hey watch it I have an engineering degree! haha But I will be the first one out there helping assemble the shit. I know what you mean though Tman and I see it a lot. What you get is a lot of "book smart" people. Though when they need to apply it and solve a real problem they don't know where to start. What these people never seem to realize is the degree is a set of tools, not the be all end all. How you use those tools is what gives you real experience and real knowledge.
I grew up building cars with my Dad out in the garage. I then went to college and got 2 engineering degrees. Since then, I've always been employed in manufacturing (automotive). In my spare time, I've built / restored 4 or 5 old cars. The way I've always looked at it is the practical experience out in the garage helped me to be a better engineer. On more rare occasions, the engineering education helped me out in the garage. I take no offense at the opinions of many that engineers are dipshits...I know a lot of them. I went to school with them. But the problem isn't their engineering degree, it's their lack of practical hands on experience. HRJ
Oh man you are spot on with that. I have used my experience with cars to help me build mechanical systems a lot. It's amazing how simple some of the early engineering designs are, and they are so robust too.
There we go! Bingo! I've been thinking about an automotive related project in the way off future. I know what it will take to build it so I'm trying to learn all I can about metalshaping, fabrication, machining, welding, etc. to enhance what I learned during my Engineering career to make the dream/goal a reality.
Many are, but its no different than anything else. There are many techs, machinists and equipment operators that I would put in that category as well. Exactly..... Well said from another 20 plus year engineer. To be a good engineer, you need a good practical knowledge of how to build, operate, and maintain/repair whatever it is that you are designing. Although it would be the best of both worlds, you don't necessarily have to be a skilled craftsman. But, you definitely need the ability to communicate with them and to appreciate and respect their knowledge and skills.
I think the problem most people have with engineers comes from seeing some oversites when things are designed. Like why is there no drain on the Ford 9"? Just figuring the lube will last a lifetime? For some reason that's all that comes to mind at the moment....oh well. Anyone who has done a filter change on most cars with a angled oil filter will curse the fact the filter almost always drains all over steering, x-member, or something. It's like there is no communication between the chassis dept and the engine dept. They just slap it together. But it is always easy to point out the bad and overlook the good. The good out weighs the bad for sure.
Whatever you decide to do, just remember that no one can take away any knowledge that you gain, whether it's from a professor or by changing your own oil. To succeed in whatever you want to do, sometimes one just has to lose the ego and be humble. By keeping your mind open to new ideas you can amass a great amount of wisdom that will work for you when you need it. If you have the opportunity to learn something new, I say take advantage of it. Just keep in mind that whatever you think you know, it still won't be as much as what someone else out there does. Personally, I went both routes and am grateful for the chance to have learned what I have. I initially started out in college trying to obtain the traditional bachelor's with no direction, flip flopping between majors. By my junior year, I had the opportunity to try and get into a Tool & Die apprenticeship. I decided to go for it and, fortunately, thanks to my schooling, I beat out over 400 people to fill one of five positions. The amount of information I obtained as an apprentice and later as a Journeyman is simply priceless. At the same time, the appenticeship was with a company that offered tuition reimbursement so I kept going to school to finish my bachelor's as well as an additional associate's. By the time I left that company, I was overseeing the toolroom and the journeymen that trained me only six years earlier. The downsides to it all were some of the pretentious engineers that gave me shit for being a lowly toolmaker as well as my "fellow" diemakers that insisted that school was a complete waste of time and that I'd never need it, much like many of the replies in this thread. Here we are a few years later, the company I worked for filed for bankruptcy and sent the majority of engineering and toolrooms overseas. Everyone was equally screwed. I took a buyout, spent the past couple of years enjoying life and will be returning to the workforce soon. All in all, there are some cons to being hands on and having a college degree, mainly due to the ignorance of others, but the pros far outweigh them. There's no reason why you wouldn't be able to use an education to work in a shop or place of your choice. Best of luck with whatever you choose to do.
I'm a piping designer in a refinery and I was 30 years old before I learned that fuckin' engineer was 2 words. Seriously, engineers are like all other professions or callings in life. There are a lot of good ones, but on the other hand... The main problem I see with an engineer trying to get a job in a hotrod shop is that no one could afford to pay him or her a decent salary. As has been mentioned, there's not a lot of book learning type engineering that goes into building a rod.
I am also a Mechanical Engineering and must be scootermcrad's twin.. so same goes for me X2 lol Also, there are a lot of engineers that design the very vehicles we all drive, but they themselves have never touched a vehicle before. It just comes down to booksmarts, streetsmarts, and common sense... having all 3 in a ME is a rarity, but it does happen.... And to comment on the actual question that this post is about... its hard to find a place that will hire any type of engineer in a shop now adays... it does happen, but not as much as it should. I went jobless after graduating for 11 months.. I am working as a parts manager at an automotive maintenance facility up the road and I cant even cover my own bills from school... 60k in debt and 10 bucks an hour doesnt mix... especially when I am renting
It doesn't matter what you go to college for, whether it be engineering, a teacher, a doctor, a technican at a trade school or anything else. It basically all boils down to hot rods cost money and money doesn't grow on trees you have to work for it. Engineers can be retarted ( I know because I am one) but at least they make good money. I became an engineer because it was interesting and the pay is good so I can actually make a living and support my car hobby. At least your going to get an education...that really is all that matters.
I've worked on cars for 40+ years and have seen many instances where you could tell the engineers didn't have a "hands on" concept of what they designed. I always thought that for every year they designed cars, they should have to work (as a mechanic) on what they had previously designed. Kind of an advanced education, I think it would change their approach to problems. On the other hand, they design a lot of things right. Kinda hard to argue with The Ramchargers, Jack Roush, Bill Jenkins, and.........the list is endless. Larry T
WTF....I'll throw a little more fuel into the fire. From my POV (having 18 years in various Engineering roles) the overall issue isn't that "Engineer's don't have a clue or they wouldn't have designed it this way". It's that the fabricators, machinests, assemblers, or whoever don't know the total requirements of the item being created and assume the Engineer must be a moron. There is often a good reason why that damn bolt is placed in that hard to reach location or that funky tab is sticking out there. You just don't know about it. Sometimes its due to strengh, or available space, or just to keep that idiot factory worker who doesn't want to follow the established work instructions from putting something in backward. As far as egos go......there's A-holes in every walk of life.
I guess if you want to build the first 32 ford with a sbc that requires 50% of the car to be dismantled to replace the waterpump- then you might have a use for an automotive engineer in you rod shop.
I'm not an engineer. The math was just too intense for me. That being said I work with engineers all day long. Some are the pocket protector varity and others are real hands on types. My program here has the highest ratio of 1320 club members at the facility. Its a pleasure to associate with both stripes. Shure, some are really nerdy but that helps when I need computer help. I drive the forklift and semi. They respect my skills and I respect them. The math doing radar logorythims (?) and such has no numbers.
Who do you think comes up with most of the creative, cutting-edge, high-tech stuff that advances this world? Engifuckineers. Sometimes those "oversites" are due to the bean counters. Eliminating a part or two (ie; bung and plug) could be a six/seven/eight-figure dollar savings per year. Other times those "oversites" are due to other design constraints. Such as a requirement that a single part is able to fit within multiple assemblies of different designs (ie; engine and chassis). Then again, sometimes those "oversites" are just that; something that wasn't considered.
We are now onto page five and no one has answered the question "Do you need an engineer in a hot rod shop?" The question of weather or not a engineer designed the machinery that makes duct tape has been answered. The question of weather or not all engineers are nerds has been answered. The question of weather or not we need engineers in the world has been answered. The question of weather or not your engineering degree procured you a job that made you a lot of money has been answered. . . . . . but the original question of weather or not you need an engineer in a hot rod shop has not been answered.
OK, here is where the 'nerdy' or 'anal retentive' part of my engineering brain kicks in. Sorry in advance, but you did it five times... Weather - Wikipedia, the free <WBR>encyclopedia Weather is a set of all the phenomena occurring in a given atmosphere at a given time. Most weather phenomena occur in the troposphere, just below the stratosphere. Weather refers,... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather - 113k - Cached
For 11years I have had Me/ee guys in my racing school they needed dirty hands to add to the paper, and the combo made them much more marketable to race teams. Paper alone was often met with " yeah but can you DO anything?" get in school and stick to it
I didn't derail the thread, I said from the very start that traditional hot rods are way to simple warrant having an engineer on staff in a hot rod shop. ...did I make five posts in the thread already? Shit, I need to get out more!
I would think it a good thing,,long as you don't try to redo everything that comes your way.. That whole to much knowledge thing ,,ya know
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Oh Gawd!!! OK, we all have our limits...and unless I am mistaken, good communication skills are still of relative importance. .
Was just giving you a hard time. Although he mispelled it, I think you understood what he was communicating. If you are going to spellcheck the HAMB, you have quite a job ahead of you. You can start with mine because I spell like a brain dead tweaker who is also on crack.
The Jalopy Journal
