See, they had me fooled! I know I have seen a period pic of the Weightman/Stutz, but obviously I had forgotten how it looked. Serves me well for posting with the flu...
Wow thanks for all the Weightman info and pics you guys. Too bad it didn't get identified and restored as the Weightman. Onelung Bob's car is something of a local legend, I don't doubt it would do 70mph. he's a hot rodder of a different stripe and been known to do things like bump the compression up very high for amazing economy just to prove a point. I said the NZ cars participated in the hillclimb but that's obviously Guy Ravenscroft in the car now lost in France pictured. Kurtis I love that first Sizaire pic, I've never seen a p***enger putting their weight into it like that in anything with so many wheels before. Here's some pics from the Denny Duesenberg estate auction catalog 1 Beverly Hills Speedway 1922 L-R Al Wilson, Ernie Olson, Ernie Ansterberg, Roscoe Sarles, Stu Wilkinson, Eddie Miller, Denny Duesenberg, Jimmy Murphy. 2 Mason 1912 Hillclimb 3 ??? Simply ***led French experimental. 4 Eddie Rickenbacker Elgin Aug 1919
Yes, that's Shorty Cantlon in late 1929 with the first of the "big block" Miller marine engines. I'm not sure about the "strong man" (maybe Ed Wintergust?), but in the second pic that's Bill White with Shorty, the owner of the Miller '91' in which the engine was installed. The original marine Miller was 151 CID, first built in 1926. The "big block" was 183 CID, and built during the time H. A. Miller, Inc. was controlled by Schofield, Inc. It is sometimes known as the Miller-Schofield, at the risk of confusion with the Model A conversions that were built at the same time (and later sold as Cragar). "Big block" can also lead to confusion, since Frank Brisko began manufacturing a 220 CID version in around 1933, and that was very popular throughout the thirties since it was a lot cheaper than a "proper" Miller or Offy. Miller left the "original" company some time in early 1930, and began manufacturing the famous '200/220', the forerunner of the Offy in 1931, by which time Schofield was already bankrupt. By 1933, Miller was also bankrupt, and I don't think his "new" company ever produced any engines of this marine type in any size. It's pretty confusing at times, and when you find a Schofield engine listed in race results it can mean a lot of things, but probably not a Miller Marine. On the other hand, the Brisko '220' was always marketed as a Miller, even though Miller never built such an engine as far as I can tell.
Thanks for the pics, a few corrections if you don't mind: the first pic is of early 1921, the cars are all 1920 models - the '21 had hydraulic brakes, and the brake cables were consequently missing. And the riding mechanic in the #9 car would be Al Neilson (sp?), I think. The 1912 car is the famous "mountain goat", driven by Fred Duesenberg himself. I'm wrecking my brain to think of who the riding mechanic is, I'm sure I know but... The Rickenbacher pic is from Elgin in 1913, Eddie O'Donnell is the riding mechanic. It's the "drop-frame" Mason, later to become the first Duesenberg.
Dubya, you're selling yourself short: the white coloured Sizaire going up the hillclimb course would have been be that of Don White, before he divested himself of it, and his other (4 cylinder) Sizaire. You were correct. The blue car is that of Guy Ravenscroft .. and it has since gone to France. BTW ... I had a letter last year from Bob T .. his normal "shopping car" was on the blink and for a time - in winter in the high country of the South Island of NZ - he used the Sizaire to commute. He admitted that he hoped he did not have to stop to, for example, fix a puncture on the side of the road: hypothermia would have been a certainty! What a guy!
aha, I noticed the late plate on the car and thought I must have had it wrong, I guess Guy borrowed one from a local. I admire those guys who use their cars like Bob. Michael you're right, auctioneers typo Al Neilsen is written on the back but looks like the same handwriting as the to Denny from Ernie Olson on the front so strange for the year to be wrong. The Rickenbacker one I guess you could put down to that white stuff they inscribed them with which doesn't look like it was easy to use
Yes the second photo is of a different engine. That is a new counter-balanced crankshaft I had made for it, which takes the place of the original without any changes. As they are very light weight and have hollow crankpins they are known to break on ocasion after much abuse. If the engine and transmission get out of alignment it can also cause one to break. In light of their importance a new crankshaft can be a good insurance policy to ensure against destruction in the case of breakage.
T-head just a dum observation, but wouldn't it have been easier to just drill the crank for full pressure oil to the rods. It seems they went to a lot of work catching the oil thrown off the mains and directing it with no pressure to the rods with the little scoops. I understand the hollow rod throws were to lighten the crank. They could have drilled the crank and capped the hollow rod bosses. Were any engine full pressure at this time?
Yes that is another way it could have been handled. It would have required a pressure pump also but that would not have been a problem as other engines of the time used pressure oiling. Porter may have done this for several reasons. It has been calculated in the past that the oil thrown out by centrifugal force actually reaches over 10 lb.. pressure in the crankpins at speed. I do not know if this was his own design or someone else's. I have seen a similar system in a later Mercedes SSK we rebuilt so they may have also have used it earlier. A pressure pump at high speeds will take several horsepower to drive which would be lost horsepower ***uming Porters system works. So he effectively used what was already there without all of the complications of a pressure pump and lines which broke quite often in racing back then. He also cleverly used a sump in the oil pan as usual but isolated it from the rotating engine parts with a floor between the two. This is done in modern engines for racing and is called a windage tray. It Keeps the rotating m*** from flinging more oil around that it would pickup which would also take away more power which has been estimated to as much as 50 HP in a high speed modern engine.
I would also suggest that it was applied at the later date than 1913 given the spelling of Rickenbacher as "Rickenbacker" which was not commonplace until after Rickenbacher enlisted in the Army.
Great photo onelung. I'd like to know more about the car in the Flickr photo. I also have my su****ions as to it's legitimacy, maybe he found a boat and yanked out the engine, but one can never be so sure so i'll keep my trap shut. There was a Lion built in 1910 with a 100mm/300mm De Dion single which made around 33hp @ 2500rpm's, i wonder what happened with that.
I just found this photo with the following caption, I do not know if it is correct or not. I am sure someone out there knows more. Photo taken of driver Clive Gallo in his 1922 Aston Martin at the Grand Prix de L'A.C.F. Strasbourg..This photo came from the Collection of TASO Mathieson.
Kurtis, I have a picture of that car running here in the uk, sadly at work so I cannot post you will have to wait till later Keith
Clive Gallop--DNF--30 laps--engine. The other Aston was driven by Louis Zborowski and he didn't fair much better. Some extra photos here.. www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z14399/Aston-Martin-Voiturette-Green-pea.aspx
A 1899-1901 Knox three wheeler with the air cooled "porcupine" engine so named because of all of the pins screwed in for cooling instead of fins. This is a very early colorized postcard depicting a compe***ion event of some sort. Can anyone enlighten us?
Will see what can be found. So...how about some details on that wonderful camshaft/ tappet/ valve set up on those engines. so much fun to be found. Part of the neatness of the early engines is all the different ideas that they came up to make them go...or not.
Good point! It actually looks more like "1419" , but given that neither "Rick" nor Mason did any racing in 1919, it simply has to be 1913. As for the Duesy pic, it looks like it's a dedication done some years after the event, so maybe Ernie's memory was'nt that crystal clear anymore. The livery of the cars is certainly the one used early in 1921, and I actually used this very photograph to identify the individual cars after the numbers changed at Indy that year. FYI, 9-10-11-12 became 9-6-5-7.
Exterior and interior views of Harry Millers shop. The newest car in the parking lot is a 1928-29 Model A roadster. These two photos came from the same source as the Miller Marine photos with Shorty Cantlon in post #1510 so it is probably at the same time around 1929.
Race drivers in goggles and dust jackets wait for the starting gun at Ascot Speedway. Ralph Hamlin is driving the Franklin Model H; "Greyhound" is printed on its hood. Original photo caption in Los Angeles Times reads: "Waiting for the starting gun in the twenty-four hour race at Ascot Park yesterday afternoon. In the trying day-and-night automobile grind. 1908
Greasing the wheels of industry...i know what i'd rather be doing.. a bit small but ......here ya go . .
1929 from herald Examiner Archives. Outside the front door at the Long Beach Avenue Shops. Harry and leo looking pretty happy, as is one of Harry's many pets - probably happy that he just sold the business for a handsome profit (and just before the market crash at that) and leo was happy just to be outside and have a moments respite from Harry's parrot that had free reign inside and was fond of nesting on Leo's cranium. Wish the building was still around, long gone and currently in its place is huge industrial complex. The 1930s era Miller Shop on Grammercy Place is still there (including the adjacent small residence) and currently operating as a food bank wharehouse. Sure wish someone would start an 'active' Harry Miller website and forum.
A couple of more photos from Harry Millers shop. I remember this car but not enough to describe it, I am sure one of you can fill us in. I think the gentleman with the gl***es was called Doc Caddy and he used to go to the races and to Indy to help racers get their Miller carbs set up and jetted correctly.
Another set of photos from Millers shop. A set of carbs, a supercharger and a couple of blocks, one maybe a 91 or 122 block which were used in pairs and a rod. I am guessing the larger block is a marine block with its rod along side.
That's John Brydon's car, Keith - with which you'll no doubt be familiar (you lucky chap, being so close to all that VSCC action over there!). He also has some other rather interesting "toys", not least the CGV, an image of which I'll post later. Here's the Pug, slightly larger.. I still have reservations about the "correctness" of the exhaust system, however
Hi Kurtis - the Peugeot in the 1912 shot has the 3 litre 4 cylinder engine, as you are no doubt aware, and the Corre-la-Licorne from 1910 has, according to Karslake's "Racing Voiturettes", the 300mm stroke De Dion engine. Yes - wouldn't that be an engine to buid a car around! I was under the impression that the long stroke Pugs peaked out with the 280mm V-twin. But then, I've been known to err (just ask my wife..)
Furby, I think that last comment of yours is the reason I find so much attraction from the veteran era cars: all experimentation and "finding their way.." The Sizaire carby doesn't have a throttle ****erfly - it's just a jet sitting in a venturi. Control of the "power" (ahem..) is by varying the lift on the inlet valve. For this the camshaft is tapered and made to slide back & forth via a yoke (correct term?) linked to the centre-of-steering wheel control. The lobe on the LHS of this shot is the decompression position for starting: it lifts the inlet valve slightly on the compression stroke. The engine will actually run in that position, but spits most of the mixture back down the carby, as might be expected.
The Jalopy Journal
