Projects A late introduction-Junior Conway coupe build

Omg !!!!

 

can't wait to see this finished. awesome job guy's

 

Is everyone going to be sticklers about this lowered thing???????

 

looking great ! way to go jivin jer !!! keep the updates coming !

 

Okay, lets talk about the lowering issue. As I examined all of the pictures of Juniors car I noted that it was lower in one picture and higher in another. Juniors explanation for this was what a lot of us had to deal with back in the day. Cops. You can see examples of this in post #313. Picture #2, 3 and 6 are lower than picture's 4 and 5. Picture #5 is just before Junior sold the car. Junior says that he had cut coils/dropped spindles and mods to the frame where the A arms attach in the front. The rear had 4" blocks with de-arched springs. I asked him how he got access to the bottom of the car when you needed to work on it? His reply was We took 2x4's to lift it up enough to get a jack under it.

This car came with dropped spindles and de-arched springs in the rear (I think). There were no blocks in the back (check post #1). As you can see were not concerned about the lowering issue at the moment. However, the wheels are turning. I would like it to be as low as possible/practical. I'm leaning towards chopped (1 coil) aerostar coils for the front. I'm looking for 4" blocks for the rear (no luck so far). This would probably be the very last thing done after everything else is functional. I"m thinking that this will get the job done in this area. Junior says that after he got the chrome/reverse wheels, he had to run 560's on the front for clearance. Your thoughts?

 

whatever it takes Jer....gotta be LOW...If JR could do it we know you can do it...wouldn't go with reverse rims if that's a problem...like the wheelcovers best anyway. you're all doing a great job!

 

Very nice

 

That rear 3/4 shot shows off some straight bodywork, this things gonna be nice. I hope you do get it as low as Junior's, the stance will be the crowning touch. Great job guys!

 

Just got off the phone with FedEx. They have officially called off the hunt for you ripple lakes pipes.

I’ll pm you with the details…


That’s the last time I will use them. UPS from now on!

 

Oh-oh... This is gonna hurt!

If you're going to get the car as low as Junior had it without bags, Jer, you're going to have to use every trick in the book. Moderation just won't get it done...and forget practicality. Not going to happen.

Chopped coils, reversed spindles, stepped lower control arms and relocated upper arms will get it low enough in the front, but you'll have very little suspension travel and lots of bump steer. You'll also need a roller skate on your oil pan!

De-arched springs and big blocks will get the rear down, but here you'll have to C-notch the frame and chop the floor for pumpkin and driveshaft clearance. Ditto the ground clearance problem. These old boats always had smashed echo cans for a reason!

I hate bags, Jerry, but that's really your only practical way out. If you lower the car so it looks even close to the way Junior had it, you'll hate driving it. This I promise.

I lived in CA in the '60s and '70s and the roads were pretty darn smooth, compared to most other places in the country. The state was rich with tax money and expanding like crazy in the '50s and '60s, so all the roadways and freeways were new and very well built. Lowered customs were in a perfect environment in those days.

They also didn't have to deal with drainage so much, so driveways and entrance/exits had gentle slopes which were easy to negotiate if one took them at an angle.

Texas is a whole 'nother matter, as is pretty much the whole country in these days of general roadway disrepair.

If you use old-time lowering methods, not only will you not enjoy driving the car as low as the original car was, but you'll also end up beating the snot out of the underside, including the bumpers, fenders, rockers, skirts, lakes pipes, etc. You'll end up with a trailer queen, and I know that's not what you'd want.

I hate to recommend any compromises on the original design, but I just don't see any way around using bags to get the effect you want and the practicality you need.

You've got your work cut out for you, both making the decision how to lower it, but also how far. But, you've done such a great job cloning Junior's coupe up to this point. I know you'll figure it out and do it right.

 

I couldn't agree with this statement more; I also agree that the entire essense of this car was the fact that it was so, so low. I even remember reading (was it in Andy Southard's book, sorry if this has already been brought up) that they used to grab a few guys and manually lift it over speed bumps or other obsticles, it was that low!

I hate to be this way, but I am a stickler for stance - even 1 inch, ONE INCH too high will kill the effect for me; it's as important as the color and every other detail that you have worked so hard at on this build.

Strike one on most clones - sits higher than back in the day. Strike two - radial tires, and you're out! (I doubt you're doing that but just checking!) I'd rather see air bags with the correct size and style bias-ply tires and a perfect stance to capture the true essense of the car - the "inaccuracy" underneath can be forgiven and will virtually never be seen.

Think about hiding the tank, compressor and related hardware in an old luggage case or vintage ice chest (my entire system is in a 1956 Samsonite luggage case); or you might find you have room even under the rear seat. The guy who installs my systems does so with a remote control fob that allows you to remotely raise and lower the car - one of my cars doesn't even have gauges it's so inconspicuous! Use unpolished stainless hardline, maybe even hidden inside or above the framerails so you don't have cheap plastic lines showing. There are ways you can do it that will defininitely hide it or make it look more period correct.

All food for thought, but sorry, stance will be absolutely critical for this car!

 

x2!!

 

You guys are awesome. As much as you (we) are impacted by this car I'm equally impacted being able to have this car on the table for discussion. How cool!

Just for clarification, I was a teenager in the Seattle area in the late 50s. So the idea of a car being on the ground is where I started. As a matter of fact there was a 55 bel-air 2 door htp that cruised the Renton loop with one hung low on both ¼'s. You wondered how it negotiated the normal obstacles (on the street) but, it did. As Eric (missysdad1) has said the streets were generally in pretty good shape. I just checked the pic of my 54 chev that I had in h.s. and the top of the wheel opening was just hiding the top of the wheel. So I know of what you speak.

With that being said it would be sacrilegious for this car to violate (in any meaningful way) the persona and status that the original car acquired back in the day. Plus there is Jr looking on. So I think I need to start the process (step by step) of bringing this car down to earth when the time comes. It does have the frame and floor mods. Posts 48-58-59-60. I appreciate you bringing bags to this discussion. Peer pressure is normally a consideration. But, bags are definitely going to effect my digestive system in a major way (on this car). They would probably break Jr's heart (see post #55). Iv'e been there and struggled with armstrong steering and all the rest. It was considered normal you know. Regarding the desire/need to drive it, you need to reread my very first post in this thread. This car has always from the start been created for the ages. It will be on the block (for sale) when it's done. As Iv'e said to Jr this is more of a thing than a car.

 

Not to drive =

Authentic to original =

Tough call, Jer, as I mentioned before. But as I also mentioned before, I know you'll do the right thing.

 

Ask Junior if he would have used bags back then if they were more popular to use. I agree, you wouldnt be able to get in and out of driveways easy the way Junior had it. Then again, you could do a better job than a fifties torch job, and do the suspension right where the only thing you have to worry about is hitting the ground. In the original pics the car looks like it has no scrubline looking at the bottom of the front rim. Put some good casters on the back? Just make sure the back is not higher than the front.

 

I'd definately put some good casters out back, and I'd try it with the dropped spindles and cut coils, 4" blocks along with dearched springs will make it sit nice in the back, you will definitely need to notch the frame in the back with that setup...

I'm currently running 3" blocks along with Jamco rear springs and I have to put a bottle jack between the rear and frame in order to get the G78 tire out back..it would definitely be some work to get the tire out with 4" blocks

that being said, I'd try and stay away from the airbags...something about a car (especially one that looks to drove out of the little pages) dropping down to the ground as it pulls into a car show doesn't look right...

NICE job on the car btw!! definately one of my favorites, that car has inspired me greatly...

 

Jer, drove a 50 Ford with flipped spindles , 3" blocks, and 8" rear for years...car went everywhere had NO BUMP STEER and drove great...had a rub plate under pan area that would light up the nite with sparks once in a while...but what the hay, gotta be COOL...Keep on Keepin' on...You guys are doing awesome!

 

RDR is absolutely right, Jer, and my comments were less than correct in all applications. Cars as low as Junior's require multiple lowering techniques, which complicates matters somewhat.

Bumpsteer is caused by the changing effective length of the spindle connecting rods as they travel through their arc as the suspension goes up and down.

The closer to parallel (with the ground) the spindle connecting rods are at ride height the less bump steer will be experienced.

Conversely, the further away from parallel (to the ground) the spindle connecting rods are at ride height, the more bump steer will be experienced.

Properly flipped spindles will include not only the reshaping of the steering arms but also the lengthening of them as necessary so that the spindle conecting rods remain parallel (to the ground) at ride height.

The proper modification of the steering arms also brings the steering effort back to near normal.

The higher the spindles in relation to the spindle connecting rods, the longer the steering arms must be to allow the spindle connecting rods to remain parallel to the ground.

Cut coils and stepped lower control arms also contribute to the need for longer steering arms.

The problem is that deep drops call for VERY LONG steering arms, so long that they are clearly unsafe due to the loads they must endure.

And for this reason, most steering arms were heated and bent back in the day, but few were lengthened as this called for two sets of steering arms to make one set of lengthened arms.

So, sometimes they were done right, as RDR points out...and sometimes not. The deeper the drop the less likely it was done correctly...and the higher likelihood of mild, moderate or even severe bump steer. The saving grace, if there is one, was that severely lowered cars also had very little suspension travel, thus very little opportunity for bump steer to take place.

Fatman Fabrications can supply fabricated steering arms for use with their dropped spindles which appear to be lengthened as well as reshaped. You might want to check with them as to whether or not they can build arms to deal with a car as radically low and Junior's was in it's lowest incarnation...which is pretty darn low.

It would be interesting to see if Junior can remember how his front end was lowered and if he can remember if his steering arms were modified beyond heating and bending.

Surely he can remember how the car drove, and that would give you some very strong clues as to how...and how well...his front suspension work was done.

This is a really neat build, Jer. It brings back waves of memories about how those of us not lucky enough to live in California in those days tried to figure out how the California boys did it so we could copy it on our own rides.

I can't thank you enough for taking this project on!

 

I appreciate this input. It helps.

 

The cool thing about this car and discussions that surround it is that it gives us a look not only at this car but, Jr reacting to the culture and the culture itself.

This first pic shows the car just after being completed during the Barris marathon (post #220). This is the car at its lowest. Geo. And Jr were driving by the Lynwood Fire Dept. and Geo. thought it would be a great place for a shot of Jr's car. Jr maneuvered the car onto the grass area after they got permission to do so. While the car was setting there during the shoot the tires settled into the grass. When they left there were two trenches that were dug in the grass by the lower a arms. Needless to say there were some unhappy people at the fire dept after that trick.

The car had flipped uprights. This was before dropped ones. The lower a arms were modified as were the steering components, and chopped coils of course. I think Jr said he had 6" (!) blocks in the back with de arched springs.. As far as having access to the rear tires, forget it.

If you wanted the title to the lowest car around it meant you had to have a way to measure a car that you thought might be a threat. The pan did end up with a hole in it once. The car was all scraped up underneath. The car drove fine.. Jr says that having a car like this was a sonofabitch, but its what you did back then.

The last pic is the historical record of Jr's surrender to the forces that be. This was the car at its highest. Jr drove the car like this for about a year before he sold it.

 

Just finished looking at the Andy S. 's Custom of the 50's book and looking at my copy of the feature magazine it was in back in November 1957. One of my all time favorite shoebox customs, never get tired of looking at it !

 

The assembly continues as we get the car ready for the upholstery shop. The stainless hasn't arrived yet from my local guy (that's doing a great job). We're concentrating on the firewall in preparation for the final installation of the dash. Jr sent me a fuzzy pic to help with the location/configuration of the phone. This pic shows the correct steering wheel that I have to find. It's a 55 merc accessory wheel. I bought a 56 monterey wheel early on by mistake. It will have to do for now. The little bracket that holds the air vent controls (just below the speedo) was interesting. My car had those controls in a bracket to the left of that location that I had chromed. I had this correct bracket on my parts car. One of the problems I have with this build is thinking Iv'e got everything figured out until the next pic comes out of hiding that reveals something different.
The car had the unique Gaylord headliner in it when Herb (Jr's brother) bought it in 53. During Herb's ownership Jr paid for the interior to be finished. A mom & pop (Russ & Bess) in Compton did the rest of the interior. Note the kick panels that don't match the door panels. Yes, this must be captured as well. They've taken the rubber lip off the firewall insulator. This trims the bottom and helps keep the carpet tucked in (which isn't in the pic). All this stuff is important if we're going to see the real car.

 

damn your doing a great Job! wow that accessory wheel is not going to be easy to find

 

Lets get this thing together.

 

and more.

 

Still more.

 

The other side.

 

wow.

 

Almost ready to install with correct bracket. Notice the door poppers at r-l of radio and, trunk popper on l.

 

what make/model is the mirror from? I didn't see where it was mentioned.