History We ALL Love a DARE! PIX of TRULY Extinct Makes?

I actually have a 63 Corvair Greenbrier Van.
63,000 original miles, no rust.



Note the "single" rear door. they came from the factory with double doors. Original owner modified the door this way.



Have a lot of fun with this one, holds 9 passengers, and still storage room in the back. In 63 this was marketed as a Station Wagon as the Corvair had dropped car based station wagons from the line after only 2 years.
they made the Vans from 61 to 65, the Rampsides from 61-64.

I would take my Rampside to a show or cruise and PO whoever parked next to me. People would vlock to my rampside no matter what is parked next to me. People would walk around and ignore whatever I was parked by to see the unique pickup.
I get pretty much the same with the Van. So unusual to see, that people just love them...............especially with the seats in the back face to face...............

 

SWI,THIS is a beautiful specimen of a rarity -- despite how many might have ocme out originally. But, I'm a VAN guy . . . AND a pickup guy, a mom-pop sedan guy, a muscle-car guy. Hey! because of this thread, I can now come out of the closet & just SAY IT! I'm a car HO !!! LOL

 

AlsAncle & SunRoof, SO, why so few of these Willys America convertibles in the first place??? LOOKS GOOD! I didn't even know they ever existed.

 

1937 Plymouth PT-50 Half-Ton Pickup

The fun-to-drive 1937 Plymouth PT-50 half-ton pickup was the most popular 1937 Plymouth truck. That's right, a Plymouth truck.

Plymouth, the division of Chrysler that started in 1928 and was shut down in 2001, was never known for trucks. It built trucks for such a short period -- from 1935 to 1942 -- and only dabbled in them again with the easy-to-forget Trail Duster front-wheel-drive car-pickup in the mid 1970s.


Looking much like the Dodge offering of the same period, this 1937 Plymouth PT-50 half-ton pickup cost less than the Dodge new but is worth more now.

Most 1935-1942 Plymouth trucks were pickups, though there was also a Commercial Sedan sedan delivery and a Westchester Suburban, which was a woody wagon rather than a truck, but was included in the commercial line because it used the truck chassis.

Plymouth also sold a bare truck chassis, to be equipped with bodies from outside suppliers, accommodating payloads of up to one ton. Only 158 of these chassis were sold in 1937, priced at $495 ($395 without the cab, though only 11 of those were built).

The 1937 Plymouth PT-50 half-ton pickup, which cost $525, was by far the most popular 1937 Plymouth truck. Nearly 11,000 were built for the model year. Standard equipment included safety glass all around, a spare wheel nestled in the right front fender, and a six-foot-long pickup box, about four feet wide.

Power for the 1937 Plymouth PT-50 half-ton pickup came from the Plymouth L-head six with 70 horsepower. The three-speed floor-mounted transmission had silent helical gears in second speed.

Options for the 1937 Plymouth PT-50 half-ton pickup included a rear bumper, bumper guards, left-hand spare wheel mount (providing dual sidemounts), right-hand windshield wiper, and chrome windshield frame
Fenders were ordinarily painted black, but could be ordered in the body color. The sedan delivery version cost $140 more than the pickup, and included chrome bumpers front and rear as standard. At that price it was not the hottest seller, accounting for only 3,256 units.

Collectible Pluses of the 1937 Plymouth PT-50 Half-Ton Pickup

• Scarce
• Relatively fun to drive
• Uncomplicated
• Mechanical parts are in reasonable supply
• Good club support

Collectible Minuses of the 1937 Plymouth PT-50 Half-Ton Pickup

• More costly than the average 1937 pickup
• Replacement body parts are rare

 

From the right hand drive I would say this is one that was built in Australia.

The thread that sunroof alluded to has a good discussion about this. Also, there is another thread with pictures of an American built car that was turned into a gasser in the early 60s.

Willys probably didn't see enough of a market to warrant building any more then a few cars.

 

Evidently only built in Australia. Whole thread here discussing Willys Convertibles and Panels.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s....php?p=4719671

 

HAMBer palosvf3 of Palos Pak, IL, ran this pic of his Facel Vega mid-2009. He said Facel produced 68 Hemi-powered cars -- 38 with the 354-CID FirePower and 30 with the 392-CID FirePower. Myself, I LOVE these French-American hybrids, because they blend American muscle with Rolls-Royce/Bentley style. (Later, F-V went out of biz trying to make their car a sportscar with under-powered mill. Just my 2 cents.)

I might mention that info about the FV (1954-1964) is spotty, and some of it doesn't seem well researched. But I do remember a seemingly reliable report that the earliest FVs ran DeSoto 276- and, maybe, 291-CID Hemis. I would certainly welcome any SOLID info on the Hemi Facel Vegas. I've seen plenty of half-baked stuff.

Yep, it's got a Hemi.​

 

1933 Reo Speedwagon Model BN

Built for speed and finely crafted, the 1933 Reo Speedwagon Model BN is a rare find today.

Before World War II, Reo was one of the best-known names in the commercial vehicle industry. This was due in large part to the 1915 introduction of the one-ton Speedwagon -- a name both memorable and apt.

The Speedwagon's original purpose was to provide more than the 10-15 mph gait common to trucks in the first two decades of the 20th century. The powerful four-cylinder engine, spiral bevel gears, and three-speed transmission did exactly that.


With its 95-horsepower "Gold Crown" six-cylinder engine, the fast-for-its-day 1933 Reo Speedwagon Model BN lived up to its name.

A six-cylinder Reo Speedwagon appeared in 1925, delivering even better performance. Despite producing such outstanding cars as the Flying Cloud and Royale, Reo suffered badly during the Depression.

By 1933 it was clear that Reo's future, if any, lay in commercial vehicles. In that year, Reo registered 3,042 trucks to 2,623 cars -- the first time it had sold more trucks than cars. Reo lost $2.5 million in the process, and realized that it could not continue to build cars at an annual volume of under 3,000.
The truck operation was shaky, too, but small-volume truckmakers seemed better able to survive.

The 1933 Reo Speedwagon Model BN is a prime example of Reo's commercial craftsmanship. According to Glenn Salada of the Domino's Classic Cars Museum in Ann Arbor, Michigan, "The BN was a specially built 1933-1934 model, several of which were panel delivery wagons. According to current authorities this rare Reo was built from a combination of component parts from the 1931-1933 Flying Cloud and Royale luxury cars and the 1933-1934 Speedwagon."

Power for the 1933 Reo Speedwagon Model BN came from a 230-cid Reo-built six called the "Gold Crown." Its 95 bhp was enough to make it one of the fastest trucks of its day. Fine styling and woody bodywork teamed up to make it among the most beautiful, too.

After 1936, Reo concentrated strictly on trucks under the Reo and Diamond-Reo nameplates.

Collectible Pluses of the 1933 Reo Speedwagon Model BN

• Superlative performance for its period
• Woody body styling
• Fine Reo lines
• Scarce
• Very desirable

Collectible Minuses of the 1933 Reo Speedwagon Model BN

• Expensive, if you can find one
• Replacement parts are very scarce
• High-maintenance wood bodywork

 

Thanks, guys. Yeah THAT surely makes it pretty plain about Willys' alternative bodies. After all, they weren't exactly sitting in the catbird's seat by the late '30s and early '40s.

 

SunRoof, not ONLY is that a great pic of yet another great "woodie," I find it very enlightening, too! I did not KNOW the REO was making this model, this late. Also, I was shakey on just how early Ransom Olds started to market them.

Kids in the '70s and '80s, I am sure, didn't realize the play on words represented by the long-lived pop-music group's name!!! REO Speedwagon. For writer/lead-singer Kevin Cronin & his group, I always thought, it must have been an inside joke of sorts.

That said, it's great to be drawn back to REO, mostly remembered for the Flying Cloud & Royale. I am PROUD of Ransom Olds for forging ahead after he and his monied partners disagreed about what SIZE cars to make. The other guys won out, & Raonsom started another company, this time simply PARAPHRASING his name! THOSE guys did well, too, with larger Olds cars. ANYONE remember the famous poster of the big Olds beating the 20th Century Limited express train???

 

1954-1964 Facel Vega

Introduction to 1954-1964 Facel Vega

The 1954-1964 Facel Vega combined Gallic grandeur with American muscle as one of history's most memorable hybrids. Anyone with a soul who ever drove a Facel Vega wouldn't need a reason for its existence. Unfortunately, that's something most of us will never do, because the total number of these Chrysler-powered bolides hardly surpasses a thousand.


The 1962 Facel II sported a glassy greenhouse, fashionably squared-up contours, and the most potent engine in Facel Vega history.

Facel specialist Fred Kanter once called the Facel Vega "a cross between a Lincoln Continental and a Mercedes-Benz 300SL." Kanter's description sounds strange, but it's really more accurate than you might think.

Driving a Facel Vega is a unique experience. Surrounded by disarmingly luxurious accoutrements, you snick through a notchy gearbox transmitting power sufficient for a howling 140 mph. If the gearbox happens to be an automatic, it doesn't much affect the performance.

Pinning occupants deep into posh seat cushions was a Facel tradition. So was the marque's ability to combine some of the best American and European driving characteristics. And since it lasted a full decade, the FV rates as one of history's most successful hybrids.

But the Facel Vega story begins long before the mating of American power with French bodywork. It dates back to 1938, when Jean Daninos formed Facel S.A. (Forges et Ateliers de Construction d'Eure et de Loire) in Paris to manufacture aircraft dies and tooling.

After the fall of France in June 1940, the works was occupied by the Germans and thus ordered to produce war materiél. On the side, Daninos produced charcoal-burning generators, very useful with the concurrent shortage of gasoline in the occupied nation.

French industry was relatively unscathed despite the conflict with Germany, and Facel expanded quickly after peace was restored in 1945. Just five years later, the company was producing almost everything including the kitchen sink: scooters, bodies for military cars, combustion chambers for Rolls-Royce and de Havilland jet engines, office furniture, kitchen cabinets, and those metal sinks.

By then it employed 2000 workers at four factories, two in Paris, one in Dreux, and one -- the largest -- in Amboise.

The military body business proved particularly profitable, and Facel soon turned to constructing car bodies for Delahaye, Simca, Panhard, and Ford France. The mechanical presses at Amboise punched out steel and aluminum panels, which were then transferred to Paris, assembled in jigs, and welded into complete bodies.

By 1952 the firm was turning out about 105 per day. The bodies supplied to Ford were for the V8-60 Comète and its Mercury-powered counterpart, the Monte Carlo. These models are significant in the development of the Facel Vega because their body design was entirely Facel's -- a finely styled, softly rounded 2 + 2 of the Pininfarina school, with a prominent grille, very clean slab sides, and a broad, curved windshield.

Having been involved with making everything from car bodies to kitchen sinks, Jean Daninos resolved to build a high-performance car that would restore France to a position of prominence in the GT field. Trouble was, it would have to survive as an export.

While the Facel-built bodies were undeniably sleek, Simca, Panhard, and Ford were hardly in the grand routier tradition of marques like Bugatti and Delage. Few native products were.

High postwar taxes severely limited French market demand for cars with horsepower rated above 15 chevaux (the Comète was 13), and by 1954 only Lago Talbot was soldiering on, nearly bankrupt, with its 4.5-liter, 210-bhp GS. There was little to represent the tricolor in the GT field except Deutsch-Bonnet and Renault Alpine, which were hardly in the Ferrari league.

A patriot as well as an enthusiast, Daninos resolved to correct this situation. If a French performance GT couldn't survive on the home market, maybe it could as an export, particularly if it employed foreign mechanical components.

His first move in this direction was to top the 4.3-liter Bentley chassis with a trim, three-seat coupe body of smooth lines. This car starred at the 1951 Paris Salon, and six of these Facel-Bentleys were ultimately built.

In construction they resembled the Comète: steel doors and sides, Duralinox front and rear body panels, and light alloy roof, carefully mated to create a body that appeared "all of a piece." Styling prefigured that of the first Facel Vega, which arrived in 1954. Read about the debut of the Facel Vega on the next page.

1954, 1955 Facel Vega

The 1954-1955 Facel Vega's raison d'être was cost: Bentley chassis weren't cheap, and Facel had the ability to make its own. A key figure here was Lance Macklin.

A former member of the HWM racing team with Stirling Moss and Mike Collins, and son of Sir Noel Macklin of Railton fame, he designed the Vega's strong cruciform chassis, which dropped well below the drive-shaft centerline between front and rear wheels. It employed two 31/2-inch forward side tubes, to the insides of which were welded channel-section steel with flanges that widened toward the front.

The tubes also curved upward and inward toward the front, which increased rigidity. Two smaller tubular members curved back over the rear axle. Cross-bracing was a combination of tubular- and channel-steel members, some placed diagonally.

A second collaborator was M. Brasseur, who helped with the body styling. But, as The Autocar commented, Daninos was "the project engineer, designer and, indeed, the driving force behind the whole enterprise."

As for power, Facel selected what was technically the best V-8 in the world at the time: Chrysler Corporation's hemi, specifically the 276-cubic-inch DeSoto version, rated here at 175 bhp in 1954-1955.

Suspension was conventional: independent with coil springs up front and a live axle on semi-elliptic leafs at the rear. Steering was cam-and-roller, the hypoid final drive was supplied by Salisbury, and Robergel wire wheels ventilated 11-inch-diameter aluminum drum brakes all-round.

Although it weighed over 4000 pounds, the Facel Vega could easily exceed 100 mph with either the standard Pont-à-Mousson four-speed gearbox or the optional two-speed PowerFlite automatic, also from Chrysler.

Later, the American company brought out its more advanced three-speed Torque-Flite, and the French firm quickly adopted it.

The new car appeared in Paris on July 29, 1954, with the Vega model name. Confusingly, this was combined with Facel in 1956 to create the Facel Vega marque. Whatever you called it, this was one helluva automobile.

Coachwork was impeccable: the doors closed like bank vaults and the body panels were faultlessly joined (restorers stripping F-V bodies have found no fewer than five perfectly mated panels forming the roof). Attention to detail was evident in the use of corrosion-resistant stainless steel for brightwork, and in the top-grade cowhide and thick carpet that lined the interior.

With all that, the Vega sold for a price you might expect: a lofty $7,000, about as much as the concurrent Rolls-Royce Silver Dawn. It's hardly surprising then that only 46 of the 1954-1955 Vegas were built.

1956 Facel Vega FVS

Daninos had to export the 1956 Facel Vega FVS to survive, and he chose California as his prime target and Charles Hornburg, the west coast Jaguar distributor, as his sales outlet.

Later, for the east coast market, he signed up Max Hoffman, the godfather of the import car business in the U.S., who introduced Americans to more European marques than everybody else combined. Hoffman Motors continued to sell Facels until 1963.

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The FVS "wood" dash was actually painted metal, though very realistic. Full instrumentation was included.</center>
With the U.S. market in good hands, Daninos launched a refined Facel Vega in 1956. Designated "FVS," it was powered by a 330-cid Chrysler hemi belting out 225 bhp and was distinguished -- if that's the word -- by an American-inspired wraparound windshield.

Though the extreme dogleg A-pillars raised knee welts from Palm Beach to Beverly Hills, it didn't much bother the Beautiful People who doted on and drove the beasts. Indeed, they were the only ones who could afford to.

The FVS reintroduced a unique dashboard treatment first tried with the Facel-Bentleys: what appeared to be highly polished burl walnut was, in reality, painted metal. It was the best sham woodwork ever manufactured. It even crinkled with age like the real thing.

Another surprise was the dashboard "glovebox," which was nothing of the sort -- just a hinged plate containing a vanity mirror. The true gloveboxes were built into the door panels.

Like all Facel products, the FVS was properly instrumented, with a large speedo and tach supplemented by five minor gauges. Chrysler influence was evident in the heater controls with their huge chrome knobs, as well as the push-button transmission selector on automatic cars.

Facel charged a minimum $7,500 for the FVS. One reason the price was so high was that the company had to pay double duty, first on the arrival of the Chrysler bits in France, then on the arrival of completed cars in the country of sale.

A temporary import permit for the Chrysler parts might have been arranged, but Facel never thought of it. These were car nuts, not customs agents.

1956, 1957, 1958, 1959 Facel Vega Road Test
Now let's try a Facel Vega road test. If the Facel Vega performed well, the Facel Vega FVS was a stormer. Typical examples ran 0-60 mph in 10.5 seconds and could reach two miles per minute with the 2.93:1 rear axle ratio. Production cards indicate that 227 of these cars were built for 1956-1957. Over three-fourths were exported, mostly to America.

Unhappily, the FVS suffered from one serious flaw: poor front-end geometry. Perhaps because of America's rough secondary roads, wheel alignment was a much-too-frequent necessity, and suspension overhauls required after as few as 20,000 miles were not uncommon.

<table align="center" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="400"><tbody><tr><td><center>

Vega's successor was the 1956-1957 FVS, with wrapped windshield and more hemi power but the same 103.5-inch wheelbase. Just 227 were built. Most came to America.

</center></td></tr></tbody></table>But Daninos sold the FVS as fast as he could build it -- and at a modest profit. Another 130 were completed for 1958, now on a wheelbase lengthened 1.5 inches to an even 105 and powered by the 325-bhp Chrysler 354 hemi.

This mighty engine was continued on the HK-500, the little-changed FVS successor announced in 1959, and was good for that 140-mph maximum.

Daninos had obviously latched on to a good thing: the American horsepower race. Every time Chrysler produced a hairier V-8, Facel happily bought a small batch for its Parisian flyers. After Chrysler switched to the 383-cid wedge-head for some of its 1959 models, Facel followed suit.

The presence of automatic on most HK-500s didn't seem to make much difference. Motor Life magazine timed the standing quarter-mile in 17.3 seconds at 78 mph, while The Motor in England scored a second less and about 8 mph more with the Pont-à-Mousson four-speed.

"One of the world's fastest and most controllable luxury sports saloons," was the British magazine's verdict. The American publication was more enthusiastic, giving the HK-500 "a full quota of gold stars as one of the world's finest automobiles."

Another Facel Vega fan was Mechanix Illustrated magazine's Tom McCahill, who boasted the largest following of any road test writer in America.

In typical fashion, he called the HK-500 "sexier than the Place Pigalle and throatier than a Russian basso ... a sporting piece of equipment that looks like money, which is exactly what it costs ... a car to be appreciated as a remarkable and wonderfully satisfying road companion."

Next came the four-door.

1959, 1960, 1961, 1962 Facel Vega Excellence Four-Door

Appearing in 1959 was Daninos' first production Facel Vega four-door, based on the HK-500 platform but built on a 20-inch longer wheelbase. Its name was the Facel Vega Excellence four-door.

A hardtop sedan sans B-pillars; it was novel in-having center-opening doors that latched on only two small lugs built into the sills. There is a debate over the merits of this arrangement. Some say the long, heavy, pillarless structure tended to flex, with embarrassing results for door alignment.


<table align="center" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="400"> <tbody> <tr> <td><center>
Full pillarless construction on a long, chassis gave the Excellence a lot of body flex, according to some. Others say there's none.

</center></td> </tr> </tbody> </table> Others insist that there was no flex at all. Perhaps it is significant that Ford studied the Excellence and elected to use a semi-pillar type of construction for its Lincoln Continental sedan and convertible sedan, introduced for 1961.

Despite being more than two feet longer than the HK-500, the Excellence was small by American standards at 206.5 inches long overall, though its 125-inch wheelbase made it comparable to U.S. full-size models. The impression inside was of a standard Facel Vega, with the same dummy-walnut dash, plentiful gauges, and aromatic leather upholstery.

But the Excellence also provided a complete make-up kit for milady. Mounted on the back of the center armrest, it contained a chrome-handled brush and comb plus two perfume bottles. The latter were not filled, no doubt just an oversight.

<table align="center" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="400"> <tbody> <tr> <td><center>
Facel Excellence doors latched on small built-in sill lugs.

</center></td> </tr> </tbody> </table> Priced at a towering $12,800, the Excellence could hardly be expected to sell in hefty quantity, and it didn't. Production was just 60, 62, and 34 units for 1960, 1961, and 1962, respectively. Even so, it received a lot of good press.

Comparisons were usually made with Cadillac's Eldorado Brougham -- quite apt, that -- as well as the Rolls-Royce Silver Cloud and Mercedes-Benz 300d, though the Excellence had the legs of any of them.

While the contemporary Chrysler 300F was superior in speed and acceleration -- it had 413 cid to the Facel's 383 -- it lacked the French car's outstanding finish and more restrained styling. Later, the Excellence came in for disc brakes and, following the American trend, less pronounced tailfins.

It cost the world -- particularly with optional power brakes and steering, air conditioning, power windows, and what-not -- but low sales were not necessarily a handicap in this rarified price sector.


<table align="center" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="400"> <tbody> <tr> <td><center>
A beautifully maintained Excellence shows off the model's formal front and long, low profile.

</center></td> </tr> </tbody> </table> The Excellence nearly spun off one very interesting derivative: a revival of the grand luxe Packard. Proposed by a New York conglomerate in 1959, it was, of course, nothing more than a piece of badge engineering, with Packard nameplates and emblems, "ox-yoke" radiator and pelican mascot, and red-painted wheel hubs (the Facel's already had the required hexagonal shape).

The idea was pitched simultaneously to Daninos and the Studebaker-Packard board and envisioned a "caretaker" operation under the Packard name. The cars were to be sold only through the more "exclusive" S-P dealers at an anticipated price of about $15,000.

Daninos was agreeable, and S-P president Harold Churchill, a traditionalist and a car lover, was allegedly delighted. The project actually got as far as the planning stage when opposition arose from Daimler-Benz, which was then marketing its Mercedes cars in North America through S-P and didn't take kindly to the notion of an "in-house" French competitor by any name.

Churchill, realizing that the Facel-Packard would sell in much smaller quantity than the Mercedes, shelved the proposal. It was probably as close as S-P ever came to resurrecting the big luxury Packard after 1956.

1962, 1963, 1964 Facel II V-8

Best of the V-8 Facel Vegas was the Facel II V-8, introduced for model year 1962. Essentially, it was a reskinned HK-500 on the same wheelbase and powered by the same Chrysler 383, but the deft and elegant styling changes make it perhaps the most desirable of all Jean Daninos' creations.

This new 2+2 did away with clichés like the wrapped windshield, and looked more impressive because it was six inches longer overall than the HK-500. Light-alloy knock-off disc wheels or Borrani-Rudge wires were offered.

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Facel II (1962 shown) was the last and best of the firm's Franco-American V-8 GTs.
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At only 3,400-3,600 pounds, the Facel II was lighter than its predecessors and thus the quickest Facel in history. Road tester Bernard Cahier, for example, achieved a true 140 mph and clocked 0-100 mph at 17 seconds.

Daninos was a small man physically, and the Facel II cockpit reflected his personal considerations. The steering wheel sits in one's lap, pedals and controls are within reach of anyone, and the upright front seats have fixed backrests.

(On the Excellence, foot-rests were built into the rear of the front seat cushions for short people to brace themselves -- no doubt Daninos found himself back there on occasion, behind an enthusiastic French test driver.)

You face the usual large tachometer and speedometer and can consult five additional instruments -- fuel level, coolant temperature, oil pressure, amps, and oil temperature -- plus a clock, in the center of the dash per previous practice.

<table align="center" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="400"><tbody><tr><td><center>
The 1962 Facel II cabin was jazzier but still understated.

</center></td></tr></tbody></table>All gauges have straightforward white-on-black markings, and there are little hoods on the small ones to forestall reflections. The rear seat was strictly "occasional" on all Facel Vegas, but it folds down on the Facel II to make a platform for luggage.

The front compartment is spacious, however, and the glassy superstructure makes for excellent visibility in every direction. It isn't very hard to imagine putting in many long, effortless miles behind the wheel of a Facel II.

On the road, the Facel II feels incongruously like a big American sedan. The Chrysler engine grumbles softly, and the car's smoothness and relative heft are readily apparent. Definite oversteer reinforces this impression, though owners say this can be corrected by varying tire pressures.

With its quick and precise power steering, the Facel II handles well, tracking smoothly through high-speed turns and sticking ably in tight corners. Certainly it was the best of the breed. Alas, it would be the last of the V-8 Facel GTs, and only 182 were built for model years 1962-1964.

The Last Facel Vegas

What killed Facel Vega? To some extent, at least in Europe, it was high price. The contemporary Jensen CV8, Aston Martin DB5, Bristol 407, and Maserati 3500 all cost much less. This is part of the story of the last Facel Vegas.

In addition, lack of real financial depth prevented a complete redesign, which could have eliminated the traditional front-end problems, the somewhat heavy controls, and the lack of genuine four-passenger accommodation. But the deciding factor was the company's attempt at a smaller, all-French product, the 1959-1963 Facellia.

<table align="center" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="400"><tbody><tr><td><center>
Had Facel S.A. not been in such financial hot water, it's possible the Facel III would have sold even better. As it is, only 1,500 were built. Here, the coupe.

</center></td></tr></tbody></table>A scaled-down HK-500 convertible on a 96.5-inch wheelbase, the Facellia looked smart and seemed saleable. But its engine was a disaster. Sized at 1647cc -- Daninos pointedly avoided competition and saw no need to duck under the 1.6-liter tax limit -- it was a 115-bhp double-overhead-cam four supplied by Pont-à-Mousson, which had never built an engine before. It showed.

The twin cam was not only noisy, it burned piston rings at an incredible rate. Such difficulties played hell in markets like America, where the typical buyer didn't expect to have to heave to with wrenches or attend to major engine work every 40,000 miles.

Parts and dealers were never plentiful, and the service situation wreaked havoc with sales. As a result, only 500 Facellias were called for. It was a major setback for Daninos, who had contemplated building 5,000 a year once production hit full stride.

Facel consequently slipped into receivership at the end of 1962. The following spring, the receivers attempted a comeback with the Volvo-powered Facel III. Though it was little more than a Facellia with the Swedish firm's far more reliable 1.8-liter overhead-valve four, it sold 1,500 copies.

That was mildly encouraging, because at least it kept the company functioning, with the receivers in charge, through the end of the year. Then hope for a rescue appeared. The SFERMA subsidiary of Sud-Aviation contracted to manage Facel for the next 12 months.

SFERMA briefly considered Facel's own engine, an aluminum twincam four with up to 200 bhp, but that only implied more of the same problems that had plagued the Facellia. Ultimately, it chose the ohv 3.0-liter BMC six familiar from the Austin-Healey 3000 for yet another Facellia-clone called Facel 6.

To get under the French 15 chevaux tax limit, the engine was debored to 2.8 liters, in which form it developed 150 bhp. But in the end, the Facel 6 could not counter the Facellia's reputation for poor reliability, and production amounted to only 23 coupes and just three convertibles.

Negotiations for BMW's 2.0-liter sohc six proved fruitless, and SFERMA refused to renew its management contract at the end of 1964. Facel S.A. thus went into final liquidation in early 1965.

SFERMA kept the rights to the name, however, and the Facel parts depot operated a few years longer. Remaining inventory gradually shifted to former distributors and, fortunately, much of it has survived. The Pont-à-Mousson gearboxes are literally irreplaceable, though.

It's probably just as well that Facel died when it did. It is difficult to imagine what its cars would have been like in the age of emission controls and 5-mph bumpers that began in the U.S. with model year 1968. As it stands, the Facel record isn't bad for a firm of its size.

As Bernard Cahier put it, the Facel Vega was part of "that elite group of classic high-powered touring machines which were immortalized in prewar days by such as the Duesenberg, the Talbot, and the Delahaye ... Daninos created a car of which France could be proud, and much credit must be given to his efforts and persistence in creating such a superb machine."

A worthy tribute, that, and a fitting one.

1954-1964 Facel Vega Specifications

The 1954-1964 Facel Vega is a handsome, haute couture collectible coveted for its rarity, French-American breeding, and sophisticated sass. Find specification, pricing, and production information for the 1954-1964 Facel Vega in the following chart.

1954-1964 Facel Vega Specifications

V-8 Grand Touring

<table style="width: 100%;" border="1" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1"> <tbody> <tr> <td style="width: 12%;">Year</td> <td style="width: 12%;">Model</td> <td style="width: 12%;">WB (in.)</td> <td style="width: 12%;">Length (in.)</td> <td style="width: 12%;">Weight (lbs.)</td> <td style="width: 12%;">Engine/Cid</td> <td style="width: 12%;">bhp@rpm</td> <td style="width: 12%;">Price (U.S.)</td> <td valign="top">Production</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="width: 12%;">1954-1955</td> <td style="width: 12%;">Vega</td> <td style="width: 12%;">103.5</td> <td style="width: 12%;">174.0</td> <td style="width: 12%;">4,060</td> <td style="width: 12%;">V-8/276</td> <td style="width: 12%;">175 @ 4500</td> <td style="width: 12%;">$7,000</td> <td valign="top">46</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="width: 12%;">1956-1957</td> <td style="width: 12%;">FVS</td> <td style="width: 12%;">103.5</td> <td style="width: 12%;">174.0</td> <td style="width: 12%;">3,735</td> <td style="width: 12%;">V-8/330</td> <td style="width: 12%;">255 @ 4400</td> <td style="width: 12%;">$7,500</td> <td valign="top">227</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="width: 12%;">1958</td> <td style="width: 12%;">FVS</td> <td style="width: 12%;">105.0</td> <td style="width: 12%;">180.0</td> <td style="width: 12%;">3,885</td> <td style="width: 12%;">V-8/354 </td> <td style="width: 12%;">345 @ 4600</td> <td style="width: 12%;">$9,750</td> <td valign="top">130</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="width: 12%;">1959</td> <td style="width: 12%;">HK-500</td> <td style="width: 12%;">105.0</td> <td style="width: 12%;">181.0</td> <td style="width: 12%;">3,900</td> <td style="width: 12%;">V-8/354 </td> <td style="width: 12%;">345 @ 4600</td> <td style="width: 12%;">$9,750</td> <td valign="top">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="width: 12%;">1960</td> <td style="width: 12%;">HK-500</td> <td style="width: 12%;">105.0</td> <td style="width: 12%;">181.0</td> <td style="width: 12%;">4,008</td> <td style="width: 12%;">V-8/383</td> <td style="width: 12%;">330 @ 5200*</td> <td style="width: 12%;">$9,795</td> <td valign="top">439</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="width: 12%;">1961</td> <td style="width: 12%;">HK-500</td> <td style="width: 12%;">105.0</td> <td style="width: 12%;">181.0</td> <td style="width: 12%;">4,170</td> <td style="width: 12%;">V-8/383</td> <td style="width: 12%;">330 @ 5200*</td> <td style="width: 12%;">$9,795</td> <td valign="top">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">1962-1964</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">Facel II</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">105.0</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">187.0</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">3,500</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">V-8/383</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">390 @ 5400</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">$12,160</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">182</td> </tr> </tbody> </table>
Hardtop Sedan

<table style="width: 100%;" border="1" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1"> <tbody> <tr> <td style="width: 12%;">Year</td> <td style="width: 12%;">Model</td> <td style="width: 12%;">WB (in.)</td> <td style="width: 12%;">Length (in.)</td> <td style="width: 12%;">Weight (lbs.)</td> <td style="width: 12%;">Engine/Cid</td> <td style="width: 12%;">bhp@
rpm</td> <td style="width: 12%;">Price (U.S.)</td> <td valign="top">Production</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="width: 12%;">1959-1960</td> <td style="width: 12%;">Excellence</td> <td style="width: 12%;">125.0</td> <td style="width: 12%;">206.5</td> <td style="width: 12%;">4,300</td> <td style="width: 12%;">V-8/354**</td> <td style="width: 12%;">345 @ 4600 </td> <td style="width: 12%;">$12,800</td> <td valign="top">156</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">V-8/383
</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">330 @ 5200*</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
</td> </tr> </tbody> </table> Small Sports Cars
<table style="width: 100%;" border="1" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1"> <tbody> <tr> <td style="width: 12%;">Year</td> <td style="width: 12%;">Model</td> <td style="width: 12%;">WB (in.)</td> <td style="width: 12%;">Length (in.)</td> <td style="width: 12%;">Weight (lbs.)</td> <td style="width: 12%;">Engine/Cid</td> <td style="width: 12%;">bhp@rpm</td> <td style="width: 12%;">Price (U.S.)</td> <td valign="top">Production</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="width: 12%;">1959-1960</td> <td style="width: 12%;">Facellia Fl </td> <td style="width: 12%;">96.5</td> <td style="width: 12%;">164.0</td> <td style="width: 12%;">2,465</td> <td style="width: 12%;">dohc I-4/100</td> <td style="width: 12%;">115 @ 6400</td> <td style="width: 12%;">$3,995</td> <td valign="top">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="width: 12%;">1961-1963</td> <td style="width: 12%;">Facellia F2</td> <td style="width: 12%;">96.5</td> <td style="width: 12%;">164.0</td> <td style="width: 12%;">2,465</td> <td style="width: 12%;">dohc I-4/100 </td> <td style="width: 12%;">115 @ 6400</td> <td style="width: 12%;">$3,995</td> <td valign="top">500</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="width: 12%;">1961-1963</td> <td style="width: 12%;">Facellia F2S</td> <td style="width: 12%;">96.5</td> <td style="width: 12%;">164.0</td> <td style="width: 12%;">2,470</td> <td style="width: 12%;">dohc I-4/100 </td> <td style="width: 12%;">131 @ 6400</td> <td style="width: 12%;">$4,295</td> <td valign="top">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="width: 12%;">1964</td> <td style="width: 12%;">Facel III</td> <td style="width: 12%;">96.5</td> <td style="width: 12%;">163.5</td> <td style="width: 12%;">2,600</td> <td style="width: 12%;">ohv I-4/108 </td> <td style="width: 12%;">108 @ 5000</td> <td style="width: 12%;">$5,395</td> <td valign="top">1500</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="width: 12%;">1965</td> <td style="width: 12%;">Facel 6 </td> <td style="width: 12%;">96.5</td> <td style="width: 12%;">163.5</td> <td style="width: 12%;">2,667</td> <td style="width: 12%;">ohv I-6/172 </td> <td style="width: 12%;">150 @ 5250</td> <td style="width: 12%;">$6,000</td> <td valign="top">26</td> </tr> </tbody> </table>
* With automatic, 325 bhp at 5200 rpm.
** Early 1959 models only.

 

Okay! THANKS, SunRoof. Best I've read on the Facel Vega. One can understand why there's popular confusion about these grand-looking cars, eh?

Your table proves definitively that FV went from the DeSoto 276 Hemi to the DeSoto 330 Hemi (intro '56) and, thence to the 354 Chrysler Hemi and, finally the 383 MoPar, which may have been poly and/or wedge-head versions (I'm not too familiar with the early 383s). The 383 apparently was still made available even after the Austin and other (?) smaller engines were offered in the later years.

THANKS again!

 

Any one in the market for a used Tucker????

 

Holy Hanna there, SunRoof! Obviously, this is for REAL. Where did you come up with it? When was the pic taken & where? What a freakin' FIND!

 

Fargo (truck)





<!-- start content -->
Fargo FK2-33 Truck 1946



Fargo fire truck from Ottawa.



Fargo Power Wagon truck in Batey ha-Osef Museum, Israel.



A 1956 Fargo pickup.


Fargo was a brand of truck manufactured and sold in Canada by the Chrysler Corporation. Fargo trucks were almost identical to Dodge trucks, save for trim and name, and were sold by Chrysler-Plymouth dealers. Production began in the late 1920s.
The name Fargo was discontinued after 1972 for Canada, but lived longer for other countries around the world under the Chrysler Corporation's badge engineering marketing approach. Most of the Fargo trucks and bus chassis sold in Argentina, Finland, Australia, India, and other countries in Europe and Asia were made in Chrysler's Kew (UK) plant. Most were also sold under the Dodge and Commer names.
Theories on why Chrysler used the name Fargo include the imagery of open range of the American west, symbolized by the city of Fargo and the Wells-Fargo stage lines, while another theory assumes there was a play on the words "Far" and "Go" denoting durability.
The Fargo brand still exists in Turkey, where Fargo and DeSoto trucks are made by Turkish manufacturer Askam with no technical or business connection with Chrysler.

 

Imagine that!
But when you come to think about it.
There was a time that a Tucker became just an orphan car with no dealership network or parts sources. So what was its value?

And with all the unique parts and pieces a Tuckwer would have, and no experienced mechanics, it would be considered a poor investment.
When I started getting into Corvaris, they were cheap, no one wanted them, dealerships didn't want to work on them, so they sold for next to nothing, or given away.
I'm sure more than one Tucker ended up in this position at one time.

Yes, there were only around 51 Tuckers made.
But look now at unsold Pontiacs and Saturns all over because people don't want to make the investment in orphan cars. Values of used Oldsmobiles plumeted too.

Great picture!

 

On the Facel Vega.
Their Pont-a mouson 4-speed transmission was used in some of the 1960 Chrysler 300's
Apparently a very special order, this 4-speed box was used in the Facel Vega, was a rare option in the 300 of 1960. Made in France by Pont a Mousson, used also in trucks and some other large French cars from the forties or early fifties.




Yjey were considered quite troublesome..........

 

In light of the Facel Vega Article, I submit another Chrysler powered exotic car.

Monteverdi 375-Series

by the Auto Editors of Consumer Guide


"Monteverdi 375-Series." 05 June 2007. HowStuffWorks.com. <http://auto.howstuffworks.com/monteverdi-375-series.htm> 13 January 2010.


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<!-- dtl_id=386488 //-->The Monteverdi 375-Series was in abberation in many ways. Although Switzerland stands proudly independent amidst Italy, France, and Germany, it has never developed a strong native motor industry. Observers were thus quite surprised in 1967when Binningen-based businessman Peter Monteverdi announced that he would not only build a car in Switzerland but that it would take on the world’s premier high-performance makes.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 align=center><TBODY><TR><TD><CENTER>
[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The two-seat 375S was the first effort of Swiss motor magnate Peter Monteverdi.[/FONT]
</CENTER></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Monteverdi was a successful, well-established motor trader, having been the Swiss BMW importer and manufacturer of the MBM single-seat racers. Predictably, he took the simplest and most practical route to his new GTs, designing the chassis himself but looking to the Italians for styling help and to Detroit for drivetrains.

The first Monteverdi was a two-seat semi-fastback coupe dubbed the Monteverdi 375S, built on a separate tubular-steel chassis with coil-spring front suspension and De Dion rear. The latter, of course, isn’t the best solution for fast-car handling, as it’s halfway between a live rear axle and a fully independent setup. But Monteverdi, with neither time nor money for his own irs, decided that what was good for Aston Martin was good enough for him.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 align=center><TBODY><TR><TD><CENTER>
[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The stylish Monteverdi 375 boasted design by Italy
and under-the-hood muscle from Detroit.[/FONT]
</CENTER></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Monteverdi also had his own ideas about styling, but wisely enlisted Pietro Frua to refine them. The result looked like a slightly sleeker rendition of two Frua-designed contemporaries, the AC 428 and Maserati’s Mistral (see entries). Bodyshells were supplied by Fissore in Italy.

The Ferrari-esque model designation referred to the SAE gross horsepower of the standard 440-cubic-inch Chrysler V-8 (re-rated by the mid-Seventies to 305 bhp SAE net). For a not-so-few dollars more, you could order a “High Speed” model powered by the famed 426-cid hemi with 450 bhp (SAE gross). Either could be teamed with Chrysler 4-speed manual or 3-speed TorqueFlite automatic transmission. The latter would end up being fitted to most of the relatively few 375s built during the series’ 10-year lifespan.
Soon after announcement, the Monteverdi 375S was joined by a companion 2 + 2 called 375L, followed in 1969 by a two-place cabriolet, logically designated 375C. All rode a 105.5-inch wheelbase. The chassis was stretched to no less than 125 inches between wheel centers for a large, heavy four/five-seat sedan, the 375 Limousine.

Then in the spring of ‘75, the Cabriolet was put on a 98-inch wheelbase and given a restyled front to become the Palm Beach Spider. Chassis and mechanical specifications were otherwise the same for all models, and largely unchanged during the entire production run. Styling was typical late-Sixties Italian supercar: rather angular contours, glassy greenhouse with slim pillars, shapely tails, and broad eggcrate grilles with quad headlamps.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 align=center><TBODY><TR><TD><CENTER>
[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The interior of the Monteverdi 375S was functional up-front, but the
backseat was "just for show," due to the car's long wheelbase.[/FONT]
</CENTER></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>As the Chrysler engines were designed to motivate heavyweight New Yorkers and Imperials, they returned somewhat better performance in the lighter Monteverdis. The 440 could see all but the Limousine to over 150 mph, competitive with most Maseratis if not the magnificent Ferrari Daytona. The hemi-engine cars were faster still, as quick as most any Ferrari or Lamborghini save the mid-engine Berlinetta Boxer and Miura.

Though reliable figures are hard to come by, it’s doubtful Monteverdi production exceeded 50 cars in any one year, and was probably much lower in most. Sales were confined mainly to Europe, as there was no U.S. marketing effort, and prices were towering for these largely handbuilt machines.
In retrospect, the lack of U.S. sales seems odd, as the use of Chrysler drivetrains would have made meeting federal emissions regulations a lot easier for Monteverdi than most other exoticar builders. Perhaps the whole thing was nothing more than a hobby for Mr. Monteverdi.
Regardless, by 1977, perhaps a little earlier, the Monteverdi 375-Series was gone and Peter Monteverdi had turned to selling plushed-up, slightly restyled Dodge Aspen sedans, called Sierra, through his handful of European dealers. He later applied a similar “boutique” treatment to the four-wheel-drive Range Rover.

 

SWI, well said, man! I can remember in the '60s, too, when NOBODY wanted a used orphan Edsel, Packard or DeSoto. Besides the, sometimes, legitimate concern about parts and service availability, there is ANOTHER big factor in suppression of orphan car values -- ego and concern about status! A lot of people just don't want to be seen dead in a cancelled car, as if it sends a negative message about the driver. GM must have realized this; not ONLY did they sign in blood to service canceled Olds cars, if you look, you'll see that Olds NAMEPLATES on the final models is downright tiny. Not just downplayed, TINY. Obviously, they were not TRUMPETING the Oldsmobile name, were they?

There's also a sort of bandwagon effect. When the jury finally filed in on the Edsel, and people began to buy into the general perception of it as a white elephant, lots of people -- concerned about what neighbors, business associates, people at church would think and say -- dumped their Edsels as fast as possible. Fair or not, we all know what "public perception" did to hasten the end of the Corvair and the Ford "firebomb" Pinto.

Considering the still spanking condition of that Tucker, might a couple of psychological factors helped motivate the once-proud owner to trade it off?

 

Whoo-ee! Nice, PLUS fast. Sort of looks like a cousin to the Packard Hawk and the Jaguar.
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 align=center><TBODY><TR><TD><CENTER></CENTER></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

That is so true!

Back in 1972 friend's uncle was a salesmen at Nero Lincoln Mercury in Bedford, Ohio. A '60 or '61 (CRS) Corvair Cargo Van (no side windows) was traded in. It would only run in reverse. He said we could have it for free if we wanted it. We "drove" it to my friend's house (in reverse) as he lived about 1 mile from the dealership. I went to the library and read in a Chilton's (remember those before internet) about an adjusting screw on the tranny (automatic). I made the adjustment, changed the tranny filter and relaced the fluid. Away we went for a summer of FUN! About 4 months later while helping his "girlfriend" move, the van loaded to the gills, it quit running forward and reverse. He had it towed to the moving destination and unloaded it. A few days later he "sold" it to Intercity Auto Wrecking in Bedford, Ohio.

Thanks swi66 for the Corvair comments.

Telling this O/T story brought back some great memories as a short few years after our Corvair adventure my friend died from a brain tumor at just 25 years old.

It similar to this one.

 

Okay, guys and gals, HERE is ONE UNUSUAL CAR -- and a challenging one, too!!!

The Carter Twin-Engine was only built in 1907 and 1908. Though, as a kid, I thought TWO engines in an automobile could be pretty great, I didn't think anyone had ever done it. WRONG! The Carter Twin-Engine literally had TWO 35-hp internal-combustion gasoline engines. TWO 35-horse engines, in 1907 ??? WOW.

I could find NO further details on this short-lived make, so it is UNKNOWN: where it was built, how many were made, what they cost, who was behind the car's invention, whether it was Byron Carter (of CarterCar fame), HOW the two motors were harnessed in the driveline, or if this car was in any way related to any the other cars with "Carter" in their names.

However, the Carter Twin-Engine was a predecessor to the Washington automobile, presumably the Washington of 1909 though 1912 (though there was another Washington -- LATER, in 1921-1924 -- it's doubtless unrelated).

 

HJ said: "Telling this O/T story brought back some great memories as a short few years after our Corvair adventure my friend died from a brain tumor at just 25 years old."

Jimi adds: Shoot. Surely sounds as if all us regulars on this thread have lost someone who was very dear to us AND who was somewhat to VERY into cars.

I miss my friend who died of a heart attack. It's been years, but it changed the world for me, in a way. I think of him about every time I work on a car or see a keen model. Like my dad, there seemed to be nothing my friend couldn't do when he put his analytical skills and hands to work. I think I got my car lust from BOTH of them -- and, surely, ANY mechanical knowledge (well, prior to the HAMB, anyway!).

 

The Facel's have been undervalued for years but not really anymore. There is a guy here in Massachusetts who has 4 of them tucked away in his barn (yep it's a barn). One of them is a 4 speed car with a later 440 engine in it. I'm sure it moves fast. This one has been for sale for a while at 190k. Really nice looking cars, especially the earlier ones.

 

I thought that picture might get your heart beating a little faster. LOL

Unfortunately I don't recall where I saved it from. I thought it may of been this thread but it wasn't there. I just found the pic in the attachment there though.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=312770&highlight=used+car+lot+pictures

 

Just a quick note on the Hemi powered Facels. There were just under 300 FV series Facels made. There were a number of different Chrysler engines used, 276 Desoto's. 330 Desoto's. 331 Chryslers and around 60 poly head Chrysler engines. The 68 FV4s were the only Facel produced with the 354/392 hi-po Hemi from the 300 series Chrysler letter cars. When Chrysler discontinued the Hemi Facel went to the 361/383 wedge motors. The hi performance version Chrysler engines were only placed into a small number of Facels and are rare among the rare. I'm surprised that several of you remembered my car. Its up for auction next week at the Russo and Steele Auction in Scottsdale, Az. If your attending stop by and say hello.

 

Hey there, Larry! We've been having a good time kicking around all the great info about a rare -- and somewhat misunderstood -- car. You have ONE beautiful FV, for sure. Being a '57, does it have the 354 or the 392? Also, I normally wouldn't give a fig about a French transmission, but what about this Pont a Mousson? Since it was around for so long, I imagine it was "proven," as they say -- tough and smooth-shifting? Thanks for your post!!!



Also, NOT asking you to talk out of school, but I assume you'll have some reserve on the car. Can you give me a "range" of what you'd expect such a rare car should go for in today's market? Or, HIGH end?

 

The Pont a Mousson was used in trucks for some time in Europe. When Facel started looking for a 4 speed to put behind the Hemis . The relationship of Facel and Pont a Mousson came into play. As such when Chrysler started looking for a 4sp for the 300 series the relationship of Daninos and Lester (Lum ) Colbert and CB Thomas of Chrysler provided the link for the transmissions finding their way to the 300 .

My FV4 has the 354/345 hp dual quad solid lifter Hemi with a Powerflite trans. Facels have flown under the radar for quite some time. The V8 powered cars were up there with the best of the era. We need to remember what 50's cars were. they all had their little faults and idiosychryses.

As far a Facel values go. I'm fearful of mentioning price . The most recent Facels sold have ranged from $40k for a barn find type car to a little over $200k for some nice driver quality stuff . Dont know what a show quality car will bring as there are not many out there. It should be interesting since there is another FV4 at B&J . I 'm unsure of the quality of the car as I have never seen it. When you get down to it . If two people can not agree on an amount of money that allows the car to transfer ownership it has no value and is just a car in the garage.

Wish me luck . Ina Mae needs to get going.

 

Fair enough, Larry! GREAT input! (BTW, dat's a ton o' dough!) -- Jimi

 

I'll give you a plug as these cars have always been severely undervalued in my opinion. They are much better looking then a dual ghia yet they bring much less money. I think one issue is the low production means there are not many cars which in theory would be good but there is little support system in the way of a club, at least in America. Your car is spectacular and I wish you the best of luck.