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History Auto racing 1894-1942

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by kurtis, Jul 18, 2009.

  1. ehdubya
    Joined: Aug 27, 2008
    Posts: 2,315

    ehdubya
    Member

    Maybe there was something planned that never happened like that not so famous Aussie pusher driving a Napier at Indy :eek:
     

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  2. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    Photo of Jimmy Murphy and his mechanic, it is labeled that is was at the start of a race at Beverly Hills on the boards in the early twenties. It is from the collection of Frank Liston who was a starter and time keeper for many races including the Indiannapolis 500.

    Perhaps someone knows more details?
     

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  3. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
    Member

    That would be 1922.

    Nice photo,I hadn`t seen Murphy`s #35 car from that angle before.

    I can`t figure out what track that is.
    According to what I can find Murphy didn`t drive #35 at Beverly Hills...Maybe Kansas City


    Welcome back from Amelia Island,T-Head.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2010
  4. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
    Member

    This seems to match.

    Kansas City Race
    Kansas City Speedway
    1.25 Mile Board Oval
    240 Laps/300 Miles
    September 17, 1922

    Finish Start Driver Car # Sponsor/Name Chassis Engine Laps Status
    Points

    1 6 Tommy Milton 8 Leach Miller Miller 240 2:46:52.96 107.860 600
    2 9 Harry Hartz 12 Duesenberg Duesenberg Duesenberg 240 2:47:52.93 107.218 320
    3 11 Frank Elliott 9 Leach Miller Miller 240 2:49:46.00 106.028 170
    4 5 Ralph Mulford 21 Duesenberg Duesenberg Duesenberg 240 2:50:45.38 105.413 95
    5 8 Jerry Wonderlich 24 Duesenberg Duesenberg Duesenberg 240 2:55:46.47 102.404 55
    6 1 Bennett Hill 3 Miller Miller Miller 240 2:56:10.05 102.175 35
    7 3 I. P. Fetterman 31 Duesenberg Duesenberg Duesenberg 183 Flagged 25
    8 10 Howdy Wilcox 15 Peugeot Peugeot Peugeot 199 Out
    9 13 Joe Thomas 5 Duesenberg Duesenberg Duesenberg 151 Wrecked
    10 12 Eddie Hearne 1 Disteel Duesenberg Duesenberg 133 Wrecked
    11 7 Roscoe Sarles 34 Durant/Miller Miller Miller 114 Wrecked - fatal
    12 15 Peter DePaolo 4 Junior 8 Frontenac Frontenac 107 Wrecked
    13 14 Leon Duray 10 Frontenac Frontenac Frontenac 49 Out
    14 2 Jimmy Murphy 35 Murphy Duesenberg Miller 47 Wrecked
    15 4 Riley Brett 6 Frontenac Frontenac Frontenac 41 Out
    -- -- W. W. Brown X Junior Frontenac Frontenac -- Did not start
    -- -- Cliff Durant 34 Durant/Miller Miller Miller -- Driven by Sarles
    -- -- Ora Haibe X Frontenac Frontenac Frontenac -- Did not qualify
    -- -- Allen Mulford X Duesenberg Duesenberg Duesenberg -- Did not appear
    -- -- Al Melcher X X X X -- Did not appear
     
  5. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
    Member

    More details. Riding Mech. was Ernie Olson,and the Duesy had a Miller Engine.
     
  6. carl s
    Joined: Mar 22, 2008
    Posts: 745

    carl s
    Member
    from Indio, CA

    And it was I.P.'s last race.
     
  7. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,001

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    Bob,

    I too was interested as to what chassis was used but no info is available.

    I have found some technical data for the Mors 60HP as you requested and i also checked if anything is noted for any of the Peerless models without any luck.

    Here is the link with over 28,000 models listed www.histomobile.com
     
  8. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,001

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    My apologies to any A.L.F.A. or Alfa Romeo owners. I guess it's not the same in print than it is coming from the mouth. I'll try to remember this in the future.

    meanwhile....back at the races......

    Does someone have an idea if Nuvolari was actually doing any competitive laps at Indy in 1938?
    He is shown here with Harry Miller and Ralph Hepburn in the first pic and getting ready for a drive in the Welch-Offy.
     

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  9. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,001

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    Was the NY Yacht Club nearby? Just curious.

    As to Jeffkins, i wish he was remembered for the other races he entered in America and his homeland and not just for one unfortunate afternoon. Second only to Brabham in my book.
     

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  10. Vitesse
    Joined: Feb 9, 2010
    Posts: 265

    Vitesse
    Member
    from Bath, UK

    Yep, definitely the 1937 Vanderbilt and, as you say, the only time apart from AVUS that the swastika appeared on the cars at a race. But bear in mind that it was also usually displayed on cars doing record runs on German soil. The MBs and AUs also displayed the German flag on their tails at the 1934 French GP, but that was before the Nazi party flag was adopted as the national flag, so it was not the swastika.

    The only reason I can think of for the "Australia" sign is that it's a hangover from 1936, when perhaps that garage might have been used by Freddie McEvoy?
     
  11. Vitesse
    Joined: Feb 9, 2010
    Posts: 265

    Vitesse
    Member
    from Bath, UK

    Kurtis: I've been looking at Nuvolari's Indy visit recently. Although it was announced on May 3rd that he had entered the '500', by May 5th it seems clear from French and Italian press reports that Tazio himself had no knowledge of this (he was still recovering from his fiery crash at Pau and had actually announced his retirement from racing). I'd like to hear from anyone who can add anything to the "who, how and why" of his name being on the entry list.

    On May 15th Tazio attended the Tripoli GP as a spectator and then on May 18th he and his wife Carolina boarded the liner[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] Conte de Savoia at Genoa, bound for New York, where they arrived on May 25th. I haven't been able to find out exactly what date they arrived at the Brickyard, but even if it was the 26th that would have left very little time for him to acclimatise, let alone take a rookie test.

    I do know that he tested several cars, but the only firm offer of a drive that I've found was from Joel Thorne - no idea which car though. I've also seen a suggestion that he might have been nominated as a relief for Rex Mays, but I think that's pure American press fantasy.

    If you look closely at the picture of Tazio in the car, you can see he is actually still wearing his tie - one indication that he was just doing this for fun. Had he intended driving a racing car, I'm sure he would have packed - and now been dressed in - his usual yellow sweater with its TN logo on the right breast. He's also in a borrowed helmet and goggles - I don't think I've ever seen him in a car in anything other than his red leather wind cap, but equally I can't remember when hard hats were made mandatory at Indy.

    Lurani's biography of Nuvolari says he had no intention of driving there, but nevertheless tested two cars (one of which he apparently blew up after two laps?) and quotes him as saying of the '500'
    [/FONT]
     
  12. ehdubya
    Joined: Aug 27, 2008
    Posts: 2,315

    ehdubya
    Member

    Here's a September 1936 Time article on that year's Vanderbilt which states
    '63 drivers, representing England, Italy, France. Germany and Australia as well as the U. S., will start qualifying trials this week.'

    Who knows the story on this Alfa p3?
     

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  13. ehdubya
    Joined: Aug 27, 2008
    Posts: 2,315

    ehdubya
    Member

    1935 Alfa Bimotore
     

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  14. ehdubya
    Joined: Aug 27, 2008
    Posts: 2,315

    ehdubya
    Member

    Scuderia Ferrari and their 12c Alfas about to embark on their 1936 Vanderbilt mission and Nuvolari and the ridiculously big cup, note the props.
     

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  15. ehdubya
    Joined: Aug 27, 2008
    Posts: 2,315

    ehdubya
    Member

    Alfa P2s French GP 1924, Campari celebrates winning the Lyon sausage back when the champagne was alcoholic and they'd drink it and other alcoholic beverage before during and after a race.
     

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  16. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,001

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    Thanks Vitesse.

    I've never seen anything written about the two photos. I always assumed it was a publicity stunt and i can't really imagine him racing around in circles.

    The Rex Mays 8C-35 of 1938 was a spare at the '36 Vanderbilt Cup and was later bought by someone??, rebodied and driven by Mays in '37. Actually it was rebodied many times throughout it's life. There was an Italian report a few years ago suggesting that Nuvolari was to drive a Tipo 308 at Indy but the accuracy of this story has never been taken seriously otherwise there would be more info available. The Joel Thorne offer is one i have never heard of. Interesting.
     
  17. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,001

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    Thanks for the article.

    I don't know how or why McEvoy was representing Australia. He was always fond of England and the social scene. He also chose the Motherland ahead of his homeland when the Winter Olympic Games came around.

    Here's a couple of photos while we are on the subject.
    As a sidenote, i'm mightily impressed with the Billy Winn driven dirtcar. What a drive.
     
  18. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,001

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    Learn all about it here.. www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME3m1Rz2RzE

    Nuvolari and Louis Chiron drove two cars in the 1935 Tripoli GP to 4th and 5th places and Chiron finished 2nd at Avus. Apart from that the design never was good for going around corners.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. ehdubya
    Joined: Aug 27, 2008
    Posts: 2,315

    ehdubya
    Member

    Thanks Kurtis, the remains of that bimotore resided here with a local collector and from what I've been told there wasn't much survived. There's reports of others besides the two mentioned in that video like the P3 prototype with 2 6Cs and I've seen a picture of 8Cs side by side. I was referring to this car rather than 'the' bimotore

    [​IMG]

    I found it on an Italian site with no explanation labeled P3 B, looks like a couple of 34 sedans lurking.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2010
  20. Vitesse
    Joined: Feb 9, 2010
    Posts: 265

    Vitesse
    Member
    from Bath, UK

    That's the then just-completed and unpainted aerodinamica, built especially for the 1934 AVUS race. Picture taken during testing by Varzi and Moll on the Milan-Varese autostrada on May 24th 1934. Varzi hated it, so it was driven by Moll in the race, which was supposed to be the triumphant return to racing by Germany. Mercedes Benz withdrew during practice and the Auto Unions hit teething troubles so Moll actually won. A talented but sadly almost-forgotten driver, I believe he could have been one of the 1930s greats had fate not intervened.

    The two men standing behind the car are Vittorio Jano and Enzo Ferrari.

    Kurtis: re McEvoy. AFAIK he did this race on the way home to Australia after his European season in voiturettes. He had disposed of his private Maserati, but the company must have been impressed with him as his entry at Roosevelt Raceway was in a works car, which he shared with Lurani.

    You can find the mention of Thorne's apparent offer to Nuvolari on Google News advanced search. Can't remember exactly which paper it was in, but it's about May 29th.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2010
  21. Vitesse
    Joined: Feb 9, 2010
    Posts: 265

    Vitesse
    Member
    from Bath, UK

    [​IMG]This is another testing picture, taken in August 1935. The car is the first 8C-35, the driver Giovanni Battista Guidotti.
     
  22. ehdubya
    Joined: Aug 27, 2008
    Posts: 2,315

    ehdubya
    Member

    Thanks Vitesse, I'd guess McEvoy was 'Australian' because the organizers wanted international flavor. That 36 Vanderbilt 8c spare car was purchased by Bill White, it's the car Peter Giddings campaigns these days.
     
  23. onelung
    Joined: Feb 19, 2010
    Posts: 181

    onelung
    Member
    from Adelaide

    The ALFA aerodinamica in their museum: 2007.
    A minor variation in the grille detail...
     

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  24. onelung
    Joined: Feb 19, 2010
    Posts: 181

    onelung
    Member
    from Adelaide

    My word, the McEvoy story is something else altogether: what a movie that could make! Thanks for making me aware of him!
    From www.shorey.net comes this image, Monthlèry 1934.
     

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  25. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    I do not have anything Alfa to contribute but do have a photo of one of the huge early Fiat's. Added to the photo is a photo of the driver and mechanic?

    One interesting thing about the photo is the castle in the background, can anyone fill us in on these two men and the year of the Monster?
     

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  26. model.A.keith
    Joined: Mar 19, 2007
    Posts: 6,279

    model.A.keith
    Member

    More from last weekend


    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]




    .

    .
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2010
  27. model.A.keith
    Joined: Mar 19, 2007
    Posts: 6,279

    model.A.keith
    Member

  28. Vitesse
    Joined: Feb 9, 2010
    Posts: 265

    Vitesse
    Member
    from Bath, UK

    [​IMG]
    Just confirming Michael's ID of this picture, it appears in "Flying Colours" by LJK Setright, captioned as the 1899 Tour de France.

    Oh, and Kurtis - it's not "Athay", it's "Athy" :)
     
  29. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    I was fortunate to be able to go to the Amelia Island Concours this year. I was tied up there most of the day helping a friend, so I am sorry that the details might be lacking.

    The blue #24 I have no information on but I do remember seeing photos of it before restoration when it sold at auction a few years ago. It was in as raced condition before restoration. See Michael Ferners comments below ******

    ***** Originally Posted by Michael Ferner
    It's the 1932 Lupasa/Graham Indy Car (Lupasa Co. = Angelo Lucenti, Roy W. Painter and John C. Saunders), finished 10th in the 1934 '500' and 8th at Springfield that year.

    The burgundy Amilcar was very nicely done.

    One of Zimbrowskis Chitty Chitty Bang Bangs is next. It has been in this country for quite some time.

    The engine in Chitty which is aircraft.

    More photos of the rest of the preWWII cars to follow.
     

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  30. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,001

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    Where did i make that boo-boo?
     

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