i second this !! have been using it for years, as did my ol'man. for chassis, and complete cars. if you cant find mid temp enamael reducer (manufacturer doesnt matter) you can use any slow dry hi quality laquer thinner to thin it. wet look hardener i add too. also if you cant get the wet look hardener i have been using whatever clear coat hardener i happen to have on my shelf and have not had a single problem. i realise experts say you shouldnt mix and match but i have never had an issue, and use it quite often. ps. dupont also makes a cheaper version in the nason brand. its a little thinner but still works great. good luck
WOW! Tons of great input here!! Definitely some new names as well! My thoughts and questions this morning... * Centari 5000 Acrylic Urethane (a low VOC product) is sounding pretty good * Centari 99a Acrylic Enamel seems to be priced well, but is it a discontinued product? Would like to use something that I can still get in case I need to spray a new part or respray something that gets changed. * Sherwin Williams coach black... I'll look into that as well * HOK UB04. Anyone have anymore to add about this product? * I'll check out SPI again today to see what they have. http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/Product lines.htm. Looks like they only offer primers, sealers, clears, bed liner, and prep products though. I don't see colors. * Nason I've heard pretty decent feedback on. Would like to hear more on anyone's experience with that product. * I think I'm going to avoid the Omni just based on the ratio of good reviews to bad reviews * Someone mentioned Super Jet Black at the PaintForCars website. (http://www.paintforcars.com/aep_jetblack.html) Feedback? $40 for a GALLON?? Looks like I can get a whole KIT for $70 or so! REALLY!?? Whis is this stuff so cheap??? Just a generic brand? * Should I be looking at an acrylic urethane or an acrylic enamel?
Good to know! Thank you! So why would someone want an acrylic enamel, such as DCC9000 or Centari 99 if it's not as durable? Would an acrylic enamel just be better used on body panels and acrylic urethane saved for suspension parts? Sorry for the all the questions. All new to me! Gotta' start somewhere though!
people use what they are used to and the price is less for prepackaged 99a then for stuff that has to be mixed. There is a white premix that is priced the same way. I think its code is 512 which is a chevy white. Even these paints are more durable if you can cook them.
my experience is urethane is a lot harder then enamel, it flows out better even with a cheap gun (it might look like orange peel but it flows out as it's drying). ppg stuff is expensive, a pint of color concept lv clv with dcx61 hardener cost me $100 at the paint store in laguna niguel. enamel is cheaper in price (i bought the qts at pomona for $20 each) and you can still get it in small quantities or out of state. everything here in the 80's and 90's was emanel and it held up well but urethane came and it was better (plus california outlawed enamel), now the urethane is low voc......even the primers have changed because of california.
Since acrylic urethane is harder, what are the sanding characteristics? Can it still be hand sanded or is it really difficult? For urethane, what time period is best for polishing?
I just sprayed a 55 chevy decklid with Nason single stage "Ful-Thane" Urethane. Its actually cheaper than their enamel. I think I got a gallon and the activator/reduer for 130 bucks. I let it sit a couple days in the sun and buffed it. It sprays nice,flows out quite a bit so be careful, and it polished up easy. A step up from that would be DuPont Chroma One single stage 99 black, and the ultimate in Du Pont would be Chroma Premier G9900N Super Jet Black.
scott, i shot this in november. ppg dcc acrylic if i remember correctly. single stage black. just to give an idea what it would like. this is right out of the gun with no cut and polish.
Just for comparison sake... I was looking at some cans of marine grade paint we have here at the shop. It's a single stage Polyurethane Enamel. What's the advantage (if any) of using a Polyurethane Enamel over anything else mentioned here?
Scooter- call this place. The guy always seems to have stuff that's "hard to find" GE Auto Paints & Supplies 2403 East Anaheim Street Long Beach, CA 90804-3534 (562) 433-0915
Go to a commercial vehicle repairer in your area and see if he will pour you off a quart of Imron, it really sounds like Imron is what you need for your application. kgdb
Hey Scoot, See time no long, Your quest for black enamel, epoxy or urethane is gonna get down to dead presidents, 'funny how most things do! Acrylic enamel, is old technology ,circa 1958. The Dupont Centari came out in the late sixties and was all the shit to use throughout the 60s & 70s. It flowed like glass, and ''if '' you knew how to use a spraygun, required no colorsanding unless you were doing multi-colours and back taping. Ditzler/PPG also came out with their DelStar & Delthane lines 'bout then. 'bout 1975, Dupont launched their Imron out here on the west coast (the stuff made me feel like I had a gin hangover for days after I shot it, even with a good mask!) , but wore like iron! You may still find a source for these products, but it's gonna take some hunting. The paint stores are being forced to push the urethanes & the "tree hugger Kool-Aid" (waterborne) fuckin' bullshit! The Sherwin Williams black, as carried by NAPA as well as their Martin Senor line is good acrylic enamel based product. Having said that, I gotta confess, I don't like BB/CC finishes on hot rods or kustoms. These finishes look about as legit as a hooker in a girl scout uniform! Urethane clears are what they are, a plastic finish, not a solvent/paint one! Think leather/vinyl differences, here. Yeah, the urethanes do have marginal durability factors over the old acrylic enamels and, yeah the lacqures, but do you wanna squirt "plastic'' over your project? ya may as well powder coat and go with a SBC for that "real" street rodder look, don't forget the fagot pastel colour combo and the tweed interior touches! The OMNI line is worth about what you pay for it, but little else. The NASON line isn't the old synthetic enamel it use to be, but some like its' ease of use and low price. So's you pay yoe money, and take you chances......... " The very core of fanaticism is its indifference to things of the mind "
Polyurethane would be the most durable of the differant types of paint and fairly pricey as well. Black polyurethane would probebly provide the look and durability you need. I've sprayed gallons upon gallons of Dulux Alkyd Enamel 99 and then Centari 99A. Centari 99A is a great product and I still use a lot of it but for complete new black finishes I now use Glasurit 22 line urethane acrylic BMW Avus Black single stage. I'm prepping a 40 Ford for it now. Wow is it expensive! Probebly not as durable as poly though. luck
my old truck shot in centari.. everything "pimpin paint" said i think is rite on the money.. i use both here at my shop, but i will never be able to lay out clear like i can centari. so again if your just doin the chassis anyway i dont think you can get more bang for your buck, and keep it real simple at the same time..
hey scooter, first off yes at my shop we have the same availability issue. fortunately we bought a few gallons before it went on hiatus. you can still buy it in a few areas but if we are desperate we have to go out of state for some materials. secondly if you want a truely awesome black use DCC9300 it is the deepest darkest black on the market in factory pack where as the 9000 is kind of muddy. but short answer is yes you can find it if you look hard enough.i have also heard rumors that ppg is now producing a compliant single stage black.
As always, GREAT input, Rex! Thanks! I do agree about the platic look you mention as well. Since I haven't paid much attention to paint until now (I mean REALLY paid attention) I haven't noticed the differences. I would love to see the urethane next to the enamel just to see. I'm definitely untrained in spotting that kind of thing, but the theory makes complete sense. I assume you're talking Centari 99A and not the 5000, low VOC stuff, right? I have a buddy coming down from Vegas soon and can bring me whatever is available in that area. So if I need to order from out of state to get the product that's "right" for this, I will.
Still really liking my original plan A; using PPG Concept. Going to see if I can get it from Vegas. Since we're on the topic, I've heard that the DCC 9000 was colorless, where the 9300 had a little blue and the 9700 having a hint of brown. What's the truth?? Can't seem to get a straight answer on this. Are there problems with getting out of state suppliers to ship to California addresses?
i have some delstar black and i just bought some concept. i'm going back down to the paint store tomorrow morning and will ask about the black. the new concept version and old (2003ish) are compatible they said. i'm a total hack at paint, i've only painted 2 whole cars but a lot of parts over the years (using a cheap harbor freight gun) and urethane you don't really need to color sand (with proper prep and good gun). here is the stuff i have and just bought. 1st pic is new just bought clv 2nd is delstar (enamel) and older dcc (2003ish urethane) 3rd is delstar hardner and reducer bought in 2003ish 4th is my fire hazzard in the garage......just have to keep them sturred, i have a harbor freight air powered paint shaker.
acrylic enamel (centari) has an inherent ability to stick to bare metal and will eventually cure with out a hardener (months) acrylic urethane (concept) will gloss best, is very chemical resistant, but MUST use an activator. Polyurethane (Imron) is VERY tough, chemical resistant, must use an activator, but isnt quite as pretty as concept
i have found that the 9300 is the truest form of black where the 9000 has a grey tint one time and a brown another. it seems to be hit or miss. my shoebox was painted with 9300 and when i get done fixing all the paint shops screw ups i will be shooting it myself(its what i do) with the 9300 and supercharger instead of regular reducer/hardener. as far as shipping most jobbers will not ship to california. we have customers from nevada and arizona so if we really need it they pull through for us but if not its roadtrip time. the only problem is the out of state jobbers know the drill so they up the price. the other thing i would say is check paint supplys in the high desert area or in the inland empire they might be able to get it for you and possibly ship also.
Now I understand............ Every black is based on another color: blue, grey, brown, etc. Nason does kick ass, I have an entire 58 Chevy in it. DP's were still available here just 3 months ago............from our local D'Angelos. Acrylic is some old school tech right there, like I said, UV rays is its best friend. It's hard stuff, maybe too hard for suspension *since suspension flexes, maybe brittle is a better word?* When you figure it out, let me know. =O)
Okay! Good info! I'll have Brandy check into some Concept for me and I'll pull some cards in Vegas as well. (no pun intended) Thanks!
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