Kurtis, You are right. Hours could be spent digesting all the National racing related irems on Chuck`s Toyland! Quite a trove.
A National race car at the Minnesota State Fair races in 1916. This car I think was part of the Sloan troop of racers that hit the fairgrounds circuit. Reply from Rapid Robert: T-Head - Post #1901 are photos of the National raced by IMCA driver Ben Gotoff. He was also known as Ben Giroux. He raced from approx. 1915 to 1922. The National was his first ride, and was wrecked sometime in 1916, I believe. He is behind the wheel in the first photo. There are many photos of Gotoff and this car in a scrapbook once owned or still owned by Tom Saal. The late historian Don Radbruch also tried to do some research on him for his dirt track book, but turned up little. Gotoff even took a turn in the Blitzen Benz #2 in 1915 or 16. One of the unknowns of auto racing history. Love all this National material. Keep it rolling. Bob.
A National that I have posted before. It is a roadster or touring converted to a racing car with a very unusual high back seat. I guess these guys valued comfort. This photo is from the Banning track near DC.
T-Head, The high back body looks somewhat out of place but the more i stared it kind of grew on me. It even looks a little safer in some respects. Great photos. I also did a little info search on the Pierce-Arrow, more out of curiosity to find what thickness the panels were. How's 1/8 of an inch sound? Here's some of Dawson's Indy victory. As Batman used to say...
A great photo of Merz in a National #7 and Lewis in a Stutz 310 at the Playa del Rey board track. It looks like Merz has just won the race as the flagman has the checkered flag in his hand and it looks like they just crossed the line. Does anyone have the results of this race? This must be 1912 or later as the car in the infield appears to be a 1912-13 Stutz roadster.
T-Head - Post #1901 are photos of the National raced by IMCA driver Ben Gotoff. He was also known as Ben Giroux. He raced from approx. 1915 to 1922. The National was his first ride, and was wrecked sometime in 1916, I believe. He is behind the wheel in the first photo. There are many photos of Gotoff and this car in a scrapbook once owned or still owned by Tom Saal. The late historian Don Radbruch also tried to do some research on him for his dirt track book, but turned up little. Gotoff even took a turn in the Blitzen Benz #2 in 1915 or 16. One of the unknowns of auto racing history. Love all this National material. Keep it rolling. Bob.
A National racer that I believe was Lindy Bothell's at the time it was photographed. I am guessing these photos were taken in the fiftys. Another car that may also have been his is what appears to be the Wrightman Stutz before it was restored to look like a Stutz team car. The aerodynamic fairing on the front of the radiator can still be seen in the back of the photo of the National. The third National racer belongs to a friend and this photo was taken ten years ago on a tour.
Some photos of one of the Santa Monica Road Races that I am guessing are 1913-14 based on the Duesenberg in the first photo and the Mercer in the second. I do not know who was piloting the Mercedes but it could possibly be DePalma. The first photo is labeled Ocean Ave. and the second Death Curve. The map shows the coarse which was a little over 8 miles in length.
David, that is DePalma in the old Grey Ghost Mercedes which was resurrected for Santa Monica in 1914. Buildy, I am enclosing a zerox of the picture I spoke of regarding the National. My original is MIA but it is in some file somewhere I can only imagine. In fact the way I found this copy was in my Ben Gotoff file where I have a zerox copy of the whole scrapbook I got from Tom Saal when we were trying to figure out some of the pictures back in 1989. It was in the file because Gotoff (Giroux) drove what was referred to as the famous #8 National (can't take that to the bank but it is interesting and Tom thought it may be Dawson's car. I sent Tom a copy of this Motor Age picture -Motor Age 12/25/1919 , page 24). I am not sure Gotoff drove the Dawson winning car but maybe put #8 when he drove for Moross to increase the gate receipts (he later sued Moross and tried to garnishee Moross for non-payment). Gotff wrecked the National and there are several pics of the wreck in the scrapbook-not totalled. I believe he drove the National in 1915 (maybe in 1914 but not so sure)-he may have driven and wrecked the National in 1916. He then drove a Sunbeam in 1917 which he wrecked and he drove an Isotta in 1918 I believe and he also drove and wrecked the Bender in maybe 1921 and 1922. The Bender was Tom Alley's old Pan American (1917 Miller engine-similar to Oldfield's Sub). He was a second tier racer and I have found a few references in the press but were it not for his scrapbook we would know even less about him. As to the #8 National running a machine I am not so sure of its travails back into the winning chassis or if a shell game was played later on for its reappearance at Indy in the 30s and after in the musuem. Who knows-Jim
Oh, the humanity!! Jim, just read the side article about the tires and motorcycles being left for dead in France. 3500 MCs, good grief!!
I know I read that years ago-got a chuckle out of it. Who would have thunk the government would screw up with other people's money. No wonder we went into a depression in 1920. The problem with doing this research is getting side-tracked. When I would read the sports section I would often read about some boxer named Jack Dillon. It is one of those things where you can pick your surname out of even speed reading. I agree 3500 motorcycles is just a bit careless.-Jim
Jim - Spot on with the Gotoff info. I also have a copy of the Gotoff scrapbook (was it 1989 - so long ago!) in my files. I would disagree that his ride after wrecking the National was a Sunbeam, but rather Sunbeam powered. I have studied all those photos very closely and I think his car was constructed by him using the bare-bones chassis of one of the two remaining Harroun designed Maxwells from 1914. The radiator is a dead give-away. The Gotoff book also shows several photos of the Kennedy Special of Harvey Kennedy. It was Marmon powered. I also think it is also one of the 1914 Maxwell chassis, the third being destroyed at Tacoma in 1915. Only my opinion, but I'm sticking with it. Great photo and story about the engine from Dawson's National. Bob.
Bob, I haven't thought too much about the Sunbeam since I looked at the album back in 1989. I was trying to figure out which Sunbeam engine he had but gave up. I agree it was an amalgam of some sorts-you may be right on the Maxwells as the grill and frontal area is pretty familiar. I was more interested in how he scored a Sunbeam engine and was hoping to find out if it was one of the OHC cars. It has been so long I cannot remember any real conclusions. With the zerox copies it is a bit difficult looking at it with magnification. These old racers got used up after their first go-round so nothing much surprises me with the small dirt tracks. Did you ever figure out the Briscoe and what he was doing with that if anything? There was also a picture of the Sub but that may have been his fascination with the car more than any association he had with the Sub. Too bad he ate up the Bender-pretty decent car-Jim
Jim,of course there is no way to know,but maybe after the coal strike was over,National might have reunited the parts back into a whole Car #8 again. I hope that is the case at any rate. Seeing as the car was still at National,not sold off or farmed out to someone else,I`d say it is possible. That use of the 1912 Indy winner is a story I`d never heard before. I have another article,a sad one where they talk of scrapping Barney`s Christie racer. I think it was around the post WWI time frame when it happened.
I've seen a photo of that Christie with Firestone in tall letters on the side, was it the last one built?
Lee,I`m Sorry to say that the clipping I got was an e-bay auction that I didn`t bid on. I saved the photo,but it is so low res. as to be pretty useless. I will post it though so you can see the layout of the article. Don`t hold me to this,but when I filed the article several years ago I wrote 1919-Barney Oldfield Christie Scrapped. The last sentance of the article reads "Incidentally the Christie provided a veritable gold mine for the junk man." Oh the humanity. Lee,another hint that I just noticed is that it was in one of the Chicago newspapers. At the very top sliced in half it appears to read The Chicago Sunday something.... Possibly the Chicago Sunday Times. If someone finds a better copy of this in their newspaper racing history research,please post a copy or the text! More Christie action-Barney and Beachey 1914
Here is the caption for my Eddie Hearne Midget car that I didn`t know I had with the photo. 30 Apr 1922 --- Famous Racer Abandons Track for Stage: Eddie Hearne is in a new role now. He is playing big time vaudeville houses in the little car shown in the photo. Eddie defied death and gravity in the perpendicular cage. The new act is a thriller and Eddie is meeting with great success. Diameter of the cage 17 feet and its height is but 12 feet. ---
Lee, there was another article on the Christie being scrapped (Motor Age 4/24/1919 p.16). It was a very short blurb that said it was junked and the junkman resold the bronze and bearings alone for $450. If I run across the article again I will send you a copy. Buildy as to Dawson's National, as I said before the car today may be the car but it may need more of a story than lets say the Marmon Wasp. You and I and the others on this thread would do whatever we could to get the original motor and gas tank and rejoin it with the other components. I am not so sure that everyone in pre WWII corporate America had the same sentimentality of you and I and may have done what was expedient and then wrapped it up with a very believable story. Why they chose that motor and for how many days or weeks or months they ran it is anyone's guess. It may have been worn out puppy or it may have been more of a publicity stunt who knows-Jim
That Apr 20, 1919 SCRAP PILE FOR WICKED OLD FREAK article is listed in the Chicago Tribune's pay per view archives Who can tell us about this 1915 York Pa race and lineup
I need help with this one. It is said to be 1905 Barney Oldfield with Howard Hughes father, the owner of HughesTool. Photo is said to be taken in Texas. What car is this?
I`m from York,PA but I know nothing of this race. It seems odd that all the cars are from Maryland. I had seen the photo before. I would be most interested if any here do know the story.
The last car #13 appears to be a Stoddard-Dayton, they have the scrolls on the radiator front like this car and the same type of filler on the top. Compare it with Carl Fishers Stoddard- Dayton in the L.H. photo. Look closely and you can see their suitcases or a trunk inside the spare tire. Best, T-H
Buildy the only thing I can add is the engine looks very Thomas like but not the car. That does not mean it is one but their engines were designed by a French engineer. This might be a clue that it possibly might be a French car.
The Jalopy Journal
