Difference between a 354 and a 426 Hemi?

I have never dealt with a Hemi motor before and I am looking to put one in my 41 Willys (all steel). I have an opportunity to purchase a 354 Hemi (rebuilt w/3/4 race cam in it). No headers, pulleys, water pump, etc. Owner is looking to get $5,000 out of it. Is this a good deal?

Can some one tell me the overall difference between a 354 and 426 (besides just the size)? Am I going to be dissapointed with a 354 or should I step up and spend the money for the 426? We will want to add the fuel injected stacks on either motor as well.

I want the car to sound great and run great, but not be too overwhelming/radical. I want to run it on pump gas. It will be rebuilt the way it looked when it raced back in the 1960's.

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

Hemi tech index Completely different engines. Are you looking to race or just look/sound good @ the drive in & car shows? 5K would depend on what was done & if it was done. There's a fuel injection system for sale somewhere...maybe Hot Heads Classifieds, maybe 4K$. A 426 core can run 7-12K. A 354 can be a great engine & obvoiusly has the hemi look & sound. Might want to find out exactly what the specs on the "3/4 cam" is, comp ratio, ect.

 

That is correct they are completely different. The 354 is older and is patterned from the old small block mopar engine. Some of the current small block parts fit the older hemi's. The 426 is in the big block mopar family and shares similar parts with the 440 and even the 383. Older hemi's are some times difficult to get parts for to modify them for a certain build up. The water pump and piping to the heads, and pulleys can be a pain, as well as transmission adaptors. That's probably why they are not included. Also the right intake for the early ones can be pricey and hard to find. Hotheads is the biggest supplier for the early hemi. The 426 of course has the legend and the respect, however nearly everything for a 426 is pricey. They are just plain expensive engines and everyone that has parts thinks they are gold. Both are pretty engines and give you the hemi look. A 354 will run very well correctly set up. They used to run them in the old rail dragsters all the time along with the larger 392's. You can buy a new complete single 4bbl 426 crate motor for around 14,000.

 

With the history of the car, I want to ensure it is done right and don't want to look like I am cutting corners or going cheap on it. The car has a race history even though I am not planning on racing it. I want it to sound and look the part but be able to drive it on the road as well. I know the owner of the engine (he builds motors and is very trustworthy) but I am concerned about it being on the smaller side and/or not being able to find everything as easy for it. I will also have to determine if they make the fuel injected stacks for this engine as well. I have seen that they do for the 392 and 426 but not sure for a 354. Thanks for the advice.

 

The early Hemis Chrysler, DeSoto and Dodge were the first new engines the Chrysler group produced after WWII. Each family was unique, with only trivial parts interchange. The 354 descended from the long flange 331 produced for Chrysler automobiles in 1951.

The engines were not based on any previous engine; later some of the blocks were used with so called "poly " heads, which, with one rocker arm shaft, were cheaper to produce. Only Dodge and Chrysler ever produced "poly" heads; the last few DeSoto car lines were equipped with Dodge 325 "polys". Other than the poly heads all Mopar V8s made from 1951 to 1958 were Hemis. Despite a statement above these engine were not based on a previous "small block" engine.

Dodge trucks used mostly Dodge Hemis (if equipped with a V8); however, Dodge dump trucks and some school buses had Chrysler engines. Chrysler Marine produced Hemi's for boats with mostly Chrysler engines; there are reports of a few Dodges. Chrysler Industrial produced "stationary" engines from all three Divisions; I have a DeSoto 276 Industrial engine...the only one I've ever seen or heard of.

If you don't want a "big" Hemi, you should seriously consider the smaller and lighter Dodge and DeSotos engines (241-345 cu in) in their various configurations. The DeSotos have received attention of late with modern alum 4bbl intakes and new cam blanks becoming available. In addition to less weight, the Dodge and DeSoto engines are physically smaller and fit more easily between the frame rails and body work of traditional hot rods.

During the late 50s the most "cool" car to own by many Hollywood stars, including Frank Sinatra's rat pack, was the Dual-Ghia, an expensive grand touring car produced at the Ghia factory in Torino Italy; the car was essentially a 1956 Dodge D500 Hemi chassis under the elegant Italian coachwork.

BTW there is a good Hemi forum on the HAMB

 

You can buy stack injection for either mill. But unless you electrify you will not be happy with stack injection on the street.

Unless you've driven a 426 you won't be dissapointed performance wise at all. They say that if you've never had steak hot dawgs will do just fine.

A lot of baby hemis were used in the gasser ranks. So unless you know for a fact that your car was a 426 car you can't say that you are cutting corners. The 354 is a fine engine and no harder to find parts for than any other mill. I doubt that there is much difference cost wise in maintaining either the 426 or the 354. Face it you aren't going to find very much for either at "The Zone."

The price you are quoting for the hemi is in line with what is out there BTW.

 

Kevin, what did it originally have in it? Lippy

 

You'll need to get hilborn injection with efi if you want to run it on the street. Hotheads sells everything else you need. I'm working on a 392 with 354 heads and 2x4's right now. Dad is the one to talk to though, he's got a 5/8 stroker 354 with hilborn efi in his '41 pickup. 426's are better engineered with cross-bolted mains, bigger valves, meaty rods, etc. and are easier to buy parts for but I'll take the early ones anyhow. I'm in mansfield if you need some parts, I'd love to check out that willys anyhow.

 

If the car was run mid 60's or later there is a good chance it ran a 426. They were engineered from Chrysler as a race engine to start with and the folks that could afford one had a head start on the competition. That's not to say that everyone just junked the 392's after the introduction of the 426, but the 426s had an edge.
Larry T

 

First of all, conratulations are in order if you have a all steel 41 Willys! Rarer and much more valuable than hens teeth (who wants those when chicken lips will do?).
Parts are readily available for the 392, and chevy waterpump is a common replacement. IMO 5k might be a little steep unless it's fresh, but damn, Hemi's and Willys go together like, well, Willys and Hemis......... GO FOR IT!

 

The car won the Best Engineered award at the 1965 NHRA Nationals. At that time it had an injected Cadillac engine. It later was changed to the Hemi. I am trying to do more research on this as well to see if it had a 426 Hemi or what? I believe it was a 426. See this link for more info on the Willys and a few pics. of it and my 32 rare Rockne. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=457035

Elverne Pfeifer from Wisc. drove the car in the 60's.

From what I understand everyone saying here is that size in this case really doesn't matter all that much. For the cost of a 426, I may be better to stay with the 354? It looks and plays the part of the 426 relatively well?

Thanks for all your help!

 

The only resemblence to the 426 is that the sparkplugs come out of the center of the rocker covers.

I'm pretty patient when it comes to a build but in your case if I knew the fella that built the 354 and I was sure it was good I'd be all over it for the price.

 

IMHO it would be cooler with a Cadillac engine, and build to 1965 time frame.

David

EDIT Was it a426 wedge in '65????????????
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=433274

 

here is your car. 426 wedge motor

 

Wonder if it had standard 426 wedge block and heads or was it a max wedge block and heads with injection installed?

 

Very cool. Just my two cents but if I had a car with a history like that I'd be building back to it's original race config and burning it's tires off.

 

354 392 331 are cousins to the A series engines Ie 318 340 360 as far as block bellhousing bolt pattern extra go. Distributor is at the rear and even the timing chain and gears have been known to be used with minor mods.
The 426 Is a cousin to the 383 413 426WEDGE and 440 and shares many compnents like pan bolt pattern Windage tray, oil pump style and bolt pattern Timing chain and grears if a 3 bolt cam is used ) Distributor is same length and fit as 413 426 wedge 440 (And rare 383 RB from around 1959) Also waterpumps are interchangable between 383 413 426 440 and 426 Hemi as it the timing cover.
Don

 

You are in luck! The wedge will be cheaper to build, can be a variant, and will still sound great and perform well. You have history on your side to say wedge over hemi, so nobody would need to rip on you for the choice.

In the end, you will save $$$ and likely have better performance versus the 354

 

The 426 in your car was an RB Wedge engine, rather than a Hemi. Considerably less expensive to build than any Hemi, whether it's a 354 or 426!

Plus, you can build a 500+ c.i. RB-engined Mopar and no one will know different, while keeping the external look of the 426W engine.

Best of luck in your build - that sounds like quite a nice start you have.

Astrochimp, the 426W and 426 Hemi engines were both available in 1964 and 1965, where the 426W was discontinued at the start of the 1966 model year. The '64 and '65 Hemis were known as Race Hemis, and the '66-up engines were known as Street Hemis...very slightly detuned.

 

Thanks guys! You are a great help! Does anyone know where is best to find such a motor? Average cost? Guidance on where to shop?

 

heck, you could find a rather mild wedge motor of some size for around $1000. You can find a very nicely prepared hot rod wedge for under $5000. Check the classifieds on here, check Craig's List, search for a local shop that builds Mopar engines, etc.

 

72!

 

I would suggest doing a bit of lurking on moparts.
They have a lot of knowledge on modern race BBs.
I'd suggest trying to track down the intake if you are ready to bring that thing back in style. There are a couple companies that can convert it to EFI. Make sure they will service after sale, not just ship you the parts.
Stroker kits are available, and if you want manners and oomph, that's a good start.
Next is determining exactly how much race feel you are able to live with. That will determine cam selection. There are good HP heads out there now, but most will stick out in appearance. 440 source heads look stock but are lighter, have move flow stock and can be opened up to feed a hungry stroker.
If you have enough money to do it, I'd suggest finding a well-known Mopar engine builder and have them do the build. The HAMB is all about doing great stuff yourself, but your questions hint at a person that is not fully versed in all things engine...
Better to have it done once right.

Oh, and buy this book!
http://www.amazon.ca/How-Build-Max-...=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1269134679&sr=1-2

 

A 440 stroker (what--505 cu. inch?) would have the same look as the 426 wedge and run real well without being too radical.
Larry T

 

If you're wanting it to look correct, you need a B-block 361/383/400/413/426. The RB blocks have the ID pad in a different spot than the B-blocks, so people will be able to tell it's not a 426 wedge. B-blocks are easy to come by and very easy to get parts for. Check out www.440source.com for stroker kits, etc.

 

Or you could build a 440 OR build. Mid 500 hp and very low cost. In fact we often ran against strokers with no worries.
Early hemis are not that expensive either. Mike (Sietsma builds a old school Willys thread) found 5 331s in the last two years alone. I helped him do the one in the Willys. I had done one for my brother back in the early 90s and was surprised to find it was much less to do one now then then. His has an isky cam and raised compression and is now 340 cubes. I doubt he has $2500 in it including buying it. He put it together. i just drank root beer and gave guidance.
The OR 440 build is a brutal engine . Torque is awesome. Power is huge. All told a running version will run probably $3500 to $4000 and will run on good pump gas.
Don
Here is his 331 on first fire up http://www.dropshots.com/Dolmetsch#d...08-05/16:30:16
And here is the Mopar 440 OR (Old Reliable series of articles Chrysler Power Magazine)
http://www.dropshots.com/Dolmetsch#date/2009-01-06/17:55:57
despite its low cost this is a very serious motor. The car in this video wieghs 4250 as I am driving here. Car ran md 11s constantly with a best of 11.49 at 119 mph. I have built many of these for street use as well using a special hydraulic cam instead of the solid in this old video. As for bang for you buck it would be hard to beat. The original OR cost me $1865 carbs to oil pan although I did all my own machine work so another $1200 maybe.

 

fellow i used to work for, used to be a Dodge service manager back in the real day... he ran some drag cars and preferred the wedge over the hemi every time. he told me, the hemi had plenty of power but it was slower than the wedge in the quarter... not to mention it cost twice as much to build and run, because they tended to scatter parts if they were abused, where the wedges could "swallow lug nuts and spit them out". second hand lore, i guess, but interesting to hear him talk about it.

 

My friend Craig has 300+ big block chryslers and probably a dozen 426's I'll send you a PM with his info.

 

http://www.hilborninjection.com/product.asp?Id=380&CatId=177

http://www.huntmagnetos.com/distributor.html

You'll have to have hunt modify the distributor for the efi.

Here's dad's motor



And some stuff I have laying around

 

I'll add my $0.03 worth...I agree with most of Don's (Dolmetsch) comments, big inch wedges can be monsters in mild form.
I would suggest buying a copy of the Mopar Performance Engine Manual. Tons of good info.

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