i just went on there site and on the front page they had the warning about how there stuff will be decertified april 27th.i cant believe that bill simpson would do some bullshit like this!!luckely last year i had to buy new belts and i ended up buying some rci ones that they say they will recert.for free.then when i get them in the box it says to send them back with a check for i think $20.00 and they will put new tags on them.so it will cost me over $30.00 in shipping and there fee.then wait for 4-6 weeks to get them back.what a joke!!
It's Bill Simpsons company and he's responsible for the actions of his employees. If this was done behind his back, and knowing the intregrity of this man and what he's gone through, than charges need to be brought up against this person. The company knows the rules they must follow to have their equipment certified properly. I hope this situation is resolved soon for the sake of everyone involved. This is the second incident with Impact Racing and something is amiss in their company.
Well said. I think people need to really take a step back and understand the seriousness of this. This isn't an isolated incident. Last year, the HANS company (manufactures the HANS head and neck restraint) caught Impact installing counterfeit offshore HANS anchors on the helmets. That's a direct and serious safety issue. I'm told that what started all of this is that a nostalgia drag racer had a fire about a year or so ago, and his supposedly SFI-20 suit shriveled (which should NOT happen). EVERY major safety manufacturer in the world registers and tests with SFI, and EVERY major safety manufacturer in the world abides by their agreement; i.e. you buy the patches and decals from SFI and install them. That's how SFI continues to fund safety research and certification efforts. I know of at least one manufacturer who gives the option of an SFI patch or not on its suits (Hinchman), and they upcharge $10 for putting it on. The actual suit specs don't change, but if you need the patch, it costs a little extra; if you don't, you save a ten-spot. This is the first and only time I've ever heard of SFI decertifying any manufacturer, period. What SFI is saying, in effect, is that Impact has broken trust so badly that there's no repairing the relationship. Now, I know there are still people who believe the sun shines out of Bill Simpson's ass, but if he was counterfeiting patches (and HANS anchors for that matter), he's a fucking crook. And a fucking crook is likely to counterfeit or cut corners in any area, including the core safety of his product. Oh, and Lew Hinchman was making firesuits when Bill Simpson was still getting his first pubes. So don't give me that "invented the industry" bullshit. Simpson contributed a TON to the industry, and he definitely THINKS he invented it, but in truth there are a lot of people and companies who can be credited with the safety industry today.
Listening to talk at meetings etc. it seems that one of the problems was the thread used was not fire resistant or fireproof. Its been fairly common knowledge for some time that there was a problem with Impact. Lots of rumors but for SFI to break with a manufacturer like that it has to be more than "not buying labels from them".
uh the difference between sfi certified diaper and non certified? $170 bucks. same diaper. the patch costs teh manufacturer 170 bucks. if that company is selling sfi patches for 10 bucks they are loosing there ass. or they are using counterfiets too. AND its the patches that are in question, not the safety of the equipment. Labels, not stitching, fireproofing of wear and tear. Just the patches. I think its all bullshit, someone is pissed off at another and unfortunatly thier pissing match is gonna cost a bunch of innocent folks $$$$. SFI has had in it for Impact from day one, and while I'm sure nobody is innocent in this deal, its all politics and bullshit.
I don't think SFI cert patches are 170.00 for everything or all your "mail order" speed shops couldn't sell certified harnesses for less than 100.00. Recertification is kind of a joke for belts/harnesses. You can buy a new set of economy belts for just a little more than recertification costs. Larry T
some things get certified cheaper than others, belts are cheaper than blower restraints etc. the point is if that patch only cost 10 bucks then there is no reason to have counterfiets.
I've used Simpson belts and helmets when Bill owned the company...and I always bought Hinchman suits because he made 'em fit my lardass... I always bought best icould afford. But I have a hunch this is more involved than just labels and thread... maybe Mr. Simpson saw the opportunity to make a little more $$$ buy buying off-shore (Chi-Com) materials for his products... materials that didn't meet the right standards. This is just a hunch... no facts. But who wouldn't doubt it? Speedy Bill does it with his parts... use your name and reputation to sell cheaper products... whether they are safe or not. We don't know that this is the case... but it wouldn't surprise me. When have you ever bought anything that's made in China that was better than the same thing made by your neighbors and friends right here in the good old USA? Heck we even export "Chinese" vegatables and rice to the Commies...
Horseshit. I keep hearing that claim from Simpson toadies, and nobody can come up with a reason for it. Why Impact? And the $170 patch - bullshit.
I, like many, have known Bill Simpson for many years. I can reluctantly believe he would do something shady to save money but I can not believe he would take any shortcuts to endanger his customers, many who are his close friends.
I've not seen any posting with this, so forgive me if it has already been covered, but why can't guys with the newly "decertified" equipment take them to someone who has the authority to inspect, make repairs, and "re- certify" the equipment?? I am learning about the process, and know of "new" companies coming into the safety market, quite a few offshore. I recently was dealing with D.O.T certifications of safety harnesses (did any of you know that you can receive a citation from law enforcement for not having a D.O.T. compliance tag on your race harness while operating it on the road here in California??), and these new companies do not use the same webbing, and materials as other better known manufacture's, but can this be accomplised in much the same manner???
impact was busted less than a year ago for installing cheap offshore attachments for hans devices on its helmets - they were not approved & would pull apart upon hard impact - simpson racing equipment is not connected to bill simpson or impact in any way since bill left simpson
I've always hated SFI... This is such bullshit. The product met certification through all of SFIs tests and since they don't buy the SFI tags through SFI all of the sudden they decertify it? Nice. Seems like Impact got tired of having to pay the piper. To me this is all about SFI seeing money going elsewhere and making Impact a scapegoat.
Then you don't understand the issue. All anyone has to go on with safety equipment is the quality of the manufacturer's word. Here's how it works. Let's say I were to start Racewriter's Racing Suits. Since SFI is the only independent testing lab in the USA, and is accepted as the industry standard, I would enter into their standard agreement. I would submit sample firesuits to them, which they would test and certify in accordance with their standards. THEN - I would agree, on paper, that I could advertise that my suits meet whichever spec that they meet, AND I would agree that every suit I produced under a given standard would be identical in makeup, and that it would be patched with the proper patch bought from SFI. SFI does not test every firesuit made; if they did, nobody would be able to wear one because they would all be burned. Instead, SFI tests an example, certifies that product specification, and then relies on the manufacturer to produce every suit of that model to the same spec. It involves a lot of trust between manufacturer and SFI. That trust has been broken. In essence, the only thing you have to say that "the suits were made to spec" is Impact's word, and we already know that their word isn't worth shit. Wouldn't you think that if there were some industry-wide dissatisfaction with SFI that other safety companies would quickly line up behind Impact and try to use this instance to get SFI to change their ways? Do you notice that this is NOT happening?
I do notice one entity totally controlling everything. That is what I have problems with. Its the tag... it has nothing to do with the quality of the product. It doesn't make the product better. In black and white I see this as such... Your products are safe for use in motorsports as long as you buy tags from us. If you have your own tags made up your product will not be certified. Seems like total control... seems like a dictatorship. Listen, I know why its done and the reasons for it, I just think its stupid. So if they buy tags from SFI and cheat on the materials in the belts that would be ok? Whether Impact cheated the system isn't my gripe. My the system is my gripe. *edit* And the reason all of the other safety companies aren't lining up behind Impact is because Impact has basically just put themselves out of business. All SFI has to do is say "RCI is decertified or RJS is decertified and that's it. Its over for them."
Fine, then don't get SFI certified and advertise as such. It's their rules, no one is forcing anyone to follow them UNLESS you want SFI certification. The right way to go about changing this would be for Impact to contact all the other SFI companies and put a case together on why they should not have to buy labels from them and work it out BEFORE just doing it. But Impact wanted to cut corners, save money, and cheat their way through it. It's black and white, you're right.
Why not? If I need a SFI label to pass Tech, and to go Racing, Then I expect the item that I pay for because it has one, to acctualy have one.
Go to www.sfifoundation.org and read the updates over the last two years. That might enlighten a bit. This is not a new or one-time issue, nor is it limited to the labels.
Racewriter, does SFI actually test or do they just make the standards by which helmets and suits are tested? I read an article years ago about race helmets. It said at that time that only the manufacturers tested their products to SFI standards. The magazine{ I forget which one} tested several differant helmets and most failed. Just wondering how it's done now.
I've never met Mr. Simpson, but I have read the articles and seen the movies. He was one of the innovators in the safety field, and I was dismayed with the way he got thrown under the bus with the Daytona episode. However, he chose to start a new company and if the facts bear out SFI's case, Impact has played fast and loose several times now. That is beyond what I'm willing to accept from any company. Suits http://www.insidetopalcohol.com/showthread.php?t=22813 HANS clips http://www.dragracingsafety.com/articles/article-4.html Now this. I have a race car that has sat long enough that it will need all new stuff. At this point, I would never purchase anything from a company with this type of history.
SFI doesn't control anything. They are a safety standards organisztion and various race organizations use them for their racing safety standards. Like Underwriters laboratory and various other companies that set safety standards. They set standards and if you want to use them fine. If you don't equally fine. I race with the SCTA. The use SFI standards for firesuits, seatbets etc. Why do they do that? They're not forced to do it. They do it because they like SFI standards. The SCTA sets standards for roll cage design, tubing material and thickness, firebottles, bellhousings, etc. SFI saves them having to figure out how safe a firesuit shoud be. Or how good a five point harness shoud be. If I buy a firesuit that has an SFI tag on it I know its up to their standards. I don't want a firesuit that has an FAKE SFI tag on it. Do you want to race with tires that have a 200 mph rating but are fake and will explode at 120 mph? Bitch all you want. Show up at El Mirage or Bonneville with a non SFI firesuit and tell me how many runs you get.
This is exactly what I'm talking about... Sure they don't control anything... like you said, show up to ANY racetrack and try to run without an SFI suit, belts, etc... You cant. You NEED the SFI certification on safety equipment in order to run, therefore you need to buy components from someone with the SFI certification... So when you shop for your stuff you obviously need to buy them from someone who has current SFI status. Impact has basically been run out of business because of this. Yes, I agree they did it to themselves. That's not my point... But my arguement stands. Agreement or contracts aside... how do safety components go from being acceptable to unacceptable based on where a damn sticker comes from? The sticker isn't the issue. As long as a component passes SFI tests it should be usable. Period. What's stopping, say, RJS from buying SFI tags right from SFI, yet skimping on materials in their products to save money? (after the product is passed by SFI of course) Its cheating just like Impact was caught doing, yet they have an "official" sticker on unsafe product... rather than having a fake stickers on a certified part. To me this is all about SFI not getting money from Impact and making an example out of them.
SFI has various testing facilities and serves as an independent testing and certification lab. Helmets are tested by a different facility, which is the Snell Foundation.
You can lead a horse to water. If he turns around and sticks his ass in it, it's pretty much a waste of time.
Very well put. As stated, this same type of behavior in avaition happens every now and then and is not tolerated.
Bitch at the organisations that use SFI standards. SFI doesn't force them to use their standards. But race organisations feel their standards are high enough for the safety of their racers. Again, come on out to El Mirage or Bonneville. I'll pay money to see you try and convince a tech inspector that your firesuit may not have an SFI tag on it but it did pass their standards. The SCTA has a set design for the rollcage. Don't follow it and you don't run. They have minimum wall thickness standards. No, they won't take your word on your wall thickness. They have a sonic tester. I have a DVD of drag racing at Santa Ana in the eary 50s. They were the run what you brung days. Guy in dragsters with no roll bars. One shot shows a guy dragging a 650 Triumph. T shirt, jeans and U.S. Keds and a helmet. Those days are long gone and they aren't coming back. The SCTA lost a lot of racers in the early days. They aren't about to repeat those days.
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