Yes me again This is the 4 wheel version of the Fantom. I think this is a restoration rather than a replica.
Sanctarosa, I don't know what to say except that the Fantom is pretty cool looking. It wouldn't be of much practical use in my neck of the woods, though, unless it were somehow self-propelled. I could see using those plans on a true cyclecar chassis to build a more efficient cyclecar, though. What's gearing like on the human-propelled version? -Dave
Hi Dave, I think the Fantom's gearing can be whatever you might have to hand in the way of donor bicycle parts and will fit With regard to getting such a cyclecar to actually move the ones built for family use often had two sets of pedals which certainly would help matters along a bit. Using a 'hjälpmotor' (Finnish for helper motor) was also something that was often done. Please excuse the quality of this grainy old photo I was given a number of old Villiers single cylinder engines not so long ago that would certainly provide enough parts to build up a useful 'hjälpmotor'. Around here the landscape is largely flat and such a cyclecar would only be for local use anyway.
SanctaRose - the workings of the Fantom with the pedals being in a forward position and high remind me of the recumbent bicyles I see around town and on the trail here. I will try later to attach a few photos of a cycle car I read an article about that I thought everyone here on this thread might like to see. I'm having a bit of a problem with getting the images down to a usable size for this thread. I'll post when I get the best of it. Really have been enjoying reading this cycle car thread - haven't been able to read all the way through yet, but what I have has been very interesting. Jay
Here's one I saw at Oley motorcycle show a few years ago. Pics were given by 62Pan. The body was fiberglass and engine was a flathead Harley, had to be kickstarted from the passenger's seat. I don't think I recognise the body, anyone?
Yes nuffing new under the sun when it comes to bicycle technology Hammer Head Those modern hi-tech recumbents on the trail are the grandchildren of the plywood Velocars and bicycle cars & etc from the pre-war and wartime period of last century. Google 'Mochet' and 'Velocar' and you'll be amazed at what you see.
There's an interesting website, - in German unfortunately, - which outlines how to build a cyclecar. The instructions are based on those given in a book, 'The New Universe' possibly published in 1924. http://www.cyclecar.de/index.html Babelfish gives a somewhat odd translation, but it's possible to piece the instructions together.
I can translate it better than Babelfish, if there´s anything you really need to know. Babelfish doesn´t really get along with German!
Thanks for the offer of help with translation James Fortunately most of the text can be figured out with reference to the diagrams, but if I really get stuck I'll definitely ask for your help. I wouldn't mind giving this a go; - I've got a suitable prewar motor and gearbox already and the rest can be put together with some careful selection of materials at the local rubbish tip and scrapyards.
I've been digging about amongst my old image files and I found some scans of a cyclecar drawing I must've done almost twenty years ago. Very much based on a Carden with a dash of Austin '7' here and there. Several years ago I went so far as to make a start on a wooden model to help me work out basic details and sizes. I've found a few pictures I took with a very primitive early Kodak digital camera and I have a feeling that the model itself is in storage and is still in one piece. The wheels I'm using in the pictures came from a pair of toy plastic battery powered bicycles. The scale is 1&1/2 inches to the foot if I remember correctly.
Nice model and I like the plan. I find it just amazing to be sharing ideas on such an obscure subject with a Sister on the other side of the world. The Net and specifically the HAMB are truely global, diverse and wonderful. I assume that you reside in a convent and wonder what facilities you have to build a vehicle. Or will you be doing this with your father and brothers?
Thanks for the nice comments about my model And yes isn't the internet marvellous for communicating with like minded folk! I keep in touch with friends in overseas Religious orders via the internet and it's wonderful to be able to do so. I'm the sort of Sister who doesn't live in a convent as Sisters from an 'enclosed' order do, but I live almost next door to the parish church in a small cottage that has a very nice garage and carport with enough room for cyclecar building provided I don't try making a large cyclecar (no tandem seating, but I can manage a 'sociable') I largely get about by bicycle or on my adult tricycle so I'm very used to doing my own bicycle repairs. I do my own household repairs too. As much as possible I want to build this cyclecar with ordinary handtools as I want to demonstrate that low cost transport can be built with very basic equipment. I've been looking around for 21 inch front wheels from Yamasuzkhonda dirt bikes and I've had lots of luck with finding them too. After thinking about it I'm going to use wheels with disc brakes rather than drum brakes as the older drum braked wheels are harder to find and are often in a very knocked about condition. Unfortunately my Dad died just over 20 years ago and I still miss him heaps. I don't hear much from my brothers these days, - most probably because the last thing they ever expected me to do was convert to Catholicism and then become a Religious Sister.
After a quick trip on my bicycle and a search about I've found the cyclecar model. No sign of the wee bits I made for the sliding pillar front suspension, but at least I found all the wheels. Well it's really hard to get hold of skinny tyred wire wheels suitable to use for a model cyclecar and I was really thrilled when I found those two toy bicycles all those years ago because I did not want to make my own wheels. I was wrong about the scale, it's more like 2 &1/2 inches to the foot. After looking at it for the first time in ages I can see I've put the floor in too high by about an inch, but I guess I can live with it. The wee engine is a 26cc OS 4 stroke and was an unexpected gift. Motorizing the model was never in the plan, but it certainly does look nice sitting in the engine compartment. The 'bonnet' at the front was only intended to cover up the week's grocery shopping as well as the driver's legs. Well prest-O, change-O! The plan is now for a 2F1R three wheeler with a tubular beam axle on 1/4 eliptic springs and the engine at the front. Otherwise the general proportions will remain the same. The body and chassis will be wood and the bodyshell will in effect be in unit with the chassis to make everything light, but strong.
Precisely my thinking for my Morris Minor! The Minor was actually supposed to be a sort of miniature Javelin in concept. Issigonis had designed it around a side-valve flat four, which never made it to production because the prototype was sabotaged, and when the sabotage was sorted the engine was found to be a bit on the gutless side. The Minor was consequently launched with the old 918cc side-valve four shoehorned in. Still, the engine bay is short and wide, especially with the extra 4" of width Issigonis had inserted into the body dies at the last moment: I suspect he might have been trying to keep the door open for an ohv flat four early in production. The upshot is, the Minor engine bay fits a Subaru EJ engine like a glove. The only snag is, the exhaust ports are directly over the "chassis legs", so something will have to move. My challenge will be to build a computerless EJ. Fortunately the aircraft guys have already discovered that a Ford CVH distributor can be made to run off the back end of the right-hand cam quite easily. Then it's a manifold for a pair of 1¾" SUs. The recent threads on home casting got me thinking about an aluminium cam-belt cover, too. But I digress, as the resulting 2½-litre Morris Minor would in no way constitute a cyclecar. One observation, though, after reading most of this (fascinating) thread. It seems that people on here mean three distinct things by the term "cyclecar": 1. A car powered by a motorcycle engine, 2. A very small car, like an Isetta or Messerschmitt, and 3. A light, (often over-)simplified car of the sort popular c. 1910-1925. At the risk of being pedantic I'd say the term for 2. is properly "microcar"; nor is the use of a motorcycle engine enough. I wouldn't call call those pretty rear-engined BMW 700 coupés of the early '60s cyclecars, despite the motorbike-based flat-twin: This is rather a proper small car, like a Mini or Hillman Imp, NSU, Simca, etc. To my mind a cyclecar is properly something like a GN; running to Bedelia, Carden, etc. in the weird direction, and to Amilcar and Salmson in the other. The essential feature is the attempt to simplify the mechanism to a radical extent, and the resulting arachnid spindliness.
I completely agree with your definition of a cyclecar Ned Morrie Minors are a love of mine too having owned a 1954 Series II for just over 8 years. I was really upset when I sold 'Maeve', but she did go to a good home. I remember seeing a lovely red Morrie convertible with a Damlier V8 and auto gearbox at a car show well over 20 years ago now. The little alloy V8 fitted beautifully and looked like it was meant to be there. Now that was a very pretty Morrie indeed
I agree with the definition of cyclecar, but I also feel that microcars are somewhat relevant to the conversation, as they’re sort of the spiritual successor to the cyclecar (albeit not to the racing versions). What I feel like is not relevant is something like a T-bucket with a Harley EVO motor or that Can Am Spider monstrosity posted a few pages back. SanctaRosa, I love the looks of your model. I do hope you start on a driveable vehicle soon, as I would love to see that come together on the HAMB. That might make you only the second HAMBster to build a cyclecar. -Dave
I hope so too Dave I am kept fairly busy at the moment though and I have a huge pile of stuff in the garage to sort through for St. Vincent de Paul before I have myself some free and clear working space. At least I've been able to source wheels for the project and while I was at the rubbish tip yesterday I discovered that somebody had dumped some lengths of lovely clean 30mm steel tube. Not so certain about the engine just yet, - I have a vintage British Anzani twin cylinder outboard engine which is very nice, but would need alot of messing about with to become a cyclecar engine. I've also got an Albion motorcycle type 3 speed gearbox and clutch and a lot of Villiers engine bits. When I think of the stuff I used to have back in my 20s it really does bring a tear to my eye; - nobody wanted it back then it was junk you could take away for virtually nothing. Stll onward and upward as they say......
Ok....... a British Anzani twin cyl engine is about 322cc and they were considered to be pretty reliable and were even sometimes tuned up something wicked for racing. I won't be doing any tuning on mine as I'm more than happy enough to leave well alone in the interests of reliability and not busting anything. I was told it was a 16Hp engine when I purchased it a little while ago for the princely sum of $NZ20.00 which has to be a bargain in anybody's money.
I don't have a lot ot add to this thread but I am watching with a close fascination. SanctaRosa you are my hero. Creating practical transportation out of cast offs and junk. Wonderful! Quite often, when I sit mired in traffic, I ponder the question "do we really need a 4000 pound veritable steamroller to perform 90% of our transportation needs"? Could'nt a 500 pound vehicle cover some of that and save a little fuel to boot? The micro cars are starting to pop up here in the state of Florida, but even those are sleds compared to the cyclecar concept. Keep up the good work folks, I love what you are doing. I guess the next time I'm at the salvage yard I'll have to take a closer look at those spoke wheels ; )
Hero?! Now that's a surprise You make a very good point though Henry, we don't need to be driving around in great huge motor vehicles that cost $$$$$$$$ when something smaller and more simple would do the job very nicely. While I was working in the garden this afternoon the thought struck me that a really sensible piece of equipment to make would be a motorwheel. There's a really good post earlier in this thread with a good big photo of the motorwheel built for a B&S buckboard replica and I'm certain that I could do something similar. Whatever cyclecar I end up with eventually having a motorwheel for chassis testing & etc would be an awfully good idea.
I didn't know where else to post this, but it seemed to fit here best. Gary http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2009/06/pulse-jet_bike.html
Cool retro look but 3 gallons in 5 minutes I'd be thinking the whole time I could have had a big block powered truck. And those bicycle brakes at 60-75 mph? Brrrr scary.
Hi, I'm new here. I recently discovered this forum as well as cyclekarts. Currently I'm trying to find plans and parts to build something between a cyclecar and a cyclekart, that is, a little larger than a cyclekart and with two seats. That's the final project, but first I'll start with a one seat standard cyclekart. Given the "do it ALL yourself" nature of the cyclekarting clubs, there're no step by step plans or a comprehensive part list with everything you need to buy, parts you can't buy and have to do by yourself, things like that. So now I'm trying to find people who know or have some idea about how to build one. I'm particulary worried about the basic chassis, wheels and steering. I'm good at building things but I'm not that good welding (lack of experience actually). Besides the body, is everything I need for the chassis, wheels, motor and steering mechanism available at a motorbike and/or go kart store? In case you wonder, I'll use steel, metal sheets and wood for the chassis, frame and body. Are there one side mounted motorbike wheels? What would be the best way to add wheels to the frame with already available parts? Thanks a lot!
Did you find the cyclekart website Ok? http://www.cyclekarts.com/ That's where everybody usually starts off when they discover Cyclekarts And there's this....... http://www.cyclekarts.com/Typ59CK.pdf which isn't a great deal of use I know, but I put it in anyway. There is a Yahoo group for them too http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/cyclekart/ but I see you found that already In answer to your question, generally motorcycle wheels can be mounted with only one side of the axle supported provided you're sensible about the load you're expecting them to carry.
Yay! - things are going well. I wasn't entirely taken with the idea of a cyclecar with a British Anzani twin cylinder two stroke engine as I would really prefer something a lot more vintage looking. Then I remembered that the Model 'L' Gravely tractor had an absolutely wonderful single cylinder 'T' head air cooled engine with huge flywheels and a nice solid slow reving beat to its exhaust. Some years ago I had a pet Gravely 'L' head engine, but the poor thing had a split in its cylinder barrel and and it would smoke and whistle something dreadful. Somebody offered me silly money for it saying they knew somebody who could fix it, but it never really did get over its awful affliction despite a fortune in metal stitching being spent on it. Anyway I've found a Gravely model 'L' and all I need to do now is make it mine. Is there a saint for internal combustion engines I wonder? Perhaps I shall light a candle just to be on the safe side
322cc. Watercooled 2 stroke, a little work on the porting, a couple of well designed expansion chambers, a pair of 30mm carbies and modern 2-stroke oil.....40 reliable Hp.. easy. You will need some Heavy Duty bicycle spokes, or better still a gogomobile dart..
Remember the tenth Commandment, sister! I believe St. Catherine of Alexandria - of Catherine wheel fame - is the patron saint of mechanics? And what about St. Frances of Rome? And don't forget St. Claude de la Colombiere, patron saint of toymakers ...
I've looked at Cyclekarts, but the concept lost me where it shifted from something like cyclecars, only a step further, to miniature vintage racing replicas with rear engines, single-speed gearboxes, and one-wheel-drive. I'd have wanted a clutch and gear-shifting, at least! I did explore my take on the idea in this "Cardenette", which uses parts from a 125cc commuter motorbike: The "grille" top is actually the front end of the bike tank. Rear engine, sequential five-speed, probably DeDion rear axle.
Don't get me wrong it's a lovely engine, it's just that I don't think it's quite wot I want to install in the type of vehicle I actually need at present. Something like a Carden clone would be a cool place to fit my British Anzani engine, but to be honest I don't really have a need for a little sports cyclecar in my line of work no matter how much I might feel tempted by the idea (reality check). Truth be told I need a lightweight 'pickup' vehicle ......... http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2553912190106405274RgPYLg .......... like this 1903 Orient Truck as I'm forever having to pickup stuff and take it places and I don't like silly modern vehicles as they are impossible to get in and out of while wearing a habit without jamming something in the door. The horseless carriage was a wonderfully simple idea and I think we would all a lot better off if that was the direction motor vehicles had developed in instead of the present sea of tintops that infest the roads. Life is far too swiftly lived these days and a little slow down in the motoring department would do everyone a lot of good. This is why I want the Gravely 'L' engine; 3 & 1/4 bore X 3 & 1/2 stroke for 20 something cubic inches, perfectly vintage with the valves to either side of the cylinder barrel where they're supposed to be. Updraught carb, - it just gets better and better Oh that's excellent Ned, - St. Catherine of Alexandra, - I shall hang a copy of her icon over my workbench once I've actually been able to find my workbench amongst all the piles of things I have to sort and pass on to those who need them. And as for the 10th Commandment I fully intend to pay a full and proper price for the Gravely engine and won't covert it at all (or not much anyway until it's fully paid for and delivered). Now that is a really great idea Ned, - using the front of the petrol tank to form the grille top. I like that, - very elegant. I must admit that it always seemed to me that in building a Cyclekart with only a little more effort an actual Cyclecar could've been constructed instead.
Didn't have time to read al 11 pages but at the ACD museum in Auburn they have one called an IMP. Pretty cool looking.
The Jalopy Journal
