Bad photos are better than none, right? The Pop Green single stick on what looks to me to be a Fronty head, he made a transmission adaptor also.
Thanks T-Head, Michael Ferner and Bob for the info you have provided. I did some more searching or more reading of articles from The New York Times. As i said previously i focused my research on Willie Haupt but soon became a little more interested with the Roberts and Robertson connection with Harry S. Houpt. I did come across some info in regards to the 1909 Brighton Beach 24 Hour Races in which George Roberston did in fact participate with the Houpt-Rockwell but the article was only a progress report after the 4th hour. Some articles were found on Montague Roberts testing the car and possibly entering an endurance race with the blessing of Houpt himself. Roberts was initially forbidden to race anything as per his contract with Houpt for fear the company might lose it's most valuable member which is why Robertson was hired as a driver. The article also has a half page photo of the car which was more or less a stripped down Touring and not racer. There was no mention of Willie Haupt except for the article i spoke of earlier. I guess i'll have to continue my search on whether he did have some involvement with the company but in October 1909 he raced a Thomas in the 200 miler at Philadelphia and also the same car in the Vanderbilt Cup but there is no mention of him ever driving a Houpt-Rockwell. George Robertson was still racing the Locomobile up to May of 1909 and in a June 1909 TNYT article it stated he was given permission by Houpt to race a Simplex '90' in the Cobe Trophy at Crown Point in which he placed first and from what i have found he raced the same car well into 1910. So the question remains, What was his contract with the Houpt-Rockwell Co.?
Quote Kurtis; George Robertson was still racing the Locomobile up to May of 1909 and in a June 1909 TNYT article it stated he was given permission by Houpt to race a Simplex '90' in the Cobe Trophy at Crown Point in which he placed first and from what i have found he raced the same car well into 1910. So the question remains, What was his contract with the Houpt-Rockwell Co.? According to the New Departure Cl***ics book the only involvement was by Harry Houpt. His involvement seemed to be only want to handle the cars in NYC as a dealer. Was Willy his nickname or was he his son? From what I found in the NY Times Harry was an architect and in real estate. This got me thinking about Willy maybe being his son?
Bob .....neat photos, is that from a Green catalog or an ad? Do you have any photos of the Green Super Ford with the front mounted blower?
A postcard mailed on the day of the race in Los Angeles. The back tells us a little more in an interesting message from Josephine to Henry back in Michigan. Dated April 11,1910. Does anyone know what race Harroun won that day? The car appears to be a Marmon 30 judging by the unusually large rear hub caps they had.
T-Head, Harry's father Missouri B.Houpt was an architect from Wilkes Barre, PA. Harry himself built many homes in Pelham, New York until his death in 1925. He was also one of the most prominent Auto dealers in Manhatten starting in 1905 as a distributor for the E.R.Thomas Motor Co. and later the Lozier and Herreshoff before he built the Houpt in partnership with Albert F.Rockwell and his brother in law Dewitt Page who were owners of the New Departure Manufacturing Co. In 1910 Houpt sold his shares and concentrated on being a distributor once again and at one time was the Vice-President of ALCO aswell as selling the Mitchell. In 1915 he founded the Hudson Motor Car Company of New York and soon after had the small coachbuilding firm, Clayton Body Co. build a boat tail speedster on the mid priced Hudson ch***is. Willie Haupt is no relation to the Houpt family.
I've heard that they had auto races at the Marshfield (MA) Fair, which is one of the oldest fairs in the country...Ive been trying to find info on it but have been unsuccessful so far...I do know that they raced motorcycles there right at the turn of the century...On display in their archives is the race program and the trophy cup from 1909...
T-Head RE the Marmon question: The only race I have Harroun in car #21 is the 1910 Vanderbilt Cup race. What race the photo on postcard was from I don`t know. It cant be from that race as the Postcard is postmarked April 1910 and the VC race was in Oct 1910..... http://www.champcarstats.com/races/191019.htm
T-head,more information! I just checked my Wallen Board track book. The postcard was mailed after viewing the opener at the Playa Del Rey boards. The dates are right and there was a bad Apperson wreck. Horace Hanshue was the Apperson driver that had a rollover accident. Checking in the Wallen index Ray Harroun won a 100 mile race on April 8 1910 at Playa Del Rey in a Marmon 30. Does not give car #.
Being from New England I have heard about the Marshfield races but do not have any info I can post. Here is a colorized postcard of the more well know Lowell Road Races. To bad they went over board with the color, I cannot identify the car by sight but it looks like the #3.
as this is a treasure trove of pictoral evidence, I am looking for pictures of a race car with a FIAT radiator, double chain drive, RHD, a straigh exhuast pipe down the left side of the car, and the body i posted a picture of...somewhere in the post '14 era.
When I was a little kid there was still the outline on a track i Hayward California. Mostly overgrown in trees. Some light posts still that was 1958 so the track was no doubt prewar. Anyone know the history of this place?
We have all seen the cl***ic Packard Proving Grounds photo of Leon Duray and another car lapping the new track. I think at the time he set a record of 140 or so mph. I found this photo recently which I have never seen before. I don't know if those are Packard employees or his crew but it is a very interesting photo. Note the puddle of oil under the car about where the rear or front? main bearing may be. With the FWD the front of the engine could be in the back, have to check on that. **** Thanks to Buildy links below we know it is the front of the engine that is leaking or maybe on oil line.
View where engine meets trans. http://www.milleroffy.com/HF09_r140_02.jpg View where engine meets cowl http://www.milleroffy.com/HF09_r140_01.jpg Story http://www.milleroffy.com/Feature Story.htm
Three more Packard related racing photos. The first is an early 1904 Packard that set a non-stop 1000 mile record. Twin6 sent in a photo of a wrecked one on an earlier attempt that lead to a crash and death when the lights at the track went out. The middle photo shows Carl Fisher at what looks to be a high rate of speed in a standard Packard 6 cylinder touring with wire wheels. Maybe this was a little pace car testing? The third photo is labeled 1918-19 Pace car. It is at the speedway and if it was the pace car it was yet to be lettered. I recall a similar vintage Packard pace car at the head of the field before a start but I recall it as a lighter color. Anyway, Packard probably sent a whole fleet of them there to use for the free PR. ****** thanks to buildy here is the photo of the 1919 Twin Six V-12
Thanks to the very resourceful Buildy, we have the answer to the which way is the front of Miller engine headed question in all of 11 minutes!!! He would be a good guy to have on a pit crew......Thanks T-H
T-Head, The 1915 Packard was the Indy 500 Pace car that year. The photo on the Rt is the 1919 Indy 500 pace car,and a beauty is was! http://indymotorspeedway.com/500pace.htm
Thanks to my good friend and photo searching sleuth Twin6 we now have a photo that really makes my day. The Houpt-Rockwell at Brighton Beach? for a 24 Hr. grind (The signs look just like the ones that Peter Helck painted of Brighton and there are tents also). I will post more about it later. Thanks Twin6 ******Studying the photo already I can see that on the seat that it is an Allen-Kingston. Look at the AK in a circle. The Houpt-Rockwell was the continuation of the Allen-Kingston and they are basically the same car. I am guessing this is after the race as the car is filthy, the lamps look covered with oily dirt and the Conn. license plate is clean which leads me to believe they may be headed home. The fact that it is a Conn. and not NY plate might tell us this is after Houpt-Rockwell took over as they were from Bristol Conn. It may be the same car that Martin and Hartman finished 3rd in? See the clipping.
Re: post 1733, there is a nice copy of this on the MMM site, with this description: "Packard Co. file photograph of a 1928 Packard race car being checked out by three men, driver behind wheel. Inscribed on photo back: Packard Motor Car Co. Proving Grounds 2.5 mile concrete speedway, Utica, Mich., inauguration ceremonies 14 June 1928; Leon Duray, 91-cubic inch front drive Miller special #4, set closed course one lap record of 148.17-mph, thus did proving ground track become the world's fastest speedway, a ***le held until the opening of Monza in Italy after WWII."
Will pull my copy when I get home. also check this link: http://www.teamdan.com/archive/book/venues.pdf pg. 33 shows a road course in San Leandro, but nothing in Hayward proper. The oakland speedway was located on Hesperian blvd and 14th Street in San Leandro.
Re: post 1735. The 3rd photo in the top row is another at the MMM site with a helpful writeup: "Inscribed on photo back: 12-cylinder, 90-horsepower, 128-inch wheelbase, third series twin six, 3-25, special runabout, driver Jessie G. Vincent, p***enger Ralph de Palma, this car with Mr. Vincent at wheel, functioned as official pace car at Indianapolis Motor Speedway Memorial Day Race, 30 May, 1919, during which event Mr. de Palma drove Packard "299" racer #4 to sixth place finish, noteworthy design features: bright metal radiator and headlamp ensemble set further aft than on production models, boat tail or semi-boat tail rear. Note relationships a**** fender, rear deck and spare tire, solid unbroken ch***is apron between body and running board." I think photos of 299 have been posted before.
Some race and related Packards from the factory archives that are online somewhere I can't recall. 1: 1916 Packard twin speed race car at New York speedway (Sheepshead Bay?) 2: 1923 Packard race car, view from rear 3: 1923 Packard race car with 1919 Packard race car, three-quarter rear view 4: 1923 Packard special speedster, front elevation view 5: 1925 Packard roadster, nine-tenths right front view, race car driver Tommy Milton at wheel 6: 1936 Packard touring sedan and race car driver Wilbur Shaw at Indianapolis Motor Speedway, Memorial Day, 1936
I also found this photo at the MMM site that I had never seen before. It may have been sumitted here before along with the more popular photos. This photo is tiled 1923 Special Speedster at the plant. It appears to be the same car as above but finished and painted. Jim knows the details of all of these cars and I am sure has covered them before.
I'm still researching the Willie Haupt & Houpt-Rockwell saga and came upon this site by accident. Great Matheson and Giants Despair Hillclimb photos circa 1909/10. These are some of the best photos of early American racing. Make yourself a snack and enjoy. www.digital.hagley.org/ *hit the search again as it won't direct you automatically and go from there to browse/search collections.*
This photo is a bit of a mystery. It is from the Bruce Craig collection but is mislabeled as I have found others to be. The label on it is Tommy Milton, Duesenberg, San Jose, 1924 but it is a Model T based car not a Duesey and the driver does not look like Milton to me but may be. The car appears to be a professionally built car with at least Ford based front and rear ends with nice dental drive wheels. I do not know how much more is Ford based but I am hoping someone out there can identify it for us.
The Jalopy Journal
