Looking for method to thread water pump heater hose

Riddler.....is that you?............it's me Mr. Freeze.

 

OK, it's obvious the nipple on the WP has been hot. You unintentionally hardened the cast iron.
I'll bet a file will glide over it.

 

Hey don't give up yet, do what my brother does and find the biggest hammer he can find and go to work on it. At least that's what he did to the last car he had that won't start...

 

correct me if i'm wrong, but you are wanting to block off the heater hose barb? i know someone who rebuilds waterpumps, he does not recimend this because when the engine starts,it allowes the water to circulate at the waterpump(water is a liquid has to move when the impeller rotates). just figure out a neat way to run the heater from the waterpump to the heater outlet on the head or block

 

I think you are looking at the Marine-Tex.

From the photo, it looks like you used the M-T as a glue. It is a filler. Probably why it failed.

I like the broomstick idea - easy to drill and tap (just kidding).

Surprised the solution to this dilemma is not more black and white (white and black?).

 

Ok simple fix.. Use a piece of hose and two hose clamps and a pipe sleeve that fits inside the hose. Place the pipe sleeve in the end of hose and clamp down. Place other end of hose on pump and clamp down. Screw what you have into the pipe sleeve and you are done. Simple and no modification to pump is necessary.

 

Yes, but that would look slim shadied and it is clear that he is trying to have all of the plumbing minted out.

 

I vote longest thread for simplest job ever. I see know way possible, even if the hole was oblong that it could'nt have been rounded by various methods and then tapped. Cast iron is easy to tap with the right size hole to begin with. Remember KIS.

 

See post #85........

 

If you and I could climb inside, we'd find the hole is a very clean 37/64" x ~ 1.25" deep. The brand new HSS bit I bought to drill for the tap fits snugly, doesn't wobble, and actually only goes in and out with a gentle twist of the wrist. The hole is indeed VERY round. The tap failed... why? I don't know. The drill bit did not fail... why? I don't know. Maybe I just bought a crappy tap. It's pictured earlier in the thread. It was brand new in the package when I bought it for this project last week. I am left-handed. maybe that was the problem (though I did actually turn it clockwise ).

That fails criteria #1 in my OP. So does duct tape, hot glue, and bailing wire.

It's at least 1/8" thick on all sides on the inside. I took the NPT threads completely off and then some. I also added a bevel behind the hex nut all the way around, as well as a couple of "squared areas" so that it would not want to just rotate in a nice, tight Marine-Tex hole. I believe the material failed, period. The "glue" look on the outside was simply me wiping the squeezed excess off, creating a thin bit of residue. I don't know if it didn't like the water/antifreeze "fumes" it had to cure in (it was COMPLETELY dry during the curing period, but it the radiator did have some fluid in it) or I only mixed it 4:59 to the instructions' 5:00, or I got my ratios wrong-- since I didn't use the whole kit, I don't know for sure, but I've mixed lots of 2-part "stuff" in my time, and have rarely had issue with ratios (I think I learned the ratio problem when I was 12, working on my first dent... as it happens, you go 1:1 with the body filler and peroxide hardener... and not on a 105° day either). I mixed it with a razor blade on a metal scraper-- nice handle, clean surface, etc. The leftover material on the blade "cured" to a hard, black material, but I was able to break it off the razor blade with ease. So, the bond between it and non-it wasn't so great. That is probably where it failed inside... between it and non-it. It's probably superbly hard when it's attached to itself. Unfortunately, that serves on useful purpose unless the original item is made from it as well . Again, I don't know why it failed, but it clearly did. If Marine-Tex was interested in doing an RCA on the failure, they're welcome to the results. But, while I haven't asked, I think they'll be comfortable just pocketing the $26.xx and going on about their business. I will be comfortable not ever buying their product again... regardless of why it failed, it didn't leave a very powerful positive impression on me.

Not hot by me, but certainly possible by the PO. However, before I started the goo experiment, I "squared off" the face of it with a so-so quality flat file. Worked just fine and got me a nice and shiny face for the brass/M-T to sit against. Maybe it only got hardened just behind the face (???). Again, not by me, but maybe the PO torched it for some reason.

 

You left off the second 'S,' which definitely applies if I'm involved.

 

I believe you. Still wonder why it failed. I have used M-T for years, and was turned on to it by friends in the hi-po marine business. It sticks to non-it real well. It is not very sensitive to mixing ratio (1:4.999999999 or 1:5.00000001 [joking]) other than it cures real fast if too rich with hardener and real real slow if too lean. It adheres like a sumbitch to cast iron, steel, or aluminum alloy and can (and is) used to replace broken off pieces of castings. While it sounds like you did it properly and we don't know exactly what happened, your experience is unusual (in fact, unheard of for a low-pressure repair like this). If you are turned off to M-T so be it, and I know this does not make you feel better about it, but whatever it was sounds like a fluke. It would be nice to eventually find out what it was.

I think you once answered this - but there was no coolant present on the pieces while the M-T was curing, yes? I seem to recall you stating that you cleaned the parts with solvent several times.

Putting two and two together, also wonder why that cast iron could not be tapped. Have you hit two separate bugs (Murphy's Law), or is one related to two?

The good news is that Rich's offer is probably still open; that is a one in a million opportunity.

Others have observed that this is a lot of thread on a seemingly simple matter but it is interesting to see where it goes.

 

The "Murphy" in this scenario is likely me, and not both the cast iron and the goo. And yes, I cleaned both parts thoroughly with a brand new shop rag and acetone (the acetone was very helpful in identifying a minute cut on my finger. Thank you, acetone.). The system had coolant in it, but well below the work line (none in the water pump, since I had the radiator hose off as well (below the heater hose). There was only Eu de Ethylene Glycol in the air.

Yet they keep comin' back for more

As I mentioned in a post somewhere above, I've got a brand spankin' new aluminum pump on the way. I've also located an aluminum fitting with the proper 3/8" IFF. I am going to ship both parts to a friend near Sac and have him TIG them together nicely. He is quite the 'tigger,' and as a fellow car guy, understands the application, so this should do the trick... well, once I find time to swap out the pumps (the hardest part... finding the time).

 

Ive been glued to this thread wondering if somebody was thinking of this!I have done it and it works well,my spin was I did not have a tig at the time and i drilled the pump nipple and roset welded it as well as around the top with a mig.Never leaked.grinding the threads downs was pretty easy too.

 

Too bad you can't recover all the time you've spent trying to find a solution to this, not to mention the time you've spent responding to all of our suggestions and fixes here on the board. Sounds like you got the cure well under control with the new pump. Good luck with it!

My final thought on this matter is that the pump you've been battling is more than likely not cast iron, but rather cursed iron.......

 

Oh, it's not going away that easily. I am now in the "research from hell" stage of trying to find the correct fitting in aluminum. The one listed on Summit's site is NOT correctly described there. I now have _2_ of them on my desk. They decided to reship in case the first was a mis-packaged one. Well, the second was identical. So, now I'm back to calling every imaginable source for a fitting-- Russell, Earl's, Aeroquip, JDA, and more. So far, nothing. All I need (famous last words) is a fitting that's 3/8" IFF on one end and "I don't care" on the other end. One problem I'm having is people speaking the same language when it comes to fitting sizes. As you probably know, fitting/thread sizing has long been a very confusing thing, probably owing to archaic and time-lost rationales for the numbering schema used. In my case, if I go to NAPA or any other competent auto parts store and ask for a 3/8" hard brake line, it will come with fittings already attached via flare. 1) those fittings are commonly known as 3/8" MIF (or Male Inverted Flare), and they have a 37° flare on the front, which is where the seal occurs. However, several suppliers use the term 3/8" to describe that _actual_ thread size on the nut, which is obviously much smaller than the 5/8" threads on the NAPA part. I need the bigger one.

I am currently whispering when speaking nearby, and have not given it access to the HAMB. However, as soon as I have the aluminum pump test fitted, then TIG'd, then back on the truck, I will be doing unspeakable things to the cursed iron pump. Hint, this guy is coming over...

 

Try McMaster-Carr. They have everything.

 

for one thing take off the pump so you can work on it without bending over the engine, it's really hard to do something like this with a part installed on the engine

 

The new aluminum pump is sitting on my desk in a box. However, the old pump is quite accessible... have you guys seen where this outlet is on a 250 Chevy? It simply could NOT have been put in a better location for what I'm trying to do... though that obviously hasn't helped in this case .

 

Try hose&fittings I know there is one down there near you, you can see it from 880 on the east side,sorry I cant remember exactly what road its on.Those guys always find or figure out stuff for me.Or you can try Vic Hubbard on A st. In hayward at least that way you can look at the fittings before you buy em.

 

Ok. AN fittings are listed in the OD of the tube that fits into them if it's a hard line fitting. So a -6 AN fitting has a tube with six 16ths (3/8 diameter) and as it happens a 9/16 thread. All AN fittings are fine thread. Pipe threads come in the size of the hole in the pipe So a 3/8ths pipe thread would have a 3/8ths hole in it. And would have a 3/8ths NPT thread. A Russell fitting that had these sizes would be a -6 to 3/8 NPT adapter.

 

AN fittings have a 45° bevel seal.

This appears like it will work... I just lop off the AN side and TIG it up.



Or... if I'm feeling bold/stupid, maybe I should just throw that tap at this new pump and thread in the brass piece. Of course, you know what my next post would be... cracked housing on new pump.

 

I'm going to let my fingers do the walking tomorrow. If either place is open, I have a window of free time to get out. Or, if they're open on Monday, I have (hallelujah!) a day off thanks to some guy named Abe... and some other people too.

 

AN fittings are 37 degrees not 45. That is not an AN fitting. It is SAE.

 

XXL, How about we go the simple, no tapping route.....
Earls, Aeroquip, etc, all make a pipe coupler in aluminum. You know, 3/8 npt in both ends ? Get one from Hubbards, cut one end off and have your tig welder go to town.
They have a hex in the center,, cut it off just past the hex.
One thing that nobody else has mentioned !! Will the seal in the pump tolerate the heat from welding ??
Dave

 

Six pages dedicated to tapping a hole.
This thread has been talked to death, the dude needs a machine shop.

 

Why on earth would you want a pipe coupling?If the idea is to get a -6 hard line to the pump you need a 3/8 NPT to -6 adapter or maybe a -6 to -6 coupling. Maybe a -6 to -8 coupling. Do not cut one end off. Turn it down to fit in the pump. Then weld it. Now your hose or line connects directly to the pump. Art is right. This easy job has become way to over thought.

 

Well Rich, I suggested pipe threads for one reason only.
If you look at the pics, and the rest of the fittings he has already plumbed you would see why.
He is using automotive hardline, 3/8" inverted flare. All of his existing fittings start out pipe and go to an automotive adaptor . Trying to keep it simple and matching what he already has.
Also, the 3/8 coupler is just about the same od as the barb on the pump.
Trim the fitting, weld to pump.
Dave

 

I'm not going back to the beginning and read this whole thing again,
Was this an Irwin tap? (Yes it was)

If so there's a thread over on PracticalMachinist going on about the same thing. Some hobbbyist is trying to thread a 3/8 pipe hole in a Ford engine block and actually broke the Irwin. In Cast Iron.

Beware of hardware store taps.

 

OF COURSE just tap the aluminum. KISS. If you crack it (why would that happen?) no harm no foul since you were going to TIG it anyway.