ok kids...in genuine celuloid! (i have no clue as to the music...just use the mute ****on): "The Speed Kings" (Santa Monica GP, 1912)
Higginson's Vauxhall 30/98 prototype ( a car built to his private commission specificly for Shelsley Walsh and later put into production) making best time of day in 1913 The scene is very little changed today, some 97 years later ; same barns, same hedgeline, same trees(a bit shorter then) ... . .
Colonel Pope who ran the empire produced Pope-Hartford, the Pope-Toledo in Ohio along with the Columbia. In addition Pope motorcycles and Columbia bicycles and maybe something else I have forgotten about. He spread things out a little to much and other than the bicycles continuing it was mostly all over by around 1913-14.
Somewhere I read he was bankrupt in 1907 so it was probably bankers who kept the empire going, here's an interesting site http://www.autopasion18.com/HISTORIA-POPE-TOLEDO.htm I edited the above, thanks for another great photo and history lesson.
HG, you are correct that Durant drove the car along with Milton and Sarles from 1920-1922. It is a great piece and Bill is truly a craftsman and his work ethic at his age is incredible. I have referred to the car as the Baby Chevrolet as it was called early on but it was also known as the Durant Special. Cliff Durant had called it a Chevrolet as he had his earlier 300 inch cars but nicknamed it Baby I suppose for one of several reasons. When Cliff's dad resigned as president of GM in November of 1920 then they painted out the Chevrolet name and when Durant Motors was formed in January of 1921 the name was changed to Durant Special and Durant-Miller Special. Bill expects to have the car done for the Miller Meet which should be a real treat.-Jim
Interesting photo from 1907 in Baltimore, Maryland on Cathedral St., young men with what appears to be an early racing car.
Pope started out with Columbia bicycles. There were a whole collection of brands, each at a different price point (cheapest at the top on down). Pope Tribune Pope Hartford Pope Toledo Columbia then, there was Pope Waverly, which was the electric car and Pope motorcycles. It was one of the earliest multi make conglomerates in the automotive world.
The recent information provided by FB of the Miller carburetor had me thinking of the Duesenberg that Jimmy Murphy drove to a well deserved win at the 1921 GP de l'ACF at Mans. Many different stories have been told over the years describing the reasons for the American's victory, from the excellent balance the car displayed under brakes to the Oldfield-Firestone tires, some were using the inferior Dunlop brand and others were running with the very sturdy Pirelli brand. If one was a hardened or patriotic frenchman, the blame would be put squarely on the shoulder's of Ralph De Palma for not doing enough with the Ballot and then there is the decision by many teams including Duesenberg to install the Claudel carburetor after the French company offered incentives to the drivers to use their brand. Murphy was the only Duesy driver not to do so, instead choosing to stay with the trusty Miller. So, was it a simple decision of carburetor choice or was it a combination of many things? The one thing that is not discussed in detail is the driving job by the winner. Is it possible that Murphy was the more superior driver. Certainly he was the more hungrier.
Thanks, Jim, indeed I missed the baroness's Packard! I also forgot a couple of Duesenbergs, one a 1930 two-man car that went to Romania in 1932 and had a somewhat obscure career there. And one of the late twenties single seaters was sold to Carlo Trossi in Italy in 1933, I believe. Both apparently had Skinny Clemons-designed 4.5-litre engines, and both are still in Europe as far as I know.
Finally dug up a few things on the Germain, a manufacturer starting out by building Daimlers for Belgium, later Panhard-Lev***ors. In 1902, a 20 hp Light Car and a 30 hp (4.8 litres) Big Car raced in Belgium, and a year later the first production car was built. The same year, a 40 hp (9.9 litres) Germain finished 6th at Bastogne, beating the highly regarded Pipe as first "homemade" car. But Pipe went on to become a modestly successful marque in racing, while Germain lingered on in obscurity. For the 1907 GP, Germain built a lightweight 4-cylinder T-head with cardan drive, and sources indeed differ as to its size. Most likely, it was a 4.3-litre (110*114), but I've seen 3.6 (102*110) and 5.1 (112*130) as well. In any case, the car was not compe***ive inspite of being the only one in the field weighing less than a ton (900 kg), and the three cars entered finished 14th, 15th and 17th out of seventeen finishers. They tried again the following year with a big chain-drive 12.4 or 12.8-litre T-head, but were only slightly more successful (10th - 22nd - ret), and that was that. There were no more race entries, and the company disappeared during WW1.
Last I heard of the Romanian Duesy it was still in a technical museum there, in a distinctly sorry state. The ex-Trossi car is now in the Brooklands Museum, where it's being restored. Not sure who that is in the ****pit, but the two men standing behind the car are **** Seaman and Whitney Straight.
Not sure about the carburettor situation without looking things up, but Murphy certainly was the bees knees as a driver - in many ways, he was the Jim Clark of the twenties: he was very smooth with his equipment, rarely made mistakes and was extremely fast. His record speaks for himself: in 54 race entries I have for him, he failed to finish only seven times, racking up 17 wins, 17 other top 3 finishes and only twice finishing outside the top 6!
Thanks, Richard! Looking at it again, the car looks quite different from the twenties single seaters, apparently it was completely rebuilt on one of the old frames.
I agree that Murphy won because of his skill and determination. As to the carburetor theories I do not think it helped him. I have had a lot of experience with Miller racing carbs including on a 16 valve Duesenberg four that I take care of. They are good carbs but really were not meant for accelerating and constant speed changes. They are good at what they were designed for oval tracks. If I remember correctly I have even read about this I believe in Dee's book. Can anyone post some Claudel carb photos or drawings we could study? Photos of Murphy and his rival Milton on the beach. Read up on what happened after Murphy took Miltons car out for testing and I think set a record on the beach while Milton was in Cuba or on the way back. That is Miltons car in the second and forth photo. The third photo also shows one and maybe two Duesenbergs also on the beach. The left hand of the two middle cars is a Duesenberg and I think the right hand one maybe one also. Can anyone ID the cars in this photo positively? The last two photos are of a Miller carb that when I get a chance I will show the inner workings of. The jet bar is attached to the bronze casting you can see in the second photo. It goes into the carb throat right under the barrel and has six or seven jets that screw into the top of it. The more the hole in the barrel opens up the more jets get uncovered.
having put a ton of miles on a Miller/Master, I can attest that the concept of throttle change really did not enter in the equation. It was more of how much gas can we get in there. The carbs are great at WOT, foot to the floor. The carb i ran on the T was way to big, it would bog down and foul plugs like nobodys business around town. But at about 65 it would really go all the way to about 80. They also like to wash the rings away too...
Thanks Michael. There is a small mention in a Panhard et Lev***or book i have but nothing to write home about. The Daimler info is new to me, i might have to follow that up in the future. It seems nobody can agree on the correct engine displacement in it's last race. The 4.3 and the 5.1 litre engines sounds about right, with the former being used in the '07 GP according to every listing. I don't know why i choose to look into obscure marques, more often than not it's just a big waste of time. Thanks again.
Some photos of the Duesenbergs early cars. The first photo is Fred with his racing Marion about 1905. With this car he defeated Jed Newkirk in a five mile race by fifty feet. The second photo is The Mason racing car that Fred designed and raced while he was working for the Mason Co. whose car he also designed and built. He won three races with this car in Milwaukee. Third photo is a two cylinder Mason engine. The forth photo is of a Maytag which was the next car that Fred designed for the Maytag Co. In this car we can see the double drop frame that became the same design used in the early four cylinder racing cars which were equipped with an eight valve walking beam engine instead of this Excelsior engine which was used in the standard cars. More photos of the early walking beam racing cars to follow.
From what i have read about the '21 GP, Jimmy Murphy won the race in alot of pain. He crashed in practice when the brakes locked up sending him and fellow Duesenberg driver Inghilbert into a ditch causing injuries to both, more so to Inghlibert who was to drive one of the four Duesenberg's in the race but he never did recover leaving three cars to front for the start. Murphy himself broke a rib and spent time in hospital. Reports seem to differ as to whether Murphy was released or whether he escaped from his bed on the day of the race. In his book, Griff Borgeson mentions the latter saying he was bandaged from his hips to armpits. There is also an article somewhere talking about an accident Murphy had, burning his hand before he left for France. When you put all of this into perspective, it certainly was a great drive. As to the carburetor story, Borgeson speaks about the trouble some of the drivers were experiencing with the Claudel carb, most notably was the rubbish entering the rotary throttle valve forcing some to stop and rectify the problem, losing valuable time. Hopefully Buildy can elaborate on this a little further as he has the Jimmy Murphy book. Go to this link for extensive info about the Claudel carburetor. It's worth it. www.scribd.com/doc/26853773/Claudel-Hobson-Carburettor
a carb that i would really like to run, if I could ever find one... Juhasz, who was an early race car driver designed and patented the below carb. It has a single barrel, with 3 sets of bores, that when rotated progresively uncover the jets. Walked past one years ago, still kick myself for it. the pdf is the patent, if anyone wants to upload a better copy.
Randy, About 10 years agoI bought a collection of Juhasz carbs at Hershey . 6 different types. Let me know if you want to check them out. Evans
Juhasz carbs, I had a matched pair many years ago, huge, barrel throttle, all br***, I've often wondered what they were on originally.
Quote Kurtis: [As to the carburetor story, Borgeson speaks about the trouble some of the drivers were experiencing with the Claudel carb, most notably was the rubbish entering the rotary throttle valve forcing some to stop and rectify the problem, losing valuable time. Hopefully Buildy can elaborate on this a little further as he has the Jimmy Murphy book. Now that you mention that Kurtis I do remember reading about it so perhaps he did not have have that trouble with the Miller. So as you mentioned it may have been an advantage for him. I have the Murphy book and I will take a look also. Interesting story about the others changing their carbs to Claudel's. They were offering the racers money to run their carbs so that may have been why they changed?
More early four cylinder Duesenberg walking beam racing cars. The first is George Buzan at Ascot in November 1916 #7 The second and third photos are of Ray Lampkin. #8 The forth is the Thurman Special a straight frame 16 valve at Ascot in February 1919. The fifth is Dave lewis also in a straight frame 16 valve car at Tacoma in 1918.
First photo Mason car with Duesenberg 8 valve Mort Robert's who won the 220 mile Pabst Blue Ribbon road race at Milwaukee on Oct 3, 1912 Second photo Wille Haupt at Indy 1913, Mason car Duesenberg 8 valve engine. Third photo Eddie O'Donnell 8 valve, Indy 1915 where he placed fifth. Forth photo O'Donnell and Murphy 1919 at Indy, 16 valve straight frame car out at 46 laps. In the records O'Donnell's car is listed as #10 and Milton's as #9. Fifth Photo a Crawford with a Duesenberg engine, Billy Chandler Indy 1916. There were two other 16 valve Crawford's, Two finished in 8th. and 9th. While D'Alene finished 2nd in his Duesenberg to Dario Resta. Sixth photo the Sebring Car with Duesenberg engine, Joe Cooper Indy 1915. He was running well at the 3/4 mark when a wheel collapsed and but him out of the race.
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