Are traditional hot rods and Customs too perfect now?

My take on a traditional hot rod is just something built from a random assortment of parts, that is ment to go fast...

In "the day" not everything was ment to go together and if a guy got a good deal on a '49 Merc flatty, a T roadster, and a duece frame that's what he used... I got a smokin' deal on a '22 Dodge frame, a 223 Ford, a set of artillery wheels, '28 Poncho grille, a model a box, and one of these days an 18-22 Dodge touring front half.. That's what I'm using, it's by no meens a rod that meets the "formula of a traditonal hot rod" (you know an A roadster on duece rails with a flatty and what not) and it may not have a super hot engine, it will be nice but relatively bare bones, and it will be half way quick... It could by some be called a traditional hot rod, and even though it won't even be close it could be called a rat rod too.. To me it's just gonna be my hot rod, it probably won't win an award, it most likely won't get stuck in a mag, but I do hope it leaves an impression on some one, just like a picture of a hot rod from "the day"...

 

Being well past 60, I like what you have to say.

 

I agree with that guy too...

But I just heard that the 'roadster' he was working on 2+ years ago still ain't done.

So was he simply full of shit? You be the judge!

 

I still think we all try to attain a level of 'perfection' that's a little silly, but I don't think the traditional cars most guys build to drive are too perfect.

But the high-dollar cars I find myself drooling over in the magazines are way over the top... Just like all high-dollar magazine/show cars...

It's a pretty insignificant group all in all...

Where it becomes a problem, is when Joe-6pac (me!) starts to think the car he's working on can't leave his shop untill it looks like the cars in the magazine.

It gets real hard to justify a 'Traditional Rod' that costs more than the average house in America to build. It's a fundamental bastardization of the point of traditional rodding to me.

A traditional rod that isn't driven isn't a 'traditional rod' to me... It's just not.

A silly show-car is a silly show car to me regardless if it's 'traditional' or not.

The only 'Traditional Rods' that shouldn't be driven regularly are those with historical significance or those that aren't street legal. It's something that people on the HAMB have said for ever and may sound a little cliche or tired or preachy...

But look at a lot of the cars that are being built lately... How many of them crossed the line somewhere from street driven Trad rod to silly show car?

In the end, for 99% of us, this is a hobby... And as such, it's primary purpose is to put a smile on our face and provide us with a break from the shit life piles on us the other 6 or so days of the week. If attaining 'Perfection' brings the swelling in your prostate down, rock on... But if it doesn't, stop listening to all the 'EXPERTS' and just build something fun...

Pissed off, uptight guys with bitchin cars have missed the point.

DIY

-Phil

 

Man, I love this. This is great!

 

Hard to answer. What is perfect to one is not perfect to another.

 

Instant communication, via your computer, changes the way you look at your car. Seeing what others are doing, and how they do it, makes you redefine what is good and bad. Where a guy would have taken his ride into the garage and spent a month doing things he liked, with input from magazines, a few friends and relatives, now we see endless pictures of beautiful metal work and great lines that photoshop brings well before any cuts are made. The quality of the car, in both design and construction, goes way up and they become safer, but we are also homoginizing the group. Everyone seems to be defining "right" the same way now, so cars are tending to loose their individuality as we reach for the "perfect" that has been defined on the internet. When do guys stop working on their cars because the feel they could never be good enough to "compete" with those they see being built on their computer?

 

The spirit to me is doing what you can with what you have with no appoligies. It seems way to often people will get caught up with period parts/stuff that if you dont have correct valve covers or 3x2's or something to that effect gets you jeers....in my eyes, if you built it YOURSELF and did the work YOURSELF thats the epitmy of the "real" Hotrod movement. Not everybody can afford period correct parts, but that doesnt make me less of a "hotrodder".

 

I guess it would depend on the purpose. For me, I need to drive my car and don't want or need a trailer queen. I never had the money to build the all out show stoppers. But then again I had a 57 corvette that was restored and it was too nice and too valuable to drive everyday. At the same time I had a driver 64 vette and a 30 roadster that I drove the dog out of.

That was 20 years ago. Now I want cars I can drive everyday and enjoy. If it's too nice to drive it's not for me. Some want a driver and some want a show car. Perfect is the car YOU enjoy! I think we get caught up in wanting everyone else to build cars we like. I've gotten to the point where I enjoy them all and can appreciate them for what they are. We can't take these with us when we die...So lets enjoy our hobby and each other for the cars we create.....

Man I hope this doesn't come across preachy........ I continue to learn from the HAMB and try to read more than I post.

 

I hate adding to outdated threads, but I missed this one the first time around. Kevin, well said, and still very applicable.

I like the comment about civil war re-enactors, I actually use that analogy all the time and have for years. The guys who "get" what "traditional" hot rodding is about are dorks - I'm one. We're full-blown car nerds who choose to obsess over the minutia. That's what makes me laugh about these "tough guys" or rockabilly-costumed dimwits who show up to events with attitude. Really? You're dressed up in a '50s costume driving a black primered four-door, or an overly chopped coupe that drags ass, and you're going to give everyone attitude? It really jades me to this hobby sometimes, just as much as the snooty goldchainers. A dick is a dick no matter how much money you have or spent on a car.

As for the perfection thoughts, I find it hard to not go "too far", just look at May Cause Dangerous. I love that car, but in the end it was too nice for me, and it was no "high-end" show car.

Fast forward to the Legion Special. My mind (and Matt's) has, on many occasions during the build, tried to go further than necessary. Thankfully Matt has reeled me back in, and I him, when needed. There are lots of bits on the car that we could have spent more time on perfecting, but instead decided to leave some "character" in them. The other thing we have done all along the way is to say "how would a guy building a racecar in 19XX have done this?" This thought process has really kept us from going "too far" on the car.

Because of this, I am not afraid to beat the shit out of the thing.

 

Yes is my answer. Wow, what a topic! Perfection! Such a tough word. Like everything build to the best of my ability .Always build a driver! I agree with Sam on this one.

 

Cars like Rudy's 33 coupe, even though unfinished, are already perfect. There is an attitude and feel that comes through that gives the car its character long before the paint and interior are done.

So does finishing the car out with shiny paint, perfect door gaps, upholstery, etc make the car better? Well it definitely makes it more polished, and some people need that.

But an unfinished car is still just that - unfinished - which allows you to still plan and envision what you're going to do it. For some, this is a more enjoyable phase of building a car than the finished product.

 

old post, but i'll chime in. Some of the coolest car photos, i mean the ones that really get my blood pumpin are mock up pics. Before they are blown apart for finish work. Rough, and mean looking. I think sometimes the parts go together just right, and hot rod magic happens"the look"...

 

Yes, they are too perfect now. Hot rods are built to be driven and enjoyed, not trailered around, prissed up and looked at.

 

I can't recall where I ran into this term, but there's a Japanese concept called "wabi-sabi".
A perfect translation of it is apparently complex and difficult, but in my understanding "wabi" means handmade, imperfect; "sabi" means weathered and worn. Although these have been important components in Japanese aesthetics for a very long time, I think it's only recently that their appreciation has passed from antique buffs to hot rodders.

For me, it's a comfortable sort of shorthand. A car with wabi-sabi shows evidence of its having been hand-built and used for quite a while, rather than being mass-produced or over-restored.

Edit: Doh! I just realized that I got "wabi-sabi" from this thread about a year and a half ago. Shame on me for thinking I brought some new & wise thing to the party.

 

I'm still confused on the word traditional Im traditional. my grandpap was a Drunk , my dad was a Drunk , now i'm a Drunk I may not use corn squeezins or white lightning but I get just as drunk thats a tradition I think the hot rods your talking about are period correct. traditional would be building a hot rod with the best parts you could muster Just like the hot rodders before you

 

I agree they are becoming too perfect. So much so that I have totally lost interest in buying mags like TRJ and TRK. R&P and HR Deluxe are the only ones I bother with now. No, I dont dig rat rods, I just like rods and customs that are a reflection of the average joe, built in his shed on a tight budget. Pro built cars do nothing for me. My A tudor is being built by me, in my small shed, and I am doing everything, panel, paint, upholstery, wiring, all mechanical, etc. It wont be perfect and it wont be a shitter, just a representative of how I remember rods being built back in the late 50s and early 60s.

 

i also don't like to get involved in threadsurrections, but this one is timely.

a little while back, i started a thread asking how they REALLY looked back in the day (finish level and execution). as is usually the case threads like that go off course and turn into arguments, but the point was that old grainy pics rarely give a TRUE representation of the ACTUAL level of paint quality, door gaps etc... no more than over restored cars do.

so what?

so the reason i care is because i just bit the bullet and sent my 52 to Ian Berkey's for a little of the kustom routine. the plan was to just shoot it semi-gloss and drive the piss out of it. then i started thinking... well why not just shiny... and black... and flames??? then i started looking at my pocket book.

at some point i had to reconcile that i would do the best i could with the money available and be happy with it. i'm not doing it for other people, but for me. it will still be shiny and black and have flames and all the exterior trim will be nice and shiny and it already has a finished interior. and would probably pull trophies at certain shows, but thats not why i'm doing it. i'm doing it because if i don't, my wife will nag me until the car is done how SHE likes it.

i mean really, as was said before, how many REALLY bitchin' rods and customs never had the body off the frame or the doors and fenders off the body?? factory lines and gaps with neat paint and suspension. traditional? i think so.

then i was having a talk with Trace Edwards of the Showcase of Kustoms about the whole jist of the show... he says to me... we judge them closed (doors, trunk, hood) so you can see the whole car, and don't worry if your suspension is all finished out or not... we're not going to look under the car.

i thought that was the coolest thing i had heard in a LONG time. so you mean i don't have to worry if my door jambs aren't perfectly wet sanded and polished or the underside of the trunk lid detailed to the 9's??? not that i'm building my car for show, but you get the point.

so yes, i do think that alot of what is being built today is over-done. for me, its a car that i'm not afraid to drive, that might even look pretty bitchin' with some rock chips. my 22 will be the same. as nicely done as i can afford. no cutting corners, just maybe not taking the long way around the block on everything.

 

I built my last car like I wanted it, not how somebody else thought it should look.
No ground off welds. (Not bragging but most of my welds look like done by a machine)
No chrome other than original, etc etc. Original type upholstery. Hidden radio.
Underneath and out of sight, the car is mostly race car stuff.

When someone brings a car in for me to work on, I do exactly what they want and offer no suggestions. Most of the time it works fine this way.
If they want suggestions, I take them out back to look at my car and see how I did it.
Sometimes they opt for my way and sometimes not.
Their car may not look good to me but I don't have to look at it after they leave.
I definetly don't believe that "My way is the only way".

 

I say the end doesn't always justify the means.
I know one thing for sure; Being pompous seems to be the
growing trend, but I reject that out of hand as being traditional.

I seriously hope that OP really is concerned about what
he personally thinks, as opposed to a concern about what others
think. If the car owner can't see why he loves his build, who can?

Perfect, as in super neat, for look alone? Clean, but casual?
Traditional, clean, perfect, are all elusive terms, but when somebody
goes out of their way to state that if it isn't clean it isn't really traditional?​

I recall a piece of shit Ford roadster a couple of months ago, that when it was posted the first thing I thought when I looked at it was, I really like that. It had no refinement whatsoever, with the fenders ripped off and the side aprons flopping, mechanical brake rods showing. No fake patina, just an old Ford that had obviously been rode hard and put away wet. I agreed with Ryan even before he said it, when his post pointed out that he thought it looked (bitchin' or cool, or inspiring,) my words but he meant he liked it a lot. On the other hand we all know that he enjoys the very opposite too; the fine tuned, the neat and clean.

So to a great extent I digress from judgement. I will assert very firmly however, even as I disagree with those that say "yes things are getting too perfect", because I believe perfect is acceptable also. I waffle by and stating...........

"It doesn't have to be perfect. It can be whatever it is."

Credit for that quote goes to the movie
ANGEL EYES.
but applies to a lot of things, cars included........
​

I guess what I said above was; "It really don't matter more than the price of one hill of beans"​

 

I like peanut butter and honey sandwiches.....sometimes, the bread is crooked and the honey runs down the sides....but ya know what, it still tastes good though....

 

I'd kinda like to think this is pretty representative of what folks were shooting for "back when". Small town Nebraska, 1955. No tractor parts, no "what's laying around", just do the best you can. Does doing the best you can make it too perfect?
Not mine by the way (wish it was). I was six in 1955. It belongs to the guy standing in the middle with his hands in his pockets. Is that Rick Finch?? (OFC inside joke)
Larry T

 

Not too perfect but just Perfect Larry T!!! Awesome!!! Love the '56 Olds wheel covers amongst the rest of the car.

 

No shame in taking pride in what you build...but I like my beater too.

 

Kevin, I think I understand what you're saying. 45 fin Buick drums are the new 350/350. I prefer really simple un-flashy cars. It seems like there's so many different versions of traditional that it's getting absurd. It sounds like you and Ryan look at things allmost like a couple of design students.

 

These were high school daily drivers where I grew up -- West LA, 1957. They were certainly among the nicest cars in the school, but they weren't in big indoor shows or magazines. Viewed up close, each of them had factory door gaps and some orange peel, and probably some rust showing on chassis parts.









I'm perfectly content to build cars to this level even today, although show cars have undoubtedly moved to a much higher standard of finish. I won't get on the soapbox about rusty and primered cars of today, but I wouldn't want to drive one.

 

In a word......yes.

 

Kevin Lee ... Great thread ... don't know how I missed it the first time around.

My first inclination was to answer YES ... but upon reading Kilroy's post (with the Ak Miller, Barney Navarro, Doane Spencer & So-Cal examples), I was reminded that the term "Traditional Hot Rod and Custom" probably has a different connotation to each and every one of us ... so for some builders, striving for perfection is absolutely "Traditional".

I guess what I'm really trying to say is:

It all

 

Were they too perfect then?

 

You want perfection in the late 1950's, check out Tom & Harry Jackman's '32 sport coupe. It made the list of 75 best thirty-two's at the GNRS a couple of years ago. BTW, I saw this car last year at the SD Auto Museum and the signage lead me to believe that it is a recreation, not the original car. Anybody know for sure?