with the base close by that doesn't help things either. Funny story though, If you use craiglook.com "for it's advanced search features" and do a price comparison from one coast to the other everyone has adjusted their prices from the east to match the west, smart really, because they can make more money, just bad for jews, like me. sometimes even I get lucky though. I'll try to head to the machinist' tomorrow, need to borrow a buddies truck and this place is a ghost town right now so maybe no dice.
Sound's like your a dreamer. I have a AMC 4 banger in my 29 Pk Up and folks ask me how fast is it. If I wanted fast, I would have put in a V8. It runs very good, but its a 4 banger. If you want performance, go with a performance engine. Your taking a slant 6, known for long life, and durability, and you want to go all out. Yea it will go faster, but in the end, all your gona do is spend a bunch of money, and when its done your gona wish you put your money in a small block. And whos gona want to buy it from you then, so you can finally get what you thought you was getting. Get real.
The old guy you are refering to is probably George Ashe up in Pa. Earl Edgerton is a younger guy (older than you, younger than me). You do have some photos of his conversion, so you got an idea of who he is. To get back on the road now, here in Iowa is an outfit called "Vintage power Wagons". When I tore my 230 down I found a cracked head and block. Sombody on another bullitin board told me about these guys and I has able to buy a complete engine (minus intake, exhaust & distributer) for less that it would have cost me to repair the block. Google them, and although they work with old military trucks, the 230 engine was used in those up until the early 70's. There are plenty of parts available. They have pistons, bearing and everything you can think of to get you back on the road.
I have heard of them "vintagepowerwagons" and have their pdf catalogue, however this computer has a Japanese xp pro on it so alas the program, if downloaded and installed, is not english friendly. I can speak Japanese, but reading kana is a whole other ballgame. Tomorrow I plan to get to workin on my desktop rig and get it back up and running and I'll have a us xp pro, and vista ultimate "admittedly not my first choice but at the time of purchase W7 wasn't available" Did I mention that I am an IT of sorts?
Also, how do I go about getting in touch with said individuals? I haven't tried a google search yet "lazy" I have looked into moldmaking, and am very interested in the MECEP program for Marines and a degree in mech. engineering. As interesting and simple as sand molding is, I lack some important things, a kiln, metal, and the most important, artistic skill JK. sounds nice and all but HAVE YOU SEEN MY GARAGE??? cuz I haven't seen the thing in about two years and it is attached to my house. Need to have a damn yard sale, not a pack rat, but I tend to find a use for things when they are already gone. Thanks, Kevin
As I see it you are just to damn young. When I was an E4 in the Motor Pool at Ft. Lewis we had plenty of 230 Dodge sixes to work on. Who knows, maybe you could have sneaked one out the back door of the ordanance Battalion we sent our stuff to.
The military is no longer self sufficient, at least not in the Marines. They would rather put out an expensive contract or pay a group of civilians to do a job that used to be performed by Marines in a timely fashion, and we did it right too, the first time. Don't get me wrong, I would love to be paid to do nothing and let the civilians "not the bad guys here" do all of the work, but it is supposed to be saving the taxpayer/government a lot of money and time and facts are facts that is simply not happening. As for sneaking that stuff out the back door the Maint. system just doesn't allow for it. The days of "making something disappear" are pretty much non-existent. Some of the old deuces and deuce and a halfs are still around for special purpose missions, but not near as many as used to be. The parts for said vehicles in the supply system have dried up and the suppliers through fed log no longer carry or they do at a very high price "again not saving anyone any money" If you were to try to save the Corps some cash "tried it and was hated for it" and do an open purchase through a vendor there is beurocratics all to hell, red tape, paperwork for officers to sign "and we all know how much they love to work" it never pans out. I remember one situation where the Marine Corps had a vehicle sink off of the coast of Okinawa in 04'? I think, anyway it was while I was stationed there. The command had a think tank going to think of a way to raise the thing and save cash and at the same time make peace with the locals for contaminating the fishing waters "fishing village right next to the base" One guy, a Lance Corporal if memory serves, came up with the idea of using air to displace the water inside of the vehicle and make it buoyant enough to float up and tow ashore. He did all of the math looked into the supply system as well as open purchase options for pin pong balls "because they are small they can be put into a net and taken down, you ever try to sit on a basketball in a pool before?" Wrote everything up real nice like and submitted his idea, gonna cost a ridiculously little amount of money "ping pong balls, right?" At the end of it all was the fact that we could give the village the balls as a donation of good faith. Anyways the big wigs got wind of it and decided to pay a Japanese tug something like 5,000,000USD to pull the thing up and another mil. to take it to shore, "no I'm not exaggerating, but could be a little off in the details" Long story short the system is broken in bad ways and not broken in bad ways...... if that makes any sense to anyone.
The Jalopy Journal
