Messing with a VIN tag can get you an orange jump suit!

Uh-oh...I smoothed my engine-block! "Hands against the car, pal!...Spread 'em!"

 

i hope its a long way off , buit who knows?
according to the federal law posted on this thread, knowingly selling a "part" off of a car that has had its vin plate destroyed is a crime.
liberally interpreted that could mean that any part sold after it is removed and the car crushed would or could constitute a federal crime.

i know that has nothing to do with registering a car, but, they didn't write that just for fun. they wrote it so that they can use it when and if they decide to.
when they, those in power, decide to, theywill pull the plug on our hobby. hopefully it will not be without a fight.
learn what can and cannot be done in your state. use this info and do things right and the law will not bother you.
join sema or san and become part of the fight or solution, depending on how you look at it.

having said all that, right now in arkansas it is realitively to register and lisence a car without a title, provided that it meets certian criteria.
do your homework before you spend a bunch of money and none of this is a problem right now.

 

another thing to consider is, that now that the government basically owns the car industry, it will be easier for the industry to push crusher agendas and move to an all leased public fleet.
once again , i hope these things are a long way off, but if a lowly hot rodder like me can think up these senarios, believe that the people in high places have much worse in store.
radical environmentalists and greedy businessmenn and politicians care very little for what we do.
we need to think like bikers and do what we can to protect our rights, again i remind you to support groups like sema and san.

 

As usual, follow the rules and you'll generally be fine.
Break the rules and it's anything goes.

 

You guys think small. Who else has to look at that 'VIN'? Depending on your state, and in no certain order...

DMV
The Police
Emissions Station
Safety Inspection Station
Insurance Salesman
--->Insurance Claims Guy !!!
Probably a few others I've missed.

Guess what the first thing is that I get a picture of? Would you believe the serial number? Followed by the odometer and the license plate. I'll also get a pic of the cowl tag, data tag, fender tag, etc., depending on the make. Would you like to insult the knowledge of the insurance guy telling him the trophy store VIN is legit? Think it might be possible to have your claim denied because the car isn't what you said it was?

Insurance companies have the SIU department. Special Investigations Unit. These guys look into fraud and auto theft. Guess who they have contacts with? The DMV, the police and any other bureau that deals in auto theft.

Now, the insurance guy isn't there to necessarily pound someone's balls with a hammer, but if we smell a rat, it gets relayed. Give me an attitude because I asked where the serial number is, and I relay the problem.

I recently had a '32 Ford that was made of fiberglass and a new frame and was built in 1999. Surprise, surprise, it had a 1932 Ford serial number on it and it wasn't on the frame rail. And the serial number was on a little trophy store plate that was pop rivited to the fiberglass firewall. Do you think this is legit?

 

Tell it Brother! This why supporting SEMA is so important. Keeping stupid legislation and over regulation from destroying this great passion. Common sense is increasingly less common.

 

tags falling off are a problem. if you have ever had any vehicle stolen from you having that "so-called" dmv asshole on your side will bring a smile to your face if you ever find your vehicle. these days i have too much to lose by driving up and sticking a gun in some scumbags face!i really enjoy spending time with my grandaughter. karma is true bitch!

 

Selling a vehicle without numbers matching the title can certainly be a problem if the buyer is from out of state and can't find any numbers when he returns to his state and needs the numbers verification from an officer of the state. How hot would you be after having to return the buyer's money and wait for the return of your after YOU prove it was yours to sell and on and on.

Common sense says be sure the car has numbers that match the paperwork and you won't have a problem.

 

I agree with what is stated above! if we keep pushing our luck it will fall down on all of us. If you don't believe it is getting serious just go to Broadway titles site in AL and see the growing list of States they cannot process for. I know this because IL is one of them and seizing any title from them. They have made one of our local guys miserable over it! To the point of threatening prosecution.

 

This sounds like the thread for Criminal Minds! The pros and cons are so broad. So many states, countries, different laws, Depending on year of vehicle, Vin tag placement, title jumping. We all have probably seen what has been saved from the crusher here. Bill of sale. Really how usefull is it? The coupes, A's, trucks pulled from the woods and fields. Yes this is something to think about...but not overthink.
Vin tag: Like I not only read here but experienced myself. Totally non-legable vin tag.
so whats that going to tell us or the law? ok Im going to pass up the 32 3 window coupe from the old womens farm She has no paper work and the vin has rusted off for $25.00? Maybe I need educated on this but if you bought a glass body, who puts the Vin tag on? Laws are contradictive when written. Thats why Lawyers are in business. When you use a titled frame from an S 10 does that make your body an S10. Why not it's only metal on a frame? We all know why that don't work. The Law say's so. But a titled body on a non titled s-10 frame is ok. This is so wide in do's and don'ts. By the way...if you see that old women with the 32 3 window.....tell her Im on my way!

 

10 years for vin tag-- just watched the news and a fellow got 2yrs jail and 8yrs probation for vehicle manslaughter? okay i get it ,we car hoodlums are more dangerous to the community.

 

Swiftster brings up a very valid and salient point. You have your car insured for, let's say, $20K (the amount is really not relevant). Your shop catches fire and the car is destroyed; nothing but a blackened hulk. On the vast majority of vehicles, the VIN/serial number/engine number is still going to be visible, somewhere. Unless the car is melted to the ground, it'll be there. You have played fast and loose with the numbers, and now the car is destroyed. You want the insurance to pay out on it. The insurance smells a rat. Guess what? Because of your laziness, or unwillingness to do things LEGALLY in reference to registering and titling said pride and joy, you are going to be OUT the money you had in that car. And, the insurance is required, BY LAW, to report this to the cops. So, now you can be charged not only with VIN tampering and false documentation, you can be charged with insurance fraud and theft by deception, too.

The answer to this burning question is oh, so fuclking obvious - DO SHIT RIGHT IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! People want to take shortcuts, find loopholes, and other shit for convenience, deception, or any of a number of things. It is so easy, generally speaking, to do things right the FIRST time. So what if there is bureaucracy involved? Hell, life is like that, deal with it! Do it right.

Let's say you die, and now your family has to deal with a car(s) with jacked-up or fraudulent documentation. That $30K car you left them now becomes a $50K albatross. You really want to do that?

 

Don't fuck with your VIN tag or commit vehicular manslaughter and you have nothing to worry about. Next problem.

Seriously. We all know this and we all know the rules. Just because you break the rules doesn't mean the rule you broke is bad and the man is coming down on you and the government and all the other "shadow people" are out to get you. It just means you broke the law and got caught, so when that happens, don't cry about it.

These threads seem like a bunch of people cheerleading for breaking the law. If you break the law and get caught, you are a criminal. I try not to be a criminal, I thought most people did?

 

On a fiberglass or a new steel body the state where you are registering assigns the VIN number and installs the tag or has a representative install the tag!

 

If you buy 3 -32 ford tudors from the wreckers. All with titles. Transfer them into your name. Build a vehicle with different motor#, Body# 2 different frame# Take the car and titles to your DMV .What title would they use?

 

Around here, a new builders title. But maybe you should talk to a company that specializes in titles in your area. SEMA might have some suggestions too.

Threads like this kinda show there are more than than one way to do things. Some are "approved" ways and some are "get by" ways. You buy your ticket, you take your chances. Just don't bitch if the "get by" ways bite you in the ass and you lose your stuff.
Larry T

 

Yes sir.

 

Ok now you can hear from somebody that got into hot water for vin tag problems. Me! I bought a 73 chev PK for $150.oo from a neighbor who brought it from louisiana. The vin on the cab matched the title. It was a really junky POS I later sold the truck at the car auction in Jonesboro Ark for $385.oo . The dealer that bought it after a couple of days apparently deceided he paid too much. So he starts looking and the hidden Vin,s dont match the title. Bingo im in serious trouble . I have to pay back the money. The truck was held until they checked it out. It was finally determined that somebody in louisiana made one truck out of the best parts of two different trucks. Both of wich he owned free and clear. nothing stolen but he was supposed to notify the louisiana DMV of the facts but he didnt. The final outcome was I got the truck back with a dead title. I was informed to junk it . I parted it out for over $500.oo . You can bet this is one guy that wont sell titles or mess with a suspicious VIn or title. It just aint worth the risk to me. OldWolf

 

The laws are only wrote to keep honest people honest. Crooks are crooks, and will do what crooks do. I really don't see what the problem is; old cars, that for the most part, are just parts being made into complete cars by an individual. Chop shops and shady dealers, that's a whole different thing, and that's where the deterent is aimed. OK, so there's a few "illegal" VINS out there; there's 14 MILLION illegal aliens out there also. Lets get something done about that! Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

What if you swap cabs?

 

------------------------
Aw....don't sweat it. With time off for good
behaviour and a positive parole board report,
you could be out and back on the street in
75 years!

Mart3406
===========================

 

I've sold several 6 figure deuces in foreign countries that had aftermarket VIN tags on the frame and they have all went thru customs in both countries and have been licensed in the foreign country. 2 of them had to pass European inspection standards for foreign built cars and did so with no problems. I have also sold turnkeys in the US including CA with no problems. Should I be packing my bag and kissing the wife goodbye or have I just been lucky?

 

Don't cut the one off the matress either

 

The US cannot prosecute terrorists becasue the lawyers make the money while we give them aplace to live, eat and amenities. But we do have more prisoners than any place on earth. And yes the marshals can give you hard time about that vin.

I had a prostreet Monte Carlo about ten years ago and the guy who built in Ohio put an alum dash in it so the vin had to be moved from th fact dash.. A sheriff was making his rounds at a swap meet here in Tx and inquired about the dash being non OE and how I got a vin on a homemade dash and a bunch of other bull sh questions. He told me that he could impound the vehicle just becasue of the vin being removed from the original dash. I told him that if thats the case then he'll have to round up most of the people out here selling cars. That was about ten years ago, maybe its different now. But our lawmen (the bounty hunters) are looking for everything to keep them lawyers busy and rich.

The lawmen round up the criminals, the cute lawyers make all the money and our fine judicial system reaps the rewards.

When hot rods are oultlawed, maybe, we'll all be outlaws!??

Mikey

 

Interior fire will cause a glued on one to fall off, may melt an aluminum one, and those plastic ones on the Caddy I mentioned? Forget it. So if your Caddy doesn't have the original motor, you have a problem?

My buddy's rollback had an engine/cab fire and the tag came off - and this was a 1995, not some old piece of shit. Maybe there's "hidden" numbers on it somewhere, but the insurance paid off on it and I couldn't see where anyone ever dug around the ruined mess looking for one.

Now a Model A or something that has it stamped in the frame, yeah, the number's going to still be there, but most others? I know one hidden location for certain Mopars is a stamp in the floorpan at the rear of the trunk. Which is also one of the most common rot areas for those cars, so unless you have a southwestern car, it's probably gone too. Combine that with door tags that were falling off them when they were still relatively new and what happens then?

 

It's also illegal to make animals sounds in the state of Florida.

 

And lets not forget that it is illegal in Port Arthur, Texas to emit obnoxious odors while in an elevator. That, can get you a new set of stripped clothes.

 

That what was done to the truck i had. The Vin on the frame didnt match the cab. The cab swapper was supposed to take both titles to the revenue dept and they probably would have issued a salvage title that reflected the changes. I seriously doubt that any one would be prosecuted and convicted for Hamb type cars. Its thiefs of high dollar cars therye after. Why ?Because insurance companies lose on those type crimes. OldWolf

 

Dudes, I'm the guy who wrote that VIN thing in the first place.

For background, I own a '31 Chevy project that doesn't have a number on it anywhere. I'm making a cowl and will figure out where the tag goes when the time comes.

All I was really trying to say was, don't be cavalier with that tag, if you have one. Messing with it can--and has--resulted in trouble. Here's a scenario: Someone restores a car in good faith, and as part of that does something with the VIN, it doesn't matter what. Somewhere down the line, some other yahoo turns up with a car with the same number on it. Somebody looks at the two cars and compares notes and before you know it, there's a summons with your name on it. It just opens up opportunities for the law, insurance companies, whoever, to get involved.

Whether you listen to me is up to you.

 

In SC it is unlawful to molest deer while any part of the deer is in water:
SECTION 50-9-1120. 2-a http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t50c009.htm