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Paint, What's the difference?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 28 chevy, Mar 30, 2010.

  1. hot rust
    Joined: Sep 18, 2007
    Posts: 777

    hot rust
    Member

    after using dupont products since '84, i've found three flaws with dupont's 2nd line, nason paint. the base is cheaper but also it doesnt have as much" body" or pigments in it as the chromabase does therefore at a cheaper cost you have to use more material to cover, so is it any cheaper? in a shop environment NO.2nd the color match on nason is minimal at best and 3rd the clear lays on fantastic, buffs easy.and achieves a satisfactory gloss, but!!!! it isn't durable as your high end clears. i've used it on cheaper car lot jobs and find that it doesnt hold up as well, doesn't hold it's gloss and i've noticed that even using multiple coats it is very susceptable to rock and or debris chips ( this is after it's color sanded and buffed). i've used the nason base with regular dupont clears and have had really good results,but i also reduced the nason base with dupont basemaker instead or the reducer for the nason which probably helped alot. this is just my experiences with it since it came out. hope this helps......hot rust
     
  2. pimpin paint
    Joined: May 31, 2005
    Posts: 4,937

    pimpin paint
    Member
    from so cal

    Hey skull, go easy on my sister, we're tryin' to get her to turn over a new leaf!


    " Beware The Irrational However Seductive "
     
  3. 28 chevy
    Joined: Mar 5, 2006
    Posts: 512

    28 chevy
    Member
    from NE Pa

    lots a good comments. went to the paint store today, had them scan what I had and it came out too pink. not too bad at 8 bucks for a pint of acrylic enamel (yep, Nason). will shoot it soon and see if it looks any different. Want an orange tint in it.
    They also said a different code came up for basecoat so I might have them mix that. NOT 8 BUCKS THOUGH!
    will keep you posted
     
  4. skullhat
    Joined: May 30, 2009
    Posts: 892

    skullhat
    Member



    only if you lay off mine, lol:eek:
     
  5. skullhat
    Joined: May 30, 2009
    Posts: 892

    skullhat
    Member



    orange for 8 bucks, thats sure a great price, lol, havent seen that since the 70's
     
  6. Chairmnofthboard
    Joined: Mar 23, 2010
    Posts: 42

    Chairmnofthboard
    Member
    from So Cal

    I've used Nason before. Worked fine.

    My friend used Omni (black) and it wasn't that pure of a black, it was brownish.

    I've used PPG DBC, Chromobase, Nason, Sherwin, Limco and a few single stages. We use Valspar right now. It's pretty good paint for the money.
     
  7. Get some House of Kolor! Cooler colors in my opinion. Think its made by valspar.
     
  8. pimpin paint
    Joined: May 31, 2005
    Posts: 4,937

    pimpin paint
    Member
    from so cal

    Hey,

    Eight bucks a pint for orange,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,try thirty five bucks a gallon for red circa 1973!
     
  9. damnfingers
    Joined: Sep 22, 2006
    Posts: 1,287

    damnfingers
    Member

    Painted my avatar with Nason...the paint always gets good comments even though it was done at home in the driveway.
     
  10. philly the greek
    Joined: Feb 15, 2009
    Posts: 1,863

    philly the greek
    Member
    from so . cal.

    After spending lots of hours block sanding and all the other prep jobs required in a quality paint job , why would you use second rate materials for the color coat(s) ? Makes no sense to me !
     
  11. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 10,390

    theHIGHLANDER
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    yeah man she gets around!

    I have it in LP. Yes indeed one of those things that has sex appeal in it's purest form.
     
  12. Dads-53
    Joined: Sep 8, 2006
    Posts: 171

    Dads-53
    Member

    Paint is not paint, your talking about several different types of paint. And a good painter can make each look good. You get what you pay for, if Nason ( acrylic enamel) was the same quality as a (acrylic urathane) it would be priced the same. The reason the base coats shoot different is one is enamel and one is polyester. two different worlds. Would you expect a $100 paint to be as good as $500 paint ? You get what you pay for.
     
  13. 29nash
    Joined: Nov 6, 2008
    Posts: 4,542

    29nash
    BANNED
    from colorado

    Maybe he mixed it wrong.
    I've used Omni Black and Omni Metallic Platinum, in the past couple of years. Excellent application, the Black is Black and the best thing is it is one-step, no need to buff(put on right), and it was only $120 a gallon for the metallic, less than a hundred for the black.

    $500 paint? Maybe for something exotic, camelion, or such, but not for straight colors in Acrylic Enamel.
     
  14. 5window
    Joined: Jan 29, 2005
    Posts: 9,653

    5window
    Member

    Generally true, but not always and not so much anymore. While I don't know about paint, many times you are paying for the Name and Reputation. Sometimes the product is produced on one assemble line and different labels with different prices are put on the cans according to the orders. Another example would be Bayer Aspirin vs Walmart aspirin. They have the same amount of medication,the same bioavailability, the same dosing, the same side-effects. Because, by law, generics have to be exact copies of the named medication. But they aren't priced the same. Bayer is trading on its name.
     
  15. flynbrian48
    Joined: Mar 10, 2008
    Posts: 8,459

    flynbrian48
    Member

    $500 paint? Maybe for something exotic, camelion, or such, but not for straight colors in Acrylic Enamel.[/QUOTE]

    You aren't painting very much, are you? :D I too wish paint cost what it did 30 years ago too, but it doesn't. I just paid $200 for a QUART of color ONLY to for my '06 Milan to do the hood, bumper cover and a little touch up on the front fenders. It's nothing exotic, just metallic burgandy, not even a premium color. I could have "saved" 50 bucks by buying a second line paint, but you get what you pay for, and I want this to be right.

    Sometimes a straight color acrylic in a cheap paint will get the job done, sometimes not. It costs what it costs.
     

  16. I would venture to say that it was mixed right. Having worked for a PPG distributor for over 5 years, one thing I learned is that Omni black is not black black. It always has a brownish tint to it due to how much binder in it. You would be surprised how little toner is in Omni, and how much of the binder (read mixing clear) is in it. I feel certain that Nason is the same for DuPont.
     
  17. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 10,390

    theHIGHLANDER
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You aren't painting very much, are you? :D I too wish paint cost what it did 30 years ago too, but it doesn't. I just paid $200 for a QUART of color ONLY to for my '06 Milan to do the hood, bumper cover and a little touch up on the front fenders. It's nothing exotic, just metallic burgandy, not even a premium color.
    [/QUOTE]

    DING DING DING DING!!! We have another winner folks!

    For a short time I was having my customers go buy their shit direct cuz I got sick of trying to convince em I wasn't taking advantage of them on pricing.

    Why is paint so expensive these days? I got 2 words for ya:

    PETROLEUM DISTLLATES
     
  18. SinisterCustom
    Joined: Feb 18, 2004
    Posts: 8,277

    SinisterCustom
    Member

    I always have the guy I'm painting for pay in advance for paint, or have them buy it themselves.....'cause yeah, most guys have no clue how much paint is these days.
    White is usually the cheapest color, and the last time I went to buy a pint it was > $80 for PPG acrylic enamal. :eek: So I got Omni for $20 something...haha.
     
  19. mopargnome
    Joined: Jan 14, 2010
    Posts: 48

    mopargnome
    Member

    I have painted alot of stuff over the years and used a wide variety of materials. Omni black has a distinct brown shade to it. I take my customers to the paint store to purchase paint so they can see the cost. The PPG clear I like to use is $285 a gallon kit. I priced a PPG custom color the other day, $1200 a gallon, and thats just a purple basecoat. There is a time and place for cheaper paint as well as for expensive paint. One of the reasons I have never painted my own stuff is the cost, that and the fact I'm always doing a car for someone else.
     
  20. skullhat
    Joined: May 30, 2009
    Posts: 892

    skullhat
    Member



    he didnt mix it wrong.....there is a distinct color difference between omni-shopline and the higher end ppg blacks

    i have to go out of town to get the good black, but i cant use the new stuff to touch up or repair older jobs ive done, as the brown tone shows up in the cheaper blacks just as the poster mentions.

    skull
     
  21. skullhat
    Joined: May 30, 2009
    Posts: 892

    skullhat
    Member



    i frequently have the customer get the materials as well, its easier to sell the job when you ssay 7000 for labor, you buy the shit, that to say 10 large, they think you are hoseing them.

    i tell them that the paint gonna cost around 3 grand and they think you are full of shit till they hit the paint store........then i just agree, ya they fucked ya,lol


    skull
     
  22. I'd like to see a cost analysis on the raw materials that go into automotive and industrial paint/coatings. I can not fathom that any of them could be so expensive. I suspect the industry is engaged in price-fixing.
     
  23. Cole Auto
    Joined: Mar 26, 2008
    Posts: 68

    Cole Auto
    Member
    from SoCal

    Nason and any other cheap paint is fine for cars that are going to be waxed regularly and sit in a garage. However, like Highlander said, the difference between a $100 gallon clear and a $300 gallon clear like a glasurit or Sikkens is the UV protection. I've had first hand experience with Nason going bad after 2 or 3 years of exposure to the elements. Another difference in the paints is the color match, pearls and metallics. The cheaper paints use fewer toners in the system so they are not able to give the vibrant colors of the higher end paints. I guess it depends on the car and the results you are looking for but I would go with the better materials. For a few hundred dollars more you will be ahead in the long run.
     
  24. Oil Base is SHAKEN NOT STIRRED !!! >>>>.
     
  25. abone1930
    Joined: Jan 16, 2006
    Posts: 1,324

    abone1930
    Member

    Has anybody tried Summit brand of paint, or Eastwoods brand? Who make them?
     
  26. ZRX61
    Joined: Jul 10, 2006
    Posts: 175

    ZRX61
    Member
    from The AV

    Ditto, PPG spoken here ;)
     
  27. As a general rule for industry:

    The raw materials may not be that expensive. The additional process steps, if any, and the additional equipment and infrastructure needed for those process steps, may make the difference. In addition, it may be the case that the low-end, relatively simple-to-produce chemical or paint is made elsewhere and the more technically involved process is done in this country, or at least the Western hemisphere. Dunno the particulars for the paint industry, but in other areas, there is usually more to the story than what appears at first glance.

    Or, they may be involved in price fixing. :D
     
  28. SinisterCustom
    Joined: Feb 18, 2004
    Posts: 8,277

    SinisterCustom
    Member

    That and the ever increasing EPA "influence" on this stuff....
     
  29. maniac
    Joined: Jul 11, 2005
    Posts: 539

    maniac
    Member



    I think I can shorten that to 3 letters


    EPA..........
     
  30. 29nash
    Joined: Nov 6, 2008
    Posts: 4,542

    29nash
    BANNED
    from colorado

    You are quoting a price. You paid too much. Here's an invoice for black Omni I did a car with in '08. paint invoice.jpg


    29nash; $500 paint? Maybe for something exotic, camelion, or such, but not for straight colors in Acrylic Enamel.
    Quote: Originally Posted by flynbrian48
    You aren't painting very much, are you? I too wish paint cost what it did 30 years ago too, but it doesn't. I just paid $200 for a QUART of color ONLY ............................[/QUOTE]
    .
    I paint enough to know how much it costs me, sonny. Right now, today I can get Omni, BLACK, and other subtle colors mixed as I wait for $104(Retail) a gallon. Reds are about $175(Retail) a gallon.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2010

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