I tried to find the data for the exact date in 1915 with no success. I may have gotten the Avg temp instead of the Average High temp-would account for me only getting a 57F.
Here is another photo showing the Delage #15 at SF along with Ruckstell`s Mercer and Cooper in the #8 Stutz.
Lee, the article is from The New York Times and is titled DE PALMA WINS TWICE. Do a google search as i'm having some trouble finding the correct link. I have a feeling that Clark is the owner of the car. There are no records of this race that i have been able to find.
Link to SF Public Library photos from the Pan Pacific course. http://sflib1.sfpl.org:82/search/a?searchtype=X&searcharg="Vanderbilt"+Cup&SORT=D&x=26&y=4 More good photos although very small.... http://sflib1.sfpl.org:82/search~S0...=Search&searchlimits=&searchorigarg=X"Racing"
It is San Diego, the really big reason why it is not the SF road race: SF had no HILLS on the course. (Strange when you think of SF) And yes San Diego, like LA and almost all the major California cities had tram cars. In the '50s GM came to town (the same in LA, and tried the same in SF) and bought up all the rail car companies and tore out the tracks and destroyed the cars. They did not want any competition for thier new busses. Lame. My family moved to San Diego in 1860, in the 40's my grand parents bought a house on what once was the San Diego Grand Prize cuircut. Regretably one of my realitives had a fascintation with fire, so lots of stuff kinda disappeared. I spent 18 years there, and yes it does freeze, but warms up to the 50's/ 60's during the day...remember it is the dessert.
Here is another photo of the #8 at Point Loma Race in San Diego although the photo is dated 1914 from the SD historical society. In the past have found their many of their dates on photos wrong. If this was 1915 it looks like a much warmer day as no one has on overcoats. Perhaps some can date this photo by one of the other cars. FB is probaby correct but this has given us the chance to see some great photos. Best, T-H
Staying with the subject of Earl Cooper here is a pic from the 1915 Grand Prize @ SF.......and, i also have a question. Did Cooper have a brother who also raced?
Another photo of the Pan Pacific course. http://webbie1.sfpl.org/multimedia/sfphotos/aad-6944.jpg http://webbie1.sfpl.org/multimedia/sfphotos/aad-6506.jpg
T-Head,I think the photo is from 1915-not 1914. Rick was in the white #7 Peugeot at S.D. in 1915. Did they even race in San Diego in 1914?
Thanks Jim. I learn something everyday from you guys. In the article i mentioned earlier it said his 'Green Dragon' was repainted red thus becoming 'The Red Devil'. I thought both cars existed together. All too confusing for me so i won't go any further, besides i'd rather waste my energy learning about the unknown drivers such as Cyrus Patschke. If you're interested i did find a link to the Lakeside Track where Oldfield in the Dragon was match racing Bruno Seibel in the Red Devil in 1907. www.lakesidehistory.org/Racetrack/racetrack.htm
"Did Cooper have a brother who also raced?" Not sure if he was related to Earl. http://www.champcarstats.com/drivers/CooperJoe.htm Joe is listed as born in PA and Earl two years earlier in NEB.
I wonder if any of those houses are still standing today? It would be very neat to see one of those 'Now' photos of this area to this 'Then' photo....
Barney in the Peugeot. My only photo of him in it. Does anyone have any better photos of him in this car to share? I also would like to learn about the Knox and Darraq he had.
I found another photo of a Mercer which was with a batch of others from the Southern Calif. area. The coarse looks familiar and we have a T-Head Mercer in the front, what may be a Buick in the middle and what looks like a Benz bringing up the rear. I will leave it to you sleuths to figure out, I'm thinking it may be some place like Santa Monica. See Kurtis's reply #1348
Aerial Photo of the Culver City, California board track shortly after opening with a race meet in process.
T-Head, i believe the photo is from the 4th of May 1912 Santa Monica Road Races. Was the photo taken during practice or were the races run concurrently? The #25 Merc driven by David Bruce-Brown raced in the 36 lap Dick Ferris Trophy which was an unlimited class free for all and the #5 Mercer of Ralph De Palma was entered in the medium stock chassis class with an engine limit of 301ci. If the car in the middle is a Buick as you said it could be Earl Devore which also raced against De Palma or it could be Louis Nikrent who raced in the Chanslor & Lyon Race, limited to light stock chassis carswith an engine limit of 230ci.
Quote; T-Head, i believe the photo is from the 4th of May 1912 Santa Monica Road Races.Was the photo taken during practice or were the races run concurrently? Kurtis..... I have no idea if it is practice or the race, sorry...I just stumbled into it. Signing off for today.....Interesting that you are starting up your day and I am winding down. Best T-H
Mac to try and answer your question, Cliff Durant had so graciously received the West Coast Chevrolet distributorship due of course to his father. With a pretty healthy wallet and a desire to go racing he bought a couple of the Wisconsin Stutz OHC cars running in the 300 inch era. He named these cars Chevrolet to feather his nest and account a bit towards his advertising allowance/budget I suppose. He ran his Chevrolet/Stuttz at Indy in 1919 and if you look at post #1110 earlier in this thread you will see the 300 inch cars with the Chevrolet lettering getting ready for Tacoma 1919. From 1920 thru the better part of the 20s there was probably not anyone who threw more money at Harry Miller than Cliff and this car was his first car from Miller. Dees in his book has a few pictures of the car but the details he has on the engine are not correct. Bill Castle who has done considerable research feels the first engine was a TNT which were not very successful including this car out of the box. Milton drove the car and they gave up on the original engine and they replaced it with a Duesenberg engine for awhile and then they put in the 183 that you see in the pics. It was called the Baby Chevrolet to differentiate it from the 300 cars I suppose. As I have said in the past Bill's workmanship has been outstanding on the car. He showed me all of his molds he made for the various castings and the molds are works of art in and of themselves. He was a crew chief for several Indy car teams back in the 40s after the war but went to work for GM and is now retired. Here are few pics of the car-Jim A pic of the car while work in progress At the Miller Meet, last year While at Denny Jamison's shop Automotive HammerArt in Gasoline Alley-prior to the body being built The car at the Miller Meet, Bill is on the right int he blue shirt.
Jim, Thanks for the answer- Durant's Baby Chevrolet is a favorite, and Bill Castle's work is to be applauded! Don't know what we're going to do when the men with the memories, craftsmanship, and heart are gone. Has anyone considered sitting down with him and getting some of his history recorded? PS- The Miller Meet is a definite on the bucket list!!!
I believe this is 1915, San Diego but I believe the #9 car is a Peugeot albeit in GP form. With the Puente Gas uniforms I am wondering whether this car (driven by Fred McCarthy) is the team car with the car in front of it (Rickenbacker). Will have to research that topic. I believe the Rickenbacker Peugeot went to Miller and then was the second Burman Peugeot. Wonder whatever happened to this Peugeot or if maybe this car could have ended up at Miller's shop. Anyone have any other pics of a Peugeot stateside at this time with the dual tires rather than the aero tail?-Jim
Mac I have sat down and talked to Bill a couple of times and will again in a couple of weeks. I recently sent him some of my research material so he could digest what little I had and when we talk again hopefully he can fill in a few pieces of the puzzle. I figure with all of his research maybe some of my stuff could jar a thought or two that would lead somewhere. I have spoken to Bill also as to the fate of the Sub and Cadwell Miller and the Sig Haugdahl Rocket Car which he watched burn in Illinois back in the late thirties. He was working down the street at a gas station and was on his day off and at the movies with his girlfriend Esther (now his wife) and when they came out of the theater they saw Sloan's Shop in flames. He told me the three cars were burned beyond recognition-absolutely nothing left as the fire was too intense. I guess there is one guy claiming he has the steering wheel off the Sub but Bill said if he has it had to be before the fire as nothing would have survived. Sloan had the cars on a false floor made of wood (soaked with oil) so that the floor was the same height as the railroad siding-the cars would be pushed out the back door onto the rail cars-as would Sloan's polo cars as well. Bill told me the rocket car was white the same color as the Haugdahl three miles a minute record car and the Sub and Cadwell car were blue and red although he does not know which was which (the unique Sub body was of course long gone). Bill told me that Chuck Davis later talked to Sloan's son about this and tried to see if any of the remains were there but Bill told me the remains were hauled off to the dump not long after the fire. I have taken some notes on the Baby Chevrolet and I will try and fill in some of the blanks-Jim
Nice Black Hawk pic, Keith. I am writing Lockhart's biography in book length for my MA degree in creative writing...see the page: http://stutzblackhawk.tripod.com
John B good luck with your work on Lockhart. I have been fascinated with that car for a long time. One day while at Road America (while wearing my Blackhawk sweatshirt mind you) I stumbled on this recreation owned by Turner Woodard out of Indy. Turner I believe owns the Stutz name as well as the old Stutz building and vintage races under the Stutz name. It is of course a non functional wallhanger that was made to literally hang from the ceiling or wall in a California restaurant. Pretty cool piece though for Blackhawk nuts. I also have a signed blueprint by Myron Stevens I got when they were recreated by the now defunct National Auto Racing Historical Society to which I belonged. Hopefully you will make it available to us junkies. I would certainly be interested in a copy. Also guys great bunch of pics today-almost too many to take in David thanks for the Gray Wolf pic although I do have that popular picture with Schmidt behind the wheel.-Jim
thank for posting all those cool pics! i love early chain drive big engine cars. here's a pic of a 900 inch 6 cyl ALF i was going to turn into a speedter but I sold it instead. Notice the resemblence to the simplex [/IMG]
maybe you guys have already discussed it but old ALF's are a great way to have affordable chain drive fun http://www.tomlaferriere.com/1915_Brass_Era_American_lafrance_speedster_simplex_Thomas.htm
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