Features VINTAGE SPRINT CAR PIC THREAD, 1965 and older only please.

Hi Guys,
Regarding the pavement sprinter, depending on your rules, engine location,the usage of anti roll bars, brake bias, and coils being the suspension of choice are all considerations. It is a whole new ball game, good luck.
For Old Bill,
Do you remember the Markos sprinter that Jackie Soper drove in URC IN 1961? an unusual car as I recall. Do you remember where it came from or where it went. Any photos? We always enjoy your material!

 

I`ll say,Old Bill you have quite a collection of photos.

 

not sure who the fat guy is in it but it belongs to circletrack40

 

Jeff VanDusen-a 360 driver from NY-took his dirt sprint car to run the Florida 400 at Desoto a couple years back.

 

That sprinter was owned by Patricia Markos; raced with URC by Jack Soper in 1961, twice in USAC by Soper and Bob Mathouser. Soper won two in URC. When it was sold it was advertised as a Kurtis chassis that finished 7th at Indy. The logical choice would by Duane Carter's 1959 Yunick No. 37, but if so it was greatly altered with a spring front, etc. At least it did have the tail fin. I don't know where it went after 1961; my best guess would be that it ran as a supermodified; lots of old Indy roadsters went that route-to Sandusky, Oswego, etc. As the Markos car it was both No. 51 and No. 54, usually white and blue but apparently white and dayglo orange at one point.

All photos are 1961 with Soper driving. The No. 10 is Bob Harkey in the Ogan Welding car.

 

OldBill, that car looks like the Enterprise car (#58)that Jim Hemmings drove in USAC sprints in 1959. I cannot believe it is the Smokey Yunick car from 1959, which I think was the 1958 DA Lube car with IFS. That experiment didn't work and they put a conventionl torsion set up on it.

 

It's not like cars were never changed or modified, but if it was either one they sure didn't spare anything.

 

That Yunick car #37 is not that sprint #54.

What is bizzare is it looks like a shortened dirt champ car with an Indy roadster tail grafted on.


Maybe the fin was added to a dirt car tail that didn`t have a head rest?

 

Yes, I know. I was addressing both Old Bill and Jim's theorys.

 

I meant to say that 54 car is not a roadster,sorry.


"That sprinter was owned by Patricia Markos; raced with URC by Jack Soper in 1961, twice in USAC by Soper and Bob Mathouser. Soper won two in URC. When it was sold it was advertised as a Kurtis chassis that finished 7th at Indy. The logical choice would by Duane Carter's 1959 Yunick No. 37, but if so it was greatly altered with a spring front, etc. At least it did have the tail fin."

Take a thumb and cover up that fin-everything in the photo says Dirt Car to me.

 

And such is my point.

 

Well I`m not the sharpest tack in the box sometimes. Sorry I didn`t understand what you were saying.-LOL

IF that car was any kind of roadster,they went to an awful lot of trouble to make a dirt machine!

 

Hi I am hopeful to find some info on a CRA / Ascot Owner Driver by the name of Vern Berry.
I have a Sprint that he raced as late as 1985 with CRA as #73.
The car is a single tube frame that has early 60,s running gear. It appears that it was updated for quite a few years. It might have started out as a CAE Car ? Sorry for the poor photo .
Thanks for any help !!

 

I have the same reservations as all of you guys about the Markos car. I'm pretty sure it was not derived from the Flynn No. 58 roadster. Aside from the fact that it is an upright, somewhere I have a photo of a roadster at Sandusky in the late 1960's that looks very much like the Flynn car, unaltered at that point. My only link to an Indy car is the ad to sell, which specifically said Kurtis chassis which finished seventh at Indy (with no year). The other KK's that finished 7th around that time are even more unlikely. I suppose it might be a much earlier Indy KK upright that was 7th, like the 1949 Agajanian 98 (a KK 2000 driven by Johnny Mantz and in 1950 by Walt Faulkner), the Rassey KK 3000 driven in 1951 by Carl Forberg or the Zink KK 4000 driven by Jimmy Reece in 1952 Are any friends or relatives of Soper around who might be able to clarify this?

 

Bill I was just about ready to go to Champ car stats and check results and try looking at photos,to try and see if any car looks likely.

That part about KK 3000 -4000 is a good call.

Anyone have any photos of the car that show the Nose better?

 

Buildy: This one shows it slightly better; don't have anything that shows the nose running gear. Looks like it might be a KK 4000.

 

Thanks,


I think the problem was we all read "Kurtis that ran 7th at Indy,and what jumped to mind was Carter in 59. Then we thought wait,that car isn`t a roadster.At least that is how it went for me.

As you pointed out,though there were other KK cars that finished 7th at Indy.

The nose looks like a KK3000 to me but those cars didn`t have a springer front end...
It was re-bodied(hood,tail) I think we can agree.

I sure would like to learn more if anyone has the story on this one.

 

To further confuse the issue, check out the Curtis-built Martin Bros. car that Al Herman drove to 7th in 1955. Imagine that one with the same nose and a tail fin!

 

Maybe that is what happened! The Kurtis/Curtis confusion?

Wouldn`t be the first time that has happened.

That car looks a lot more like it than anything else I`ve seen.

I`d post a link to the IMS photo gallery photo of the Al Heman #71 but the IMS photo library is all screwed up at the moment.

 

Here is the Car- Champ Car stats calls it a Silnes,But Frank Curtis was on the Martin team and could have built that car.


Old Bill I would say this is the car.

The radius rod pick up points are even the same.

Maybe Curtis put that fin on for subsequent attempts at Indy post 1955. They were all the rage there for awhile.

 

More to back that up.

Curtis Martin Bros 1956-DNQ-I don`t have a photos,though...

Chuck Weyant 22 Martin Brothers Curtis Offy -- Did not qualify

1957:

Dempsey Wilson 42 Martin Brothers Curtis Offy -- DNS, too slow

 

Found this 1958 photo of Dempsey Wilson in the Hall-Mar car in Jack Fox' Indy history. Note the tail fin! That book also lists the chassis (in 1955) as a Curtis. Maybe the Indy photo archives will have something better. The torsion front would have to been changed to a springer, but it sure looks close! Not sure this is the same chassis as the 1955 Martin Bros. car; can't really see the radius rods, etc., but it is the same ownership group.

 

The #71 was the Hall-Mar roadster shown here at Trenton 58 and Indy 59.

 

Old Bill,

I am about 99 percent sure it is not the Hall-Mar car.

Compare the photo I posted with the one you posted of the photo you provided earlier.

It is a dead ringer. I bet if we saw a DNQ photo from 56 or 57 we would see Frank Curtis put a fin on the 1955 car.

The radius rod pick up points are a dead giveaway,along with the drooping tail tank,and more.
I can see the identical rear radius rods in both photos,etc.

The Hall-Mar never finished 7th at Indy,either.

But you know what ices it off? Curtis was still running the Hall Mar car in 1961.As late as 62 I believe I saw the other day when I was looking at the rear engine Curtis stuff.

Curtis was involved with both Martin,and later Hall-Mar.

The Hall Mar is a Torsion car and much lower slung car than the 1955 car.

 

I agree that the Martin car is the likley car with a fin added. Near as I can tell, the Hall Mar car was the first Indy roadster built by Curtis and made its debut at Trenton 1958 with Wilson up.

 

Curtis may have built the 1955 car with Silnes doing the bodywork,not sure.

I`ve seen it called a Curtis,and I`ve also seen it called a Silnes.

Not sure what you call it. I guess a low slung upright car.Kind of Similar to a KK3000 wouldn`t you say?

 

Old Bill thanks for pointing out the 1955 car and also for your photos!

I was pulling my hair out trying to figure out what Kurtis car it could have been-LOL

 

Not unlike the style of several builders of the post war, pre-roadster era. The tail shape reminds me a lot of the Meyer built Iddings car.

 

I love that shot.

Tommy Hinnershitz driving IIRC.

BTW hasn`t the Hall-Mar been restored?

 

Yeah, that's Tommy H. at Darlington 1955, I believe. Don't know about the H/M car being restored though. Mac Miller has a pretty comprehensive list of restored roadsters and the only Curtis he shows is a 1964 car (?) Maybe he'll chime in.