Running both a generator AND alternator

Hi 440, your right it still requires the basics but I was referring to having the 2 circuits drawing 6v off each batt connected to each other in any way. I thought connecting them as the mid batt buss would create a network and what I was referring to was using "network theorems" and "mesh analysis". I forgot how to do it but each thing you change in a network circuit changes everything else in that circuit.
Actually that doesn't apply to my drawing, I was wrong. After looking it up The way I drew the schematic is right, my suspicion was wrong. there is no network connection.

Using this schematic doesn't require converting the car to 12 volt, only the charging system. It's the simplest way I can see to charge 2 batts off one generator without needing network controls.
I cant think of a way to connect two 6v gens and two 6v batts then jump between them to run a 12v load without creating a network requiring controls so the batts don't short themselves.
I'm not saying it's impossible. I just can't think of how.

 

Perhaps you can get an old Schwinn bicycle generator to run off your tires!

Seriously, I think having two (generator/alternator) power sources under your hood is a bit extreme or bordering on the weird as solutions go. I'm also on 6 volts and don't want to change mainly because I have a large supply of 6 volt light bulbs and other equipment and also because originality (Tradition?) is important to me.

I'm with the guys suggesting a separate 12V battery with a dedicated and isolated circuit for stereo use. I can't see that you'd want to retain 6 volts while also demanding a bass-booming blaster sound system anyway.

 

Just get a 12v battery for the trunk, mount a trickle charger in there to plug it into the wall once a week, and apply for Hybrid Vehicle plates!

I was kiddin about the plates, but keep it simple and drive the damn thing!

 

You could probably hide a small alternator down low like a power steering pump would go. you would end up building your own bracket though. Paint it black and It wouldn't stand out too much.

The easiest way would be to buy a deep cycle marine/RV battery and put it in the trunk and wire the music system to it. As a couple of others said, it would have to be charged every so often and probably wouldn't do for really long extended trips but for back and forth and one day runs out to events it should work ok.

 

somebody on here posted a cable drive alt mounted under the car.

 

look at page 3 of this posthttp://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=276136&highlight=hidden+alternators&page=3

 

My brain just pee'd itself.

 

The battery in the trunk idea is sounding good to me. Easy Cheesy. Half assed? Depends on who you talk to I guess.

Here's what I came up with

 

That'll work fine. Good luck, and enjoy the ride!

 

unless I'm all fucked up,
that will send twelve volts through the entire car.

you need to isolate the two systems.

the only way this will work is if you insulate the stereo and run both pos. and neg. from battery to stereo only,
do not ground anything 12 volt to the car.

 

I am pretty sure VW used a 12 volt battery with a 6 volt tap when they started making the transition to 12 volt, how about one of those with a 12 volt alt that look like a gen, you could run your headlights and dash etc off the 6 volt tap and starter and radio off 12 volt car would crank up faster etc

 

link to 5/12 volt battery http://www.antiqueautobattery.com/prod011.htm

 

sorry should be 6/12

 

This is getting crazy!

 

Its a floating system, 6 and 12 won't mix together. He'd have to connect the two + together to do that.

 

To prove my point, take a metal flashlight, turn it on, touch the flashlight to car ground. Did it blow up? No... the systems stayed seperate.

 

jsut get a polished one of those SUPER fuckin cool 60s mopar finned alternators.. it will be right at home because ANYONE back in the day woulda upgraded if they could..

then you have everything you want, and keep good looks..

your stereo will be a lot more non trad than an alternator.. and sleds dont open hoods at shows anyways.. lets be serious here

 

ah yes, I see.. I think
and this only works in direct current applications like found in cars and flashlights

 

When I was poor I ran my little Citroen 2CV on battery only when the alternator died and I couldn't afford a new one.

It was summer and I didn't need the lights. I was travelling from Liverpool to Birmingham and back every day - a round trip of about 190 miles. I started the engine, ran the radio, the ignition, the indicators and the wipers - everything except the lights. Charged it every other day. Did that all summer and never got stranded. BUT - first time I needed to use the lights in the evening I was screwed.

 

what I designed is a 2 tiered system. you would have 12 volt potential from the second battery +post. to -ground.
6 volt from the 12 volt -post of the second batt... to the buss connecting the two 6 volt batts.
And 6 volt from the battery buss to ground.
the batt buss is the conductor between the pos of the 1st batt and the neg of the second batt.
your battery buss will have 6 volts as per the first battery. 12 volt potential grounded to 6v potential is a 6 volt circuit.
You have to remember that even though there is a positive and negative post, there is in reality only one charge and one potential in the circuit carried by the electron.
There is only charge and no charge...not positive and negative.
+12 volt circuit grounded to +6 volt = +6volt
+12 volt over +9 volt = +4volt
+12 volt over neutral ground = +12 volt
+110v ac over neutral ground = +110v 60hz ac reversing sine wave
+110v ac over -110v ac (connecting both 110v ac legs to get 220v)
= +220v 60hz ac complimentary sine wave

the only difference between ac and dc is that the single charge goes back and forth in the conductor at a set frequency instead of through in one constant direction.
the charge never reverses, the direction it flows reverses.
electicity works just like water in a pipe.
there isn't +water and - water...there's just water and a hole.

 

wouldnt it just be easier to convert the radio?

 

he didn't say why he didn't want to convert he just said he wants to add something incompatible with what's there and have it work without changing anything
I want to have 12 volt
but my car is 6 volt
and I want to know what I must change
but I don't want to change anything.
now THAT is making MY brain pee itself.

 

Okay, I and we have gotten way off track. I had to go back to the original question, what alternator and what battery to add a seperate system.
1 any alternator that fits
2 any battery, it doesn't matter as long as the car is running. The battery is a capacitor that absorbes electrical noise from the circuit.
You didn't specify but if your question about a battery was geared toward running the radio with the engine off then the battery size would depend upon how many amps the sound system drew and how long you wanted to run it. a car or motorcycle battery is designed to be kept charged up. running it down discharged below a certain voltage ruins it by allowing insoluable lead sulfates to form on the plates reducing it's capacity.
If your thinking of running the radio with the engine off get a "deep cycle" battery like what's used in a boat, trailer, or rv.
If your adding an alternator and keeping the generator you could use a common ground if your 6 volt is neg. ground
but if it is pos. ground you will have to completely isolate the stereo wiring from the car chassis. the trouble with that is going to be that modern stereos use the metal chassis of the radio and other components including the antenna as 12v ground.

The most significant failure of engineering isn't in being able to solve a problem. It's in trying to do something without ever asking the question should you???
initially. If you don't know how everything works...it seems simpler just adding another system and keeping it separate...but getting it to work is incredibly more complex then changing what you have over to 12 negative ground.
Now if you should try it anyway if you do figure out how... it would be met with several questions:
1 do I want to go through all that? is anyone going to appreciate it or will it become a detriment?
2 why do I want to keep it as it is? is anyone else going to care and if they do what's their opinion worth?
3 If someone did care if kept it that original what would they think about me changing things by adding a stereo?
4 how much will I have to change the car to keep from changing something else about the car?

I would switch it all to 12 volt if I wanted to keep it as original as possible or just buy an ipod
if i remember right you can make the generator 12v just by changing the voltage reg. or adjusting the voltage regulator's points with no changes to your wiring harness.
To change polarity from pos. to neg. ground you'd have to disconnect the generator and re-polarize it. any old motors manual can tell you how. You might or might not have to do something with your starter and I think your ammeter would operate in reverse unless you reversed it's connection.

 

Must be a long cold winter in Omaha

 

Back in the day we called that several words,jerry-rigging was one,if you got that sweet engine in the car give it a break and do it right,12 volt alternator that looks like generator,dim lights,what the hell is that all about?

 

Don't understand why you don't want to completely convert to 12v. Seems like a lot of trouble for a stereo. If 12v is not traditional, then the stereo is not either. I fought with 6v on my 53 last summer . Did a complete rewire and switched the flattie to 12v ,will NEVER run 6v again.

 

"powergen" and upgrade to 12 volts. They even have colth cover harnesses now so you get the vintage look. There is no advantage to 6 volt systems. Unless you're keeping it numbers-matching all stock etc., You may even save money in the long run by updating and upgrading. Think reliabilty of new wires and alternator, saftey of new components, availibilty of parts and acessories. Long term thinking--it's a no-brainer. Then there's the work involved with setting up a remote off-the-driveshaft system.... Keep it simple and upgrade to 12 volt.

That being said, whoever talked about windmills may have something. Smoeky Yunick put a propeller on an alternator on that infamous NASCAR '66 Chevelle they banned. Check it out, talk about thinking outside the box!

 

So let me see if I've got this straight: He doesn't want to convert the car to 12 volts for whatever reason, he wants the engine bay to look traditional with a generator mounted up high, but then he ALSO wants to run a modern alternator off a second belt up front so he can run a modern radio?

This could be one of the dumbest ideas I've seen in a good long while.

Do it the right way.

-Brad

 

I vote deep cycle battery if you don't want to change anything anywhere. A radio will last a long time just running off of one. Unless you have one of those huge ear blowinging systems. Boom, Boom, Bong...

 

Just put some straight pipes on it. That way you can annoy everone around you without one of those tribal drum boom boom boxes and it will be music to your ears.