Features Ford Thunderbolts Photos Wanted

Don Snyder owns it now.(been discussed on here) and it was assigned to Dick Brannan and Romy Hammes in 1964.(actually 10/63)

 

Great thread, keep it going.

 

Talk him into getting those body side moldings painted in the centers....that just looks weird.

 

That was the first thing I pointed out.He didnt know there was suppose to be anything there.I'll have to Pm you about the rest.

 

Thanks, Dennis.

Forgive me, all, if this is a taboo subject or bad thread etiquette, but can the list of 20 bodies that are gone be posted? I think I have approx 12-15 based on this thread, but would like to be sure that I have not mistaken an MIA car for a scrapped car… just in case I am passing through Oregon...

In tune with our regular program... Was it decided that this car was NOT one of the 100?
<O

 

I don't think it's a taboo subject, but it may certainly make owners of rebodied T-Bolts claiming to be original, unhappy. Why don't you post your list of 12-15 cars?

Re the photo you posted. That car started as a 289 K code Fairlane, not Fairlane 500. It ran B/FX at the 1964 Wnats and C/MP at the 1964 Summernats at Indy. Those classes basically mean running a 289 engine. It is not one of the 100 Fairlane 500's sold with a 427 High Riser by Ford.

Regards,
Dennis

 

A guy in the Charlotte or Raleigh area recently sold (I think that it sold) a C2AE-9430-A long tube exhaust manifold on craigslist. He said it was one of seven made, and was for the T-Bolt. (see http://raleigh.craigslist.org/pts/1636890060.html). Is this correct? I've never heard of the C2AE-9430-A exhaust manifold, and a google search didn't find anything. It is made different (open space between the tubes) than the C2AE-9430-B that I have (closed between the tubes).

Top two images are of the C2AE-9430-A exhaust manifold.

Bottom image is of the C2AE-9430-B exhaust manifold

 

T-bolts had tube headers. That is a 1962 part number.

 

Yes, that is a '62 model year designed part, but it could be used any model year after that. For instance, the C2AE-9430-B was used in 1963 and 1964 on the Galaxie and Mercury Maurader 406 and 427 cars. (But, it was not used on the 1962 models! ) The other side used C3AE-9431-D in both 1963 and 1964.

I do know that T-Bolts had tube headers, but this guy is claiming that seven were built with long tube cast manifolds. I guess to rephrase, I should ask:

"Were seven T-Bolts built with long tube cast manifolds instead of the tube headers? If so, were the part numbers used C2AE-9430-A and C3AE-941-D?"

I might generally just shrug off such a claim, but for the fact that I cannot find a reference to the C2AE-9430-A manifold anywhere. It seems that it is indeed a very rare part and has no application that I can find...and there are photos, so he does at least prove they exist!

By the way, these are NOT part numbers. I know that you know that, but I thought it should be clarified for others that may read this and get confused.

 

In simple terms, NO WAY. It's BS. Back in the 70's I looked at what would and would not fit, both in cast iron and 66+ Fairlane FE tube headers on a real car.

BTW, there were different versions of the long branch cast iron manifolds, the differences were how the tubes were layed out. I have a set of both styles for my 62/63 Lightweight Galaxie. Also according to the engineering drawings that I looked at for C2AE-9430 Manifold (9428 is the Manifold Assembly - Exhaust Right Hand) they went all the way up to a -J suffix.

Regards,
Dennis

 

From another thread here

 

Just like Dennis said, it's BS.....

People make all kinds of claims about certain parts being for a T-bolt that just isn't true. Just do a search on ebay for Ford Thunderbolt and you'll see.
Have you ever tried to put a set of headers on a T-bolt? If you have you would know these won't fit...

 

Quoted from the Craigslist ad:

After reading the ad a couple times (or trying to read it) I think the guy was actually attempting to say that there were 7 sets of these manifolds made, not 7 Thunderbolts made with these manifolds, but I highly doubt that statement as well.

Let's see..... There isn't one coherent sentence in the entire ad but he does have another "pare" to sell. That alone might give good cause to question the authenticity of his information. Just sayin'.....


Deron

 

Which is why I asked the question...trying to get to the truth.

 

That other "pare" is a set of the standard '63/'64 427 manifolds, with the ordinary engineering numbers. It is a very badly written ad.

 

Dennis,

The only ones that I've ever seen are the common B suffix. (I have seen the C5AE versions.) Could it be that those other versions (suffix A and C through J) were not used on production cars, but were available through the parts program? Or maybe they were for special applications (other than the full size Ford and Mercs), such as the Cobra and the F100 427 pickup, or planned applications that never came to be?

 

More than one version was made, because I have them. (I am not talking C5AE's) The suffixes include both short and long branch. Some of the manifolds that appear the same, may have slightly different dimensions or tolerances, OR they may be identical and yet still have different part numbers assigned. Perhaps some may have had differences with the choke heat tube outlet, as 4V cars did not have a reversed carb. I did not examine and compare every feature on the drawings.

Regards,
Dennis

 

Regarding the exhaust manifold discussion, while this does not concern Thunderbolts directly, I will use the example to apply to high performance Fords.

Being that I have always lived in Louisville, where Galaxies were built for many years, I am well versed on what the cars built here looked like when they are taken apart for restoration. In 1983 I bought a '64 427 R-code Galaxie that was built in New Jersey at the Mahwah plant. There were several parts on that car that differed somewhat in appearance from what I was used to seeing on the Louisville built Galaxies. Inquiring about these discrepencies I found out that Ford used many different suppliers around the country. It must be remembered that the plants where cars are built are simply assembly plants. The main criteria for outside contractors that supplied parts to an assembly plant was that the part had to fit.

While this fact does not address the suffix code on the exhaust manifolds in question, it could possible explain differences in appearance when comparing manifolds. Items supplied by an outside contractor from one part of the country may differ in appearance from the same item supplied on the other side of the country, but all the parts fit.

Also, the C2 casting number on the manifold shown came from the fact that in late 1962, Ford switched from the shorty exhaust "headers" to the long ones on the 406 '63 Galaxies. That was prior to the introduction of the 427 in the '63 1/2 Galaxies.

Kentuckian

 

Thanks Dennis. I appreciate the “shot-across-the-bow”. I also, appreciate the PM’s that were sent to me with words of enlightenment. I had made an assumption that the phrases, “scrapped” and “the car is gone” meant more than the original body was gone, but I think I now understand that this not necessarily means the VIN is gone. I do not want to reopen the debate nor do I want to offend the owners of rebodied cars and/or clones. There is some beautiful work being done out there and I will likely be a clone owner. The discussion earlier regarding values of certain cars given their condition and heritage gave me the information that was most pressing about what value a car could have given the quantity and/or quality of original pieces with or without an original T-Bolt VIN code.

I instead have a clarification question regarding terminology. “Recreation”, is that a “Rebody” or “Clone” or something else??? <O
<O
Back in the spirit of the thread… I think someone had mentioned earlier that these 2 cars were originally T-Bolts, could I be reminded which Dealers did they start life with? Thanks Much!<O

 

Just a quick question regarding the headers.This set on the McMillan T-Bolt look like DST originals.They look heavy to me.As the T-Bolts transitioned into A/FX classes,10 inch slicks and other slight mods.Were the headers changed out for lighter or better designs.Escpecially when Straight axle mods came to be.I would assume that an original set would be next to impossible to find.

 

To add, since engines were hot tested back then, the exhaust manifolds were installed at the engine plant, which would of been Dearborn (DEP) for the FE series. The manifolds were also manufactured by E&F Division, and most likely were cast at Dearborn Iron Foundry (DIF).

The switch from short to long branch exhaust manifolds in production were very late in Nov. 1962. This was due non availability of the clutch linkage.

I had a 1963 406 Galaxie XL built around Sept 62, it had the short manifolds.

There were various reasons why Ford released many part numbers (different suffixes) for a particular component, and in some cases the components appeared identical.

Regards,
Dennis

 

I don't think these are original DST headers, and here is why. First, I sold a set of 2 1/8" custom race headers to the former owner of this car back in the early 80's, as he did not have a set. Obviously, these are not them. I along with a couple other individuals have really studied the original DST headers, and although these look period correct, have too many differences. The original headers did not have collector flanges, in addition they all had balance tubes as the cars originally were equipped with a single exhaust. In addition, the location of the primary tube flanges are not far enough down on the tube.

Back in 1964 a number of aftermarket header manufacturers built headers for T-Bolts, Dougs, Stahl, Belanger, etc ... . In addition, later on a number of individuals repoped headers for T-Bolts.

As time went on a majority of the original cars, the original exhaust components dissapeared. Part of that may had to do with going from 1 7/8" to 2" - 2 1/4" primary tubes for a High Riser engine to make more power.

Regards,
Dennis

 

I believe Recreation and Clone are one and the same, I recall this was discussed in a previous issue of the FCA Fairlaner magazine. Rebody is just that, replacement of the original body.

Re the two photos, the white car is the former Courtesy Ford (CO) Rick Hearn car. The burgundy car is a clone.

Regards,
Dennis

 

The first time that I recall hearing the term "recreation" used to any degree was a few years ago during the Speed Channel broadcast of the Barrett-Jackson auction. Several years ago there were a number of Hemi Cuda clones bringing big bucks, even more than real cars were bringing just a few years before, and the announcers acted almost like the word "clone" was some kind of an insult so they started using the term "recreation". A polite, politically correct way of saying that the car wasn't real.....


Deron

 

Dennis appears to have thoughts and knowledge regarding authentic cars and rebodied/retagged cars, and not a lot of interest in having this thread blow up.

I'd build a tribute car right now if my Merc was done.

 

Yep...I'm sure he doesn't want this thread to wander off into an endless banter over recreations, clones, tributes and whatever else they call fakes this year. The topic here is Thunderbolt pics....anybody got any?

 

This is an internet find. Here's the intro to it:

These attached photos and all the rest, were taken at the Charlestown Navel Air Station dragstrip in
Charlestown, Rhode Island. I took these with my Kodak Brownie camera when I
was 13 years old, so please forgive the quality of the images.
Steve Gould
Colorado Springs, Colorado
USA

 

A couple others

 

Some Leal pics