Link to a photo of the Packard Grey Wolf in the 1904 Vanderbilt Cup race. http://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/vcrsys/Images/Alco/Scanned_Photo-36-1.jpg
Thanks Rapid Robert! This is what I truely love about the HAMB, all these pieces of the pizzle coming together on all types of cars and topics.
Thanks Bob. I will enter this 'corrected' data into the photo comments on my bucket site. Have learned one thing about auto racing history, much of it is haphazard and innacurate at the time of writing. Thanks again
I have read 'somewhere'? (think it was a NY Times Article) that the 1915 Pan Pacific course was part dirt and part board - if so it could help explain the narrowness of the boardtrack in the photo. edit: Found it (scroll down to 1915 Vanderb Races) http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9C03E7D61138E633A25751C0A9669D946496D6CF "March 6th Vand Cup contested On San Francisco Pan Paciific Expo Grounds over specifically constructed road course built of dirt and wood, 3.9 miles 77 laps" #27 John Marquis in his Bugatti started 24th and finished 26th dropping out on lap 17 with suspension breakage. fwiw: There was another race on this course a week earlier - Feb 27th '1915 Grands Prix" with Marquis completing only 6 laps with 'ignition problems' Dario Resta won both races and Bob Burman won two races Southern Sweepstakes 4/29 and Burlington 7/9.(sounds like the notation on back of photos is a bit mixed up) also, 1915 saw the farewell of 33 AAA Drivers and besides racing casualties may be accounted for by the 1916 AAA Schedule that dropped 7 of the 9 1915 roadcourses. I believe something similar (driver change over) happened in 1930 with the new AAA formula and the demise of the boardtracks.
No problem, The37Kid. The A-Y-P Endurance Race has largely been forgotten to history. As I recall, one or both of the Model T's won the race, but were later disqualified on a technicality. As the story goes, and I'm sure there is somebody out there that knows the whole story, either one or both of the 1909 Ford racers were donated to Henry Ford for his museum, but were deemed historically insignificant and were recycled, read destroyed, to make new Fords. Attached is the real deal. The Thomas Flyer, crossing the UP tracks a few miles west of Archer, WY, just before entering Cheyenne. This photo was taken March 8, 1908. Behind the wheel is Mony Roberts, famous race car driver: next to him is George Schuster, chief mechanic; behind in the single seat is Capt. Hans Hansen, explorer and at this point, mostly extra baggage; and George Miller, mechanic, dangling off one of the long planks that ran the length of the car during the US portion of the race. This is a favorite photo because of the horse in the background. You can almost hear it saying "What the hell?". Bob.
There was a similar Bugatti that ran in the 1915 INDY 500 with chain drive. A normal shaft drive Bug ran in the 1914 INDY 500
The story goes my young father (an immigrant from Stuttgart) folowed the progress of The German 'Protos Team' with feverish enthusiasm and was uncontrollably wild with joy when the first reports of Protos victory reached him in Boston. The joy quickly devolved into shock and dissolusionment when he learned they had been penalized for cheating by loading the car on a train in Ogedn UT, he never again followed motorsports.
Carl S - Even today, many European auto historians believe the New York-Paris race began anew when the remaining cars reached Vladivostok, and recognize the German Protos as the winner since it arrived in Paris first.
That race, if you want to call it one, was destined from the outset to be won by the Thomas. With the New York Times as the main sponsor along with the French equivalent, La Matin, sales was the biggest priority. It was something that both publishers had learned from the previous years Peiking to Paris race where lots of money was made in newspaper sales. As to the race itself, one of the rules stipulated that no car could ride the train tracks which is bewildering considering that none of the cars entered had a wheel track able to perform this but the Thomas Motor Co. played the rules and and had the Flyer registered as a Union Pacific train and just to be safe a conductor rode along. Another piece of handyworks by the Thomas team was it's inability to keep the same driver throughout the race. When the car left NY the driver was the company's employee, Montague Roberts, but he was replaced by E. Linn Mathewson, a Denver car dealer, then when they reached Utah he gave way to Harold Brinker who later withdrew at San Francisco and thats when George Schuster took over the driving duties for the remainder of the race. In fact if it wasn't for him the car would never have made it out of the country or to Paris. The head of the company even stated before the race that none of the competitors would make it to Chicago, even his own model, but it did and it kept on going which is probably the reason why Roberts and the other drivers bailed out. Many articles have been written about this race and as Carl had pointed out earlier, there are some inaccuracies. When the winner was declared months later some reports have the Protos incuring a fifteen day penalty, others say it was twenty six days. Whichever it was it was considerably harsh to finish second to a car that didn't resemble the same one that left New York. If there was a winner, i'd have to say it would be the Italian Zust. In the end both newspapers made lots of money, the Thomas Motor Co. was said to have spent $100.000 dollars and was slow on paying George Schuster his wages. In fact Schuster was never paid his $1000 dollars first prize by the New York Times until the late sixties, when the man was 95 years old. Oh yeah, if you ever see a photo of the Flyer wearing a #49 on it's body, that was it's designated number given to it by the Union Pacific Railroad. That's right, a TRAIN was the winner of the 1908 New York to Paris race.
Mac we have been over this territory before and I do not want to beat a dead horse but I believe there are only two incarnations of the Grey Wolf today. The one my grandfather did which if I owned the car I would make it more correct in appearance (not overly difficult in my opinion) and the Ted Davis' car above (next to the motorhome). You will note that Ted Davis built his car to match the look it had at Daytona as opposed to the picture above also with Schmidt behind the wheel. The picture with Schmidt is as it looked during the Vanderbilt Cup with different bodywork and the placement of the cooling tubes. Ted Davis acknowledges that he built his car from scratch including the engine (although he did a great job obviously). The one done by my grandfather now in the Packard Museum in Ohio at least has something original to the car, that being the Model K engine. If your boss did any restoration work on "the real deal" it would have had to be the one my grandfather did and the only thing that was done out of house that I remember was the bodywork which is the part that is not right anyway. There is not one complete Packard racer that survived intact-only parts and pieces. Probably the most intact would be the Twin Six Packard racer that survived with a pretty complete body and running gear although most of the engine was missing, now owned by Greg Dawson. The 299 and 23 racers stuff is incomplete to say the least and the 905 engine in the Smithsonian may not be the same engine that set the land speed record as it has a aero crankcase on it and may be one of the experimental aero 905s as tested.-Jim
Well, yes. One has been. It's called "The Greatest Auto Race on Earth" and was released in 2008. It is a made for television documentary that has yet to be broadcast in the US. I contributed to the production. It is available on DVD on the internet. Bob.
Are you refering to the movie THE GREAT RACE. ?? I read somewhere that the movie was loosely based on the Fairmont Park Races at Philadelphia. ...also, i think there was a documentary made about the 1908 race with all of the cars being rebuilt or made from scratch. I know they tried to recreate it for the centenary but had problems with the Chinese authorities revoking visa's for all foreign competitors. Luckily the Australian's didn't have such problems when they recreated the 1907 Pieking to Paris race.
The documentary "The Greatest Auto Race on Earth" was filmed in Alberta during 2007 and post production in 2008 after almost four years of writing and research. Fully functional replicas of both the Thomas Flyer and the German Protos were built by a Hot Rod shop (the name escapes me) in Edmonton, AB. The vehicles were used to recreate famous scenes from the race with costumed actors. More deatails can be found at www.thegreatestautorace.com. Both of the vehicles used in the film now reside at the Reynolds-Alberta Museum in Wetaskiwin, AB (a fanstastic transportation museum) along with an extensive New York-Paris archive of research and original photographs used in the documentary. The 2008 New-Paris Race reenactment for vintage automobiles and alternative fuel vehicles, slated to start from New York City in May of 2008, crumbled into ruins for many reasons not the least of which was visa problems with the Chinese govenment. Another start was planned for 2009, but disappeared as well. The documentary film was not associated with the reenactment in any way. In October and November of 2008, a casual group of people and vehicles from many locations in the US, Canada and even Germany got together on their own to honor the centennial of the New York-Paris Race and drive their various vintage and otherwise vehicles from New York to SanFancisco. Visit www.longestautoracecent.com to have a look a their adventures. Bob.
Today`s find. http://www.shorpy.com/node/263?size=_original Marchese Rajo and a wild assortment of 20s Dirt Track machines.
Is this the same Thomas that Roberts drove in the 1906 Vanderbilt Cup elimination trial? Looking at photos from that race, this car looks very similar to the one that Hubert LeBlon drove in the race.
Could be. Or a sister car.Montague Roberts was driving for Thomas in the 06 Elimination race as well. This is Le Blon. http://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/vcrsys/Images/Alco/Scanned_Photo-33-3_edite1.jpg
Yes. There were three cars entered for the '06 race. Hubert Le Blon, Monty Roberts and Gustave Cailloise but only the Frenchman Le Blon qaulified for the American team. He was also the first to start the race. Roberts also drove in the '05 and '08 race i think. Here is a great photo from the 1908 Vanderbilt Cup showing the Thomas crew hard at work prior to the race.
Great photo Kurtis. The Cailloise Thomas in 06 had an unusual tail. http://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/vcrsys/Images/Alco/Scanned_Photo-86_edited-1.jpg
Great photo Kurtis. The Cailloise Thomas in 06 shows the unusual tail of the Thomas cars. http://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/vcrsys/Images/Alco/Scanned_Photo-86_edited-1.jpg
I have a question for any of you who would happen to know the details of how Joe Boyer became involved in auto racing. This is for a piece on Joe that I am working on for several folks on my racing history discussion board that expressed interest. I have Joe at Indy in 1915,qualifying the Cornelian for Louis Chevrolet. It appears that Boyer rode mechanician in the race. Apparently Joe Qualified Louis Chevrolet`s 1916 mount as well and may have rode in the rt seat again. Does anyone have any racing history for Joe prior to Indy 1915? Any photos of Joe Boyer during his career and also any observations or info on Joe would be most appreciated! This is strictly a non-commercial effort that will probably be hosted on my Smugmug album for those interested. Thanks! Tony D.
It would be great to do a piece on Joe Boyer as so little has been written. He almost is a footnote. I believe his father was President of Burroughs and Joe came from money. I have very little information on him though. In my grandfather's notes he states that Joe Boyer was an occasional visitor to the experimental department at Packard (when my grandfather worked there). According to my grandfather, his father was a pretty big stockholder of Packard and his familiarity may have helped him get his ride in the 23 racers, although in my research I have not come across any smoking gun in this regards. Unless my memory is totally gone I cannot remember any reference prior to the Cornelian. Joe Boyer was born in St Louis but I have read he lived in Detroit much of his life (as his dad lived in Detroit). In 1915 Louis Chevrolet had a racecar shop over on Grand River in Detroit. He later moved his racing operation to Indy but Joe may have found himself hanging around some race car shops such as Louis' place and the Packard experimental shop where they had a number of racecars. Surprisingly I do not have him over at DePalma's race shop he had with the Book brothers. If I can think of anything else I will try and get it to you. I think it is great if we can fill in some of the blanks on these great racers and try and change them from a simple footnote to a more complete character. -Jim
Thanks for your observations,Jim. The Detroit connections make sense. I`ve seen Burroughs compared with IBM when they were at their peak in a different era. Joe didn`t need to race for the money,as far as I know. Just conjecture,but from things I`ve read,etc,Joe Boyer was a man about town.He was happy go lucky and liked the nightlife and the ladies. De Palma was known to be very straitlaced and always serious in his racing. That may be why Boyer didn`t hang around De Palma before the Packard effort in 1923. By many accounts Boyer was was is known as a Hard Charger. His record didn`t reflect how good he really was. Interestingly,two of Joe Boyer`s three AAA Championship race wins were when he drove to the finish in relief after his own mount failed. The big one,of course was Indy in 1924. I can only wonder how many wins he might have taken if that tire hadn`t blown at Altoona in 1924.....
Tony, I found a pic on Flikr sometime ago and i remember the gentleman who posted it mentioned that Joe Boyer was his great uncle. I guess if you leave a comment he might be able to provide some more information. Here's the link.. www.flikr.com/photos/hockpooh777/2985102137 You probably have these pics but if you don't.....
Thanks kurtis. I have those photos,but the Boyer family member is interesting. I left word for him to contact me if he would like to view my piece on Joe Boyer. Once on flickr a relative of Leon Duray or someone involved in the Packard Cable team posted a beautiful hi res photo of Leon at Indy in 1929. I`m always looking for that kind of thing.
Don't know if they've been posted, but here are some patent drawings for the "walking beam" Duesenberg engine:
The Jalopy Journal
