Electrical problems back with a vengeance.

Kevin, I will offer my load tester to you again. It will test the charging system with the truck running and the battery under load.

-mikethegreek-

 

Do Chineese batteries require metric voltage regulators?

 

12V and no kick?
I'd seriously consider tossing in a known good buddy's battery.
I don't have enough experience w/generators wigging out, so this next one is a toss from far left field...
Alt diodes can go out, causing all sorts of issues that don't show on a meter. You gotta 'scope them (AC output conditioned to DC). Now, a gen is DC all the way, but can they fail in such a way that the volts/amps are all messed up?

 

From what I've read so far, just about everything has been covered. I can see why you are pulling hair on this one. The two things that come to my mind would be a sticking cut out relay in your regulator. This would try to motor your generator after shut down and is a big current draw. The other thing would be voltage regulator coil/point malfunction. As said earlier, if voltage output is too high your battery will be adversely affected. It will evaporate water quickly and overheat causing warpage in the lead plates. If it is a three pole regulator even the current limiter pole could be defective causing an abnormally high current output which wil screw up the battery and the generator.

A lot of the new type regulators I've looked inside of, did not impress me as being well built. A guy would be better off rebuilding an old original one that buying a new one. If you could latch on to an NOS unit or a good used old one, it would probably work better than any "new" item.

 

I was just thinking that we probably should have taken that regulator out of the loop when we were testing at the generator. I don't know if it is capable of producing any kind of feedback or not adding to the erratic reading we had at the gen posts...just a thought.

 

What ends are on the battery posts ,Its probably a dumb question ,Either your overcharging or your not charging and running off battery.The ones at the battery .Another possibility is something I cant remember ,but its something about the ignition switch .

 

I had a similar problem, messed around with the charging circuit for awhile, just like you, then decided since it didn't help it should be something else. turned out I had a exposed wire under the dash, that I could just touch with my knee every now and then. the wire was the one from the battery to the ignition switch. and that one was able to take enough power out of the battery to be dead after a coffee break. so what I'd do first is replace all the wiring in your charging/staring circuit. which means pretty much everything except for lights, horn and interior. no way it's your batt/gen/reg/starter if you have changed all that. ok, maybe .001% chance. but still. it needs to be something else

 

[No drain that I can find – absolutely nothing shows at the negative post.]

If I'm reading correctly Are you checking for draws off the neg terminal? I have always checked for battery draws off the positive side of the battery with a fused multimeter inline between the battery and the battery cable. If you are certain that you are not reading a draw, double check your harnesses for any chaffing or pinches that would cause an intermittent short. A dead short on an unfused wire can toast a battery quick. Another thing you can do when this happens is to touch the battery, generator, and regulator checking for excessive heat. Hot battery usually means there is a dead short somewhere. A hot Generator or regulator is usually internally shorted. But from whats been said I would concentrate on the reg and gen. And be sure the reg has been properly polarized. Hope something said gives you some new ideas.

 

So I gotta ask, is this new cheap battery your running up to the job? Like everything else these days, cheap batteries are not as good as the cheap batteries a couple years ago were. 12 volts should be enough to crank over an engine, at least for a short time, unless there are not enough amps on hand to do it. I know you got away with a light duty setup before, you were probably lucky, but if the current motor has a bit more compression then the last one had, or starts a little harder, the battery might not have enough reserve amprage to crank over the motor. Two batteries in a short time might also inducate a bad batch of batteries come off the boat, if they are the same brand batteries. I run the biggest, highest amprage battery I can fit into the battery hole, that has saved my but many times.

I would also make sure brake lights are not hanging on. In my 39, if you didn't release the brake pedal just right, the lights stayed on, even a new switch and a helper spring didn't help. A pair of brake lights will discharge a battery in a couple hours, and if your not looking for it, it catches you off guard. Gene

 

These may be stupid questions but it has not been made clear so far:

When you say "dead" after a coffee stop, does this mean:

A. it won't crank over

B. there is no power to anything, (ie lights, horn, spark at points with ignition on)

I ask because it isn't clear from your description. and the problem or solution could be very different.

Also, do you have a "Motors Manual"?

If you don't, get one. They can be bought at most used books stores or on line.
For those that don't know about them, they are a manual that was published for mechanics to use to repair all vehicles for the years that they cover, and it covers all aspects of the automobile. For your truck you could use a manual up to 1957 at least.

If you can read and follow the book, you can fix just about any part of the car, with some tools, and some patience.

They have a very good trouble shooting section, which I would use in your case.

I have had my share of gremlins over the years, but the Motors Manual has helped me diagnose almost all of them. They provide fairly easy tests for all of the parts in your electrical system.

By the time you have solved this problem, you will have become a better mechanic, which from my perspective is part of hot rodding.

Diagnosing intermediate electrical problems can be one of the most frustrating jobs out there. But if you systematically work through each part of the system, you will figure it out.
And you will know alot more in the end.

I know what it is like, I don't own anything newer than 1957, and some times old **** has problems, but that is part of the challenge. And I have learned alot by having to keep these things running.

Good Luck

 

You can have 12V in a batt and still have a bad one....it just won't put out the AMPS required to start. A voltmeter on it while cranking will sjow it immediately "dump".
Many cheap batts have low CCA ratings....

Wiring, wiring, wiring.....

 

Measuring 12v at the battery is a rough indication of battery condition. A static hydrometer test would show a weak cell or cells. A depleted battery will be weak across all cells.

How is the starter? How is the hot lead connection at the solenoid? I would suspect the starter or connection from this post. The battery going dead is only the symptom of what ails your ride.

You need to do a charging system test, which should include a load test and starter load test to see how much your starter is taxing the system.

Bob

 

Gotcha....ya know, sometimes the problem can be so simple, that ya just can't find it. Seems to be the norm with electrical issues.

 

Yes I agree.

It might be a good idea to tell the whole story from when you start out in the morning until the problem pops up it's ugly head and exactly what it is doing. Is it consistent? Does it always die after it's been run for a while or is it dead when you come back after sitting? Was the ammeter showing a charge before it "died"? Can you get it started with jumper cables?

The more clues that you include...the better chance of finding the problem.

I'm guessing that you are getting the batteries replaced under warranty and all is then fine for a few months?

 

Kevin
By now you no doubt have it figured out and I also don't doubt that you have already done this but if you haven't done so by-p*** the wiring harness and run a 10 or 8 gauge wire from the battery terminal on the rugulater to the batery post. I'm guessing the positive post because I'm ***umeing you have switched the old truck over to negative ground.

The other thing you can do is dial the damned phone. I can usually find a few minutes to come by and help you pull your hair out.

 

Hmmm. I would have put money on that generator being bad.

 

Did you see anything suspect as you were stripping it down?

 

Lots of good stuff on this one.

 

Ok, next test is to verify your gauges accuracy. Run some jumper leads from the battery posts inside so you can hook up your DVOM. Drive and watch again. You could also simulate driving rpm in the driveway if you neighbors don't mind. You should hold the rpm constant for a few minutes and watch both gauges.

The reason I say this is I have seen aftermarket gauges be off by a volt. I'm not saying yours is. What I am saying is that a good rule of thumb used to be the charging system with the battery charged fully, should be around a volt higher than the batteries 12.6 fully charged sitting. With modern charging systems, they will be as high as 14.6.

Sounds like your gennie is putting out ok. The regulator is my concern at this point.

Did you run a ground to the base of the regulator?

 

http://www.42fordgpw.com/voltage.html

 

My concern is that he might be over a short time boiling the water out of the cells if over charge is the issue. Hard to make enough current if the plates are not fully covered in the acid/water solution.

 

I've run cars for years with the gravity method of battery securement. It all depends on how hard it bounces and for how long, but this would show up as an internally shorted out battery. Agreed that 15V could **** out the water over time, and warp the plates, have you had to add water all along?

Go with the advice and get an accurate reading of what the thing is charging at.

Bob