So I'm beginning my 41 Ford ragtop project soon and I've begun planning it out, but this will be my first real project and I'm very inexperienced. In that light I'm making this thread, rather than post 400 seperate threads asking dumb questions I figure I'll make one that traces the project and you can help me along the way. I hope that I'll be able to make good use of what I learn here. So here is the plan (I'll number each question as I go along to make replying easier): As a heads up before hand, I'm a college student so my money is kinda tight, so I'd like to use what I have as much as possible and only spend money on what I need to get her going. I've got 3 Flatheads laying around, 2 of the '38-'48 flatties with integrated bellhousing and out of the later 8ba style flatties. I'd like to get this mill running and use it, with maybe a 2x2 or 3x2 setup (someday). My priority is just to get it going, #1a: So is there anyone in RI or southern New England who rebuilds Flatheads and would be willing to show me how to work with them? #1b: or at the least let me look over their shoulder? Also I don't have a transmission for any of the flatheads so I need to get one, since my first choince is the 8ba without bellhousing, #2a: What are my options for transmissions? #2b:What kind of tranny adapter will I need, if any? #3: Will I be able to use the original column shift with my new tranny? #4a: With a new transmission I'll need a custom driveline made, right? #4b: Where could I get that done? #4c: By doing so will I be able to use the stock rear differential and axle? I want to lower the car about 4 inches in the rear and 3 or so up front, I know in the early days they would commonly channel the car but that is beyond my abilities at the present. #5a: What is the cheapest way of lowering the car as desired? (remember too I'm still new at this so not rocket science either.) #5b: Will it seriously reduce the ride quality or comfort, or hurt the structure of the car? This is all I've gotten at the moment, besides minor details like frenched headlights which can wait. Here are some pics of the car, she's a little boxed in at the moment so sadly these are the best pics I've got. (There was no way to get at the front of the car so I had to scan a 17 year old picture of myself sitting in the drviers seat. that's why it so blurry) Imput is welcome from everyone, and if any RI or nearby HAMBers wanna stop by you're welcome to do so (until I'm 21 at the end of Jan. it's bring your own beer. )
Flatliner, Good luck in the build on your '41 Convert. It sounds like you are planning to build a Taildragger . I would check out Rodders Journals, The last couple of issues have had photo essays on eraly '40s Custom. Just check them out if you could borrow or get some back issues. As to lowering the rear I would suggest you midify the rear crossmember. This only works if you are keeping the buggy springs. I will be doing a similar mod on the frame for my '41 Fordor. It will be a traditional early custom with a 292 Flrd Y-Block with three dueces/T-Bird valve covers adapted to a '39 Merc trans. I have four '41s so you can PM me any questions you may have. 41 Dave
I would also check out Rikster's site. There are a few that fit your criteria there. What an awesome car to start with! I'm jealous!
Oh- and as far as the transmissions go, all of the 3 spd side loaders will bolt right up to any of the flathead you have. You will need a bolt-on bellhousing for the 8BA, but I'd reccommend going with one of the 59ABs you have for coolness. If the car has column shift (which I assume it does) you'll have everything you need right there minus new bushings, etc... to get the job done. Depending on what transmission mount you use you shouldn't even have to change that. The '42-'51 pickup open drives have a wider mount base than your standard side loader from '39-48. (It would also be a floor shift then if you used the open drive light duty 3 spd.) I hope this helps a bit...
Maybe I'd have gotten more interest if I had put he words Boobs and Beer in the title lol btw: I'll try to get a few shots of my engines for you guys soon 41 Dave: I love the taildragger look and that's what I'm hoping to achieve Pinstriper40: thanks for the info, what makes the 589ABs cooler to you that the 8BAs? I had a look at Rikster's site and I really like the stance on Dick Carter's 41 Ford that's really the look I'm going for minus the trim, frenched headlights, and with the stock grill
Very cool man,I'm guessing its been in the family(17 year pic).I loves me some 41's!!Keep us posted,and good luck with the build.
the first thing you need to do i think is connect with some fellow hambers . If you only had a map that might help so you could contact some fellas.......... http://www.frappr.com/hamb . Try this . .Alot of people might miss the huge amounts of info in your post because they are looking for something specific in the titles. beers and boobs are good everywhere. They are everywhere , most of the time you just don't know it though cuz you can't see em. try this. G'luck . swaZZie
1941 Ford 'vert project,early taildragger,flathead. My first time. That's a better title for ya. '41 vert ! that is worth all the effort and $ you will need to put into it.
Wow 8Flatliner6, that's an excellent car for a first project, or any project, for that matter. Very cool that it's a convertible, and really solid-looking too! I agree with Pinstriper40, in that you will probably be happier to utilize the original-style drive-train. Doing that will help to make things easier and less expensive, and your project will progress faster than if you have to start modifying things. An original trans will be fine with the flathead. Of course, don't overlook the suspension/brakes/steering and such. Invest what's needed to ensure that you will have a great riding/steering/stopping car to make for a pleasurable driving experience, and to keep you and others safe. Speaking of being safe...When working on a car as extensively as you are going to be, chances of hurting yourself are likely. Do all that you can to minimize this. Think about what could possibly happen as you work. You probably won't be able to avoid the occasional cut or scrape, but protect yourself when working under the car, dealing with gasoline, etc. Use good jack-stands when working under the car. Go so far as to place large wooden blocks or even stumps for safe-guards. When working with gasoline, never use an incondecent light-bulb for a trouble light...use a flourecent type. One drop of gas on that light-bulb will bust it, and fire can ensue. Besides, you can drop that flourecent light a hundred times, (which you will) and it won't break. Use eye protection...save your eyes...especially when using rotary tools. Don't overlook the idea of having help when doing something major, such as removing or installing an engine. Consider keeping your cell-phone within reach...just in case. Have fun, be careful...have fun, be careful. The first thing I would do, is to remove the front end. Hood, grille, fenders, radiator support, etc. This will give you easy access to the front suspension and engine. Consider doing some basic detailing to your firewall, front portion of the frame and front suspension while you have access. The first picture is 17 yrs. old? Can we assume that it's been in the family for a long time? Tell us more. We'd be interested in hearing your history with the car! And if you ever get a chance, view the movie called "April Love" with Pat Boone. He drives a '40s Merc converible, not exactly the same as yours, but close enough. Especially check out the scenes where he's rippin' around the dirt horse-racing track! It'll be inspirational for you. I wish you great luck with your Ford. Of course, keep us posted. - Rick
Thanks for the advice, I don't think I can change the title of the post, but maybe a moderator who's watching can... Something like "It's time to get bloodied, First Project, 41 Ford Ragtop, taildragger, with flatty... help wanted?"
So it's time for an update, I took some more pictures today: It's a very solid car, no serious rust (visible atleast), I've got plenty of spare fenders and a spare hood. I've actually got a 41 vert parts car that I can rob stuff off of mostly stainless at this point. Here's a few pics: Here's the rear axle and driveline, they look to be in decent shape: Same up front, not sure yet: It's pretty bare but theres a decent frame there and maybe a few good stainless pieces. On to the Flatheads, first off I found a couple of transmission tucked away in the shed with the 59ABs: these wouldn't happen to be what I'm looking for would they? if so will they work with both the 59ABs and 8BA engines? Speaking of the Flatheads, I'm still curious why the 59ABs seem to be more popular? Is there a performace difference? So here are a few pics, I couldn't get a clear pic of both 59ABs since one is kinda buried (it's just the block with the cam and crank in it) you can kinda see I clipped the corner of it and the flywheel in the tranny pics. Here is the second 59AB: Aside from the rust it looks pretty good, and relatively, I didn't even notice that this one still had the tranny on it till I loaded the picture. Hopefully she's not rusted up inside. Below are a couple of pictures of that 8BA sitting in my basement, I just pulled the plugs to pour some Marvel Mystery Oil in the cylinders: This one is faily complete as well, I'm missing the bellhousing, as you can see. So lemme know your feedback, and more answers to my earlier questions and advice, encouragement is welcome too.
Wow, what a great project to start with. Your inspiration is spot on and if you stick close to that pic you'll have a top notch custom for sure. Lowering the front and rear is pretty straight forward and there is a lot of info if you search around a bit. My suggestion would be to get Jordan Graham to drop your front axle so that it has a 4" drop and perhaps reverse the eyes too. Out back order some shackles from Vern Tardel and reverse the eyes. You'll be able to get a few more inches by removing leaves and such to your liking. Another option would be to flatten that rear crossmember the amount that you want to bring the rear down which would leave your suspension travel alone allowing for a nicer ride. The good thing there is that it's really only time and effort as opposed to money. Tranny wise, what about a popular T5 with an open driveline. This car is going to be pretty low so people are not going to care to much if it's running the torque tube. You biggest challenge is going to be the sheet metal but that can come a little at a time. I would get the mechanics and the suspension dialed in and then start focusing on the sheet metal. It'll give you a chance to do some research on any custom trick you might want to include on this build. The chassis is the back bone of any good build. You get this thing sitting right and you will won half the battle.
WOWEEEE!!! Thats a great project to start with and one you'll have for the rest of your long life. Theyres so much help from guys that know what theyre doing here. Way back when I was your age ,aside from running from raptors and such, the only way to access this kind of knowledge was to work free at a shop as a gofer. I'll trade ya some MnM's for it.
Question #6: Asides for Macs are there any other good places to find early ford parts? websites or catalog, etc
Wow...a real 41 ragtop as a first project! Most of us had to start with a sedan at first. Those transmissions are designed to fit the 8BA. Good news is one is a straight 3 speed and one is a real live 3 speed overdrive tranny. The transmission on your old flathead will work behind either style of flathead. A 49-50 Merc adapter ring [or ford pickup] will adapt the early trans to the late flathead. The determining factor on the engine is choosing the one that is NOT cracked. The blocks are famous for cracking and they're usually repaiable but it's a lot easier to begin with an un-cracked block. Disassemble the heads off the engines and look for cracks between the valves and between the valves and the bore. Those 3 speed transmissions will work behind either early or late engines but they're fragile. I recommend buying the Speedway adapter kit to bolt an S-10 chevy pickup 5 speed transmission behind the flathead of your choice. They sell a kit for both styles of flatheads...make sure you have a good engine first before buying any tranny adapters for it. Buy some flathead books before buying any parts....there are several available on the news stands...Ebay is a good place to look for them. You really need to educate yourself before going too much further. Hanging on the HAMB is a great place to pick up facts too....go slow and read before laying out your $$$$$$$$$$$$$..
It seems you may have an engine and transmission so the next steps is to get a book or two as Rocky stated. Get the engine apart and see if it is cracked or not. Then move on to Question #7. Now is good time to start taking all the parts out of the car and seeing what else is there (parts/rust). It does not cost anything to do this and the change will motivate the hell of ya. Hope you have the other vent window for the car somewhere, I hear those are hard to come by. Good luck on the project and I hope yours moves along faster then mine did. I will be watching this thread for progress.
6. Little Dearborn, Bob Drake, and Dennis Carpenter all can be found online. Little Dearborn carries lots of N.O.S parts. 5. I lowered my 1947 Ford by using longer spring shackles. I have the front of my car lower than the rear which I did by redrilling the shackles. I feel it rides fairly good since I adjusted the lever shocks on the car.
Thanks for revive this threat in a sense, I've been meaning to get back to this. Ok, so after both the holiday season and my 21st birthday, I'm finally getting back to the car. So I've gotten a few goodies, since I last posted. I've got a new grill, which you could see in the background of my flathead shots, but I've taken in closer detail, it looks like it's a bit dented and know a good way to fix it? I've got a new horn ring New tail lights which I may not end up using, with my plan to customize it and a guage panel since my old one was cracked I also got a new convertible top but I left it in the box. As soon as the weather improves a bit I plan on moving the car from it's shed into the shop and get under her to see what condition the frame is in. Also if my updates are sporadic it's because I've got a very busy school schedule and working hard to pay for my "hot rod" habit But there is some good news I've met the great girl who loves cars and is in school to become a "mechanic" (or auto technician in current parlance,) but she doesn't like old cars... YET!
While digging through a box of carbs (see my zenith carb post) I came across a Ford model 59 carb for my flathead. while I intend to run a 3x2 setup at some point, I don't have the money for that at the moment so a Stock intake and this guy should suffice to get me running. Looks to be in good shape. Was the Holley 94 an aftermarket replacement for the model 59, because they look nearly the same?
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