This car looks to be from the UK or Europe, can anyone identify it? The Radiator shell looks similar to a 1912 Peugeot and the exhaust is in the right place and the frame and spring arrangement are the same. Can any of you sleuths come up with a positive ID for it? The smooth pavement might make it be a modern photo?
I only have Bert Dingley in the #22 in the 1910 Vanderbilt Cup at Long Island while the first photo in T-Head's post shows a rather used car. Could it be one of the three P-Hs entered in the 1911 Indy.
T-head`s photo on the Rt Looks like Indy to me,as well as his photo on the Lt. Kurtis great shot on the right showing the crews down IN the pits.
Nope - but those all seem to be connected to the 1900 Long Island race, so it's probably a case of people copying each other from one originally incorrect source. And there are far more pages which have the correct name! The New York Times report of that race is quite fun, BTW! Particularly the last sentence!
Buildy & Kurtis; I had the same thoughts about Indy, I will look later at some photos of the stands. I noticed that the location of the speedo cables are different on my two photos and the cable is in the same exact spot on both #22 photos so it maybe the same car. T-H
I would say now that we defiantly can say this is Indy based on these to photos of the stands..... The third photo shows grandstand three directly across from the pits, note the price for these better seats $2.00. So I think we can now safely say this is Indy 1911. I would think, it was when the car arrived at the speedway before the race based on the spare tire for driving there. I do not think they used them in the race. The car is also not lettered which leads me to this guess also.
David, I found a May 6th NYT article with a very short story of the Pope-Hartford team leaving that day for the Indianapolis Speedway Sweepstakes. It says the following: The trip will be made by road. Louis Disbrow will drive one of the Vanderbilt Cup cars, which he will use part of the time as a practice car at the speedway. Whalen and W. Emil Holt, President of the Pope-Hartford Company, will accompany Disbrow over the route with another racing car. Hope this helps.
Kurtis.....sounds like we have it all figured out. Your findings prove my earlier thought about the spare. They were driven to the track a lot back then and made appearances along the way. Look at the extra grandstand photo above.
More of the show man, the Benz and his most unusual National Which I think the whole drive train was lowered in the chassis. The seat in the above Elgin wreck looks like a T-head Mercer, but some of the other parts of the car are not like the hubcaps and the hood is louvered. But who knows it maybe, can anyone identifiy it by the #11 on the tank?
OT Any feedback on 'Ted Miller'? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5081723#post5081723
I thought about that too. Very similar looking car. Pics below at Elgin. Buck with Sam Jacobs. Note the tacho, something that was missing on Dingley's car in 1910. Is this the Mercer driven by Spencer Wishart that crashed and killed him and mechanic Jack Jenter at Elgin, 1914?
Any Chance the #11 is the Cino that wrecked in 1911? 9 X John Raimey #11 Cino Cino Cino 7 Wrecked Kane County Trophy Race Elgin Road Race Course 8.47 Mile Road Course 20 Laps/169.46 Miles August 25, 1911 Finish Start Driver Car # Sponsor/Name Chassis Engine Laps Status Points 1 X Hughie Hughes 15 Mercer Mercer Mercer 20 2:37:21.52 64.614 300* 2 X William Barnes 12 Mercer Mercer Mercer 20 2:39:55.47 63.578 160* 3 X Billy Pearce 20 Colby Colby Colby 20 2:46:11.70 61.179 90* 4 X John Jenkins 24 Cole Cole Cole 20 2:48:19.30 60.406 50* 5 X Alvin Maisonville 14 Corbin Corbin Corbin 20 2:57:12.65 57.376 30* 6 X Gaston Morris 21 Cole Cole Cole 20 2:57:37.83 57.240 20* 7 X Gus Monckmeir 27 Staver-Chicago Staver-Chicago Staver-Chicago 20 2:58:16.17 57.035 15* 8 X M. Armstrong 22 Colby Colby Colby 14 Out 9 X John Raimey 11 Cino Cino Cino 7 Wrecked 10 X Fred Robillard 25 Staver-Chicago Staver-Chicago Staver-Chicago 7 Wrecked 11 X Harry Ogren 18 Colby Colby Colby 5 Piston froze -- -- Joe Nikrent 16 Staver-Chicago Staver-Chicago Staver-Chicago -- DNS, engine -- -- Andy Burt 11 Cino Cino Cino -- Raced by Raimey -- -- John Raimey 26 Cino Cino Cino -- Wrecked practice -- -- Ralph Ireland 25 Staver-Chicago Staver-Chicago Staver-Chicago -- Wrecked practice - fatal -- -- Frank Gelnaw X Falcar Falcar Falcar -- Did not arrive -- -- Arthur Greiner X Falcar Falcar Falcar -- Did not arrive -- -- Billy Pearce X Falcar Falcar Falcar
Thanks. I saw that title but chose to bypass it the first time but i returned later and found it. Cheers. K.
Three more photos of Oldfield the showman. The first with Christy, note the two tires on one side, the second a Darracq and the third car I cannot identify. It appears to be a very well done race car. Can anyone tell us what it maybe?
Not sure about the third car. The Christie photo is from 1908, Walter Christie on the left and Barney Oldfield with cigar of course. The car is the 1907 Grand Prix Christie in it's final, beat-up condition. Barney was never photographed driving this car, as far as I know. Barney and Walter went on a tour in the summer of 1908, doing match races for profit, I assume. Walter drove the GP Christie. He had been making his own wheels since 1905, so adding an extra outside front tire for short track racing was not hard to do. This Christie had a lot of weight on the front and must have pushed badly on short ovals. Walter turned the car over to promoter Ernie Moross in late summer '08 and Hughie Hughes took over the driving. IMS has a copy of this photo, only they cut Barney out ! I don't know who has the original photo now, probably Collier. Barney later owned Christie's last racer from 1912-1916. Not this car.
I found this 1937 picture of the UK midgets and their peculiar style intriguing as that's the year midget racing was introduced here when A.J Roycroft brought down a troupe of Americans and an Aussie (where they'd been running for a couple of years) to demo. The photo below shows the locals were instantly hooked, Mathieson selling his Miller and the legendary 'Satan' Brewer spawned. The Wylie's were pioneering hot rodder racers, Arthur winning numerous hillclimbs and such with his model A and in the 50s building a very advanced for it's time rear Jowett engined open wheeler. www.historicspeedway.co.nz/westsprings1.htm http://www.speedwayclub.co.nz/history.php
Looking for Wing info lo and behold another Kline-Kar looks like a similar type of bobbed chassis with forgings hanging out the back like the later rear view of Jimmy Jr.
The Bruce Craig collection would be nice to sort through for sure. As to the third picture that picture is in Nolan's book on Oldfield. They refer to the car a a Mercer special I believe. I have not tried to track it down but the wheels seem to throw me. Car does look nice but as I said I have never followed upon it. Keep up with the pics they are great-Jim
The cars look like Palmer Specials, as built by Jean Reville, and better known as 'Gnats'. The track could be Lea Briadsge - again - and is probably from mid-1935.
This just turned up in California! Check out the last page on the March Hares or Tortises Banger Meet here on the HAMB
Interesting, it looks like a pre Orasi one would be the most desirable, still way better than a F.A.R.T
Lee, I wish I had access but unfortunately they are 1500 miles away. Do you have any great photos you can share with us? Jim, I have seen Nolan's caption in his book but I do not see one thing on this car that is Mercer unless it is the engine. Even the transmission is not Mercer. Regardless it looks to be very well built and I am curious as to what it might be. Thanks for the compliment on the photos, it gives me a good way to take a break here in the shop and rest my concrete weary feet. After a quick post my feet feel better. Three more Oldfield photos, the first a nice clear photo of his Stutz. The second a photo of an effort to cash in and have his name on a car. I forget the details but if I remember this photo was taken at Indy. The third Photo is of him at some sort of gathering in NYC around 1936. I wonder if the Mercer survived?
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