Diving Off the Deep End: My 1956 Buick Project

I am not 100% sure our 65-70 rear setups work with the earlier rears. I attached the axle housing flange diagram, one day we may get an answer for this...

 

I cant seem to find a rebuild kit for my master cylinder and a new one is super expensive. I did find one in Kanter (here) but its kind of ambiguous as to weather or not it actually goes to my car. Would this one work?

Another question is I have a 4bbl crater carb and a 2bbl. Both need rebuilding, which should I use? Whats the best way to get them unseized?

Ryland

 

Hit ebay too. I got a NOS rebuild kit for my 55 Buicks master cylinder for $5 on there a while back. Dont' remember seeing it yet, but someone probably told you already to not forget to change the flywheel over to the new motor, as the dynaflow one won't mesh well with a 3spd. The radiator support being bent I've found before, I had to cut the one on my 55 in half to straighten it and get it to fit again it had been pulled out so bad. On another note, how was towing that with an Izuzu Trooper , I know most will agree when it comes to towing, bigger is better. Towed both my Buicks with 1/2 ton trucks before and that alot of weight for even those.
Welcome to the Buick family. As you are finiding pretty much everything for that car is expensive & Buick changed their brakes I think every year up until the late 50's I believe it was (genius ). Like pretty much everyone has hsaid, just take it slow & don't plan on everything going right the first time, especially with this being YOUR first time.

 

from what I have foud when I was researching mine, the 56 master cylinder is a one year only production (thus very expensive). And even if you drop he big bucks for one, you still have amaster that they only made for one year (what did they know that made them not want to keep making it) and worse yet, a single resevoir system that has the potential to kill you dead if you ever have a leak fromone of your 55 year old wheel cylinders. If you have never experienced total brake failure (I have in a 61 corvair) that comes from a single resevoir... consider yourself lucky and try to avoid ever experiencing it. My solution is to put a booster and master ont he firewall (which is goign to be a big modification, but you might find a frame or low firewall mounted solution that works for you by talking to the people here...

http://www.nationalhotrodsupply.com/brake-power-assy.htm#

 

On my 56 Buick Wagon I removed the drivers side Airbox and used it for a pattern for a steel plate to mount the booster and master on. Then I used a universal hanging pedal kit from No-Limit Engineering for the inside to complete the system. This worked very well.

 

buikwag, can I ask what you did as far as the drainage coming down the windshield with that set up? Pics would really help me too. (not trying to hijack, just could use the help).

 

Buikwag: I am curious about that too, more information would be great.

piche582: I looked and the only one on there is for 3 sets and it was at $50 when I looked at it last. Towing with the trooper wasn't bad, it did sway a little bit a couple of times but a few seconds off the gas pedal calmed it down. I even managed to pull it up a big a hill, that was intense.

Any comments on the Kanter kit? Is it the right one?

Thanks,
Ryland

 

It's probably easier and cheaper to replace the entire braking system with an upgraded unit!
The universal system might be ok, but it probably needs to be altered.
Any pics of your progress so far?

 

I have a pictures but they are pretty boring as not a whole lot has changed. I will post some of before and after straightening out the radiator support. I spent an hour our so banging on it today and got it mostly straightened out, now i'm just going to cut a few of the really bad sections out and replace them.

What do you mean by upgraded unit? Like adapting different drums or swapping to disks?

Does anyone have a list of all the different MC specs? Or does anyone know there are any that share common specs to that of a 56 buick?

Ryland

 

I swear I already posted this but I guess not...

Well here is how the radiator support looked when I pulled it out of the car:




Here is after an hour or two of heating, bending, and hammering:


It still needs a lot of work, I plan on cutting the bad parts out, hammering them flat and welding them back in.

Here is my home made propane burned turned heating torch by adding a fart can to it:


I usually use it in my black smithing forge but it worked well for this too.

Any thoughts on my MC problem? If I do switch to a more modern MC what all do I need to look at? Bore size and travel? Any makes that are better than others?

Thanks,
Ryland

 

was this property in Oregon if so where? I think I might pay these people a visit someday

 

After reading through all nine pages (so far), I have a few comments and suggestions to offer.

1. Look for a deal on a Tri-Five radiator, they'll drop right in. You'll probably have to run the hoses differently but that's no big deal. I got tired of trying to find a deal and had mine rebuilt, and it cost about $300 at a small local radiator shop. I'm told that's pretty typical.

2. For brakes, I'd strongly recommend rebuilding the original system. A Scarebird conversion is going to cost you quite a bit more, and the original system works really well and parts are cheap once you've gone through it. The guy named below did a $250 rebuild of my 55 master cylinder (with a 48-hour turn-around, and that includes shipping) when I was trying to get to a show last year. I couldn't even get somebody like Kanter to ship me the rebuild parts that quickly...

Ed Strain
6555 44th St, Unit 2006
Pinellas Park, FL 33781
800-266-1623

3. Tons of good knowledge and helpful people on the Antique Auto Club of America website. They're mostly concours guys who worry about getting the right color paint daubs on bolts and stuff, but they still know a lot and will help you. Also their Buick for-sale section is very busy. I only tell you this because on a 56 wagon you won't be competing with me for 55 Super trim parts.

http://forums.aaca.org/f162/

http://forums.aaca.org/f117/

4. Buicks had a novel method of starting the engine -- you'd press the gas pedal. Partial press was for starting a warm engine, full press was for a cold start. You'll see this in the manual. It isn't clear how to keep this cool functionality with an alternator conversion. I'm about to do a GM one-wire swap on mine. There is reference info in this TeamBuick thread. Or you can do like a lot of guys and just run a button under the dash or whatever.

http://www.teambuick.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15403

5. A good friend of mine (with a much cooler 55 than mine) gave me a spray bottle full of penetrating oil called Kryoil. It's super-fucking expensive, and worth every time. It makes PB Blaster look like sugar water. I don't know what's in this stuff, but his company uses it to break loose parts that have been submerged in sea water. A few squirts and a totally nasty old chunk of rust will unscrew itself like it was brand new. Find a gallon jug and blow the money, and use it often but carefully, and you'll never regret it.

6. When searching for parts, keep in mind that the Special and the Super are different sizes -- including width. There are tons of Specials around (and the Century derivative, of course), but something like headliner bows are not going to fit from a Super or a Roadmaster or whatever.

Old Buicks are cool. Not many people have them (there are negatives to that, too), and they did some interesting stuff with them. I damned-near bought a wagon a few weeks back, except that my garage is full and my Super isn't even close to done yet.

I've seen you post on TeamBuick, you'll get a lot of help there, and you might be able to just search for answers on the AACA site I linked. Good luck with the build, and like everybody else said, don't rush it, this one is going to take awhile.

 

Uhhh... the bottom port on the radiator is on the other side from a SBC, so that's a no go.

Can you point me to an alternator bracket that's a bolt on?

 

bigroy: Its 5 hours north of Portland, up above Seattle in Washington.

I called Ed and he told me that he only does power units for that year, I have a manual. He told me to call White Post and they want $350 to do it, sounds like they would do a kick ass job doing it but that is almost how much I paid for the whole car. If I wanted to spend that much money I might as well switch to discs.

Here is the part of my manual that tells the specifications of my breaks:

(Click for a larger image)

What specifications do I need to match when seeing if I could use a different MC?

Thanks,
Ryland

 

Which is why I said you'd have to run the hoses differently. My friend's 55 Special runs just fine with the outlet on the opposite side.

Nobody makes one, as far as I've been able to tell, and I've been looking regularly for almost two years. There are a lot of options for the newer, larger nailheads, but not a 50's 322.

 

I'd rather just have the stock one recored than try and play radiator hose gymnastics..."let's make a u turn and go over the the other side then a turn up and out". You can just use a generic Ford style radiator and save a whole bunch of headache, you still have to fab up mounts anyway.

 

If you have manual brakes you're screwed for a cheap fix. I'd start looking at hot rod stuff. The manual brakes are 56 only and rare even on 56. If by some miracle the master cylinder isn't pitted so far it needs sleeved you could rebuild it.

 

Hello
Walton Fab here, we are ready to build up a rear bolt suspension for these cars, we are recieving the frame on 1/27/10, we should be posting some pictures of the project as we design and build it, it will be offered for sale when complete, we'll keep you posted
Todd

 

Hi again

Walton Fab here again, the new rear suspension will allow any rear axle, use the stock coil springs and will be great when you do you engine swap and need an open drive line.

 

hurry!!!!!

 

Can you be more specific by what you mean by "hot rod stuff"? What is the difference in master cylinders that I need to know so I can find a different unit that works.

Thanks,
Ryland

 

bump... anyone?

 

I think you arent gettign a response because there is no one "right" answer. 'hot rod stuff' just means the stuff rom aftermarket suppliers that is for no particular aplication. You are now venturing into "custumization" of your 56... welcome.

As far as the specs... pretty much any of the masters from the website I posted can work your wheel cylinders, but you have to 1) figure out how and where you want to mount it, 2) if you can make your current pedalks work or need to 'use hot rod pedals' which just means a few more engineering challenges for you, 3) if you intend to run disc brakes, 4) if you want to run power brakes (i.e. a brake booster as well as a master).

If you take the old one off, you can look and see how you think you might be able to fit anoutehr one in there (maybe making an angle bracket to hold it as I think the firewall is angled there and the master will want to be level. If you could bracket it and extend the rod, you 'might' get your current pedals to work, IF you can mound it without interfering with anything else like headers or steering.

If you cant mount it there, you might try one of hte 'under the floor' types, but then you have to cut an access panel in your floor for fluid checks, put a check valve to keep the fluid from backing if it is lower than the wheel cylinders, and probabyl have to modify pedals.

Or you mount higher on the firewall, and change pedals to push up where you need it.

Of course moving to a dual resevoir master will require you to run new brake lines (one line to the front and one to the rear, but your old steel lines are 55 yrs old anyway, so it is time. And all rubber lines will need replaced as well.

Its all part of the fun.

 

Freil01 hit it on the head.

 

Thank you friel01, that was exactly what I was looking for.

Ryland

 

looks like a big project to me. have fun !!!!

 

Ryland,
No problem on the advice. I will tell you also that there are actually considerations on the master, there are drum/drum, disc/drum, or disc/disc versions (so that is why you want to make those decisions before you drop the $ for a new master). But again, talking to the people who ell the stuff can probabyl answer more questions about what variables to consider than I can.

Also, dont get discouraged! If you could knock these things out in 3 days like on tv, everyone would drive cool cars! I know it can seem kind of overwhelming when you stand back and look at the big picture, so it is usually not a good idea to do that too much! Instead, just try to focus on the individual projects that make up the whole. Each individual task doesnt seem as daunting or out of reach. I know that approach got me through my truck project.

You are doing a great job, and will really have a cool car when you are done. Keep it up. (oh, adn if it were me, I would pull the front clip off (i.e. the fenders and hood), as it will be awhile before you need them, they are easy to take off, and you will be happy to have them out of the way for all of the time you have to get in there to work on stuff.

Brian

 

I remember the rust in the roof, and don't remember if it included some of the drip rail. Here is a good post of repairing a 55 Chevy wagon roof.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=432621

 

I think I'm going to buy the master cylinder off of the national hot rod supply website, http://www.nationalhotrodsupply.com/brake-cylinder.htm , the first one on the list. In the picture it doesn't have a push-rod to go the brake pedal. Do you just thread one in or what? Do I need a special prop valve to use this cylinder with my breaks (stock drum/drum)?

Thanks,
Ryland

 

bump

Thanks!
Ryland