Overheating FE,,,again

OK, I know that this subject has been posted here before. I have researched the answers and have made all the checks and/or tried them all. Nada,,,still overheating. I am about ready to install a sbc and I hate them.

Here is what I have:
*1959 Ford Rachero. Original engine was a 352 with Ford-O-Matic*******. The truck was built for an FE.
*Current engine is a late model 60's 390 car engine. Completely rebuilt less than 500 miles ago. Heads have been milled some. I don't know how much. It has a new water pump, a fairly mild Comp Cams hydraulic cam, Edelbrock Perfromer manifold with Edelbrock 4 brl carb, electronic ignition (vacume), C-6 automatic.
*Radiator is large three core for auto******* with electric after market 14" fan and shroud.
*Car has add on A/C with A/C cooler well forward of radiator (no air blockage). Engine has a 180 thermostat (it works)
*Vacume is hooked to a manifold vacume source, not a ported ported source. Timing is set at 8 degrees with vacume unhooked.

Here is what happens:
*Engine warms up normal to 180. Not to slow or too fast. about 10 minutes or so.
*No real issues at idle. Engines stays 180 or less for a very long time idling although eventually it will come up to 200 if outside temp really hot. This could take 30 to 45 minutes or so
*At highway speed, the temp very slowly creeps upwards to about 200 and stays for a while. This slow creep takes about 30 miles or so at say 60 mph. After it has reached 200 and I stop for a traffic light, the temp will not come down, but may increase with time at a light. Once I get going agian, the temp will not come down any, but it returns to a slow creep upwards until it overheats and boils over. It boils over at about 230. I have a 14 lb cap.
*I do not have a recovery system.

Anyone running an FE have a clue?

FACTS:
*Radiator is clear and flows great. A shop has checked it twice off the car. Coolant is water plus anti freeze plus a race coolant (water wetter)
*Water pump is new, not rebuilt. I****ume it works.
*No combustion gases in water. Been checked twice.
*No loss of water before overheating. System holds fine.
*Timing has been checked, but????????????

HELP

 

Additional information:
*I suspect, but am not sure, that the static compressioin may be around 10:1 or 10.5:1 since the heads have been milled some
*I have considered buying a specialty direct replacement 4 core aluminum radiator from from one of the Nostalgia Ford Parts dealers like Dearborn Ford, but damn they are expensive at $600 plus
*I have considered one of the Edelbrock aluminum water pumps too.

HELP

 

1) Not enough airflow into the radiator (or what's going in is not being effectively directed through the radiator).

2) Insufficient airflow OUT of the engine compartment. This can be a very subtle problem. One way to test for it is to remove the hood temporarily.

3) Head gaskets installed incorrectly for a Ford. I think this is less likely from what you've described, but possible.

 

Have you ever checked to see what the timing is at with the vacuum line connected. If you have a vacuum gauge connected while driving you can duplicate the same vacuum reading sitting still and check the timing again, this will let you know what the timing is at when you're cruisin'. Also is it possible that your carb is way lean, what do the plugs look like ?

 

Do you have an auxilery Trans cooler? Adding one may be enough to fix the problem.

 

I would suspect the T stat is a problem. You do have all the shrouds and seals around the radiator right?

At highway speed if air can go around your radiator it will.

I ran the hopped up 390 in my Galaxy for quit awhile, it had heating problem at first. But I dumped the cheap auto zone T stat for a better quality fast acting stat and changed from the stock/rebuilt water pump to a brand new flow cooler. No fan shroud and flex fan. Never had a heating problem after the changes.

Never the less it sounds like your problem is the stat. It may be sticking or whatever. One of the things that we used to do with our Big block Chryslers that seemed to have a heating problem on the highway but not at idle was drill two or three 1/8 to 3/16 holes around the outside of the T stat. I don't know the physics behind it but I know that that would cure them.

Oh the flow cooler pump is a way better pump than the Edelbrock.

AAnd one toher thing I don't know what kind of dizzy you are running but it probably needs to be run on metered vacuum and not straight out of the manifold.

 

I'm no expert but I would listen to the other post but I had a FE T-bird and noticed a difference in temp when I ran thicker Oil. Also get an overflo tank they do help.

 

I always check for an air flow problem by laying a shop rag to the outside of the radiator, in your case the ac condensor. If it holds it there at idle then there is good air flow, if not then you will have to figure out what needs to be done to improve it. Last I would check the waterpump impeller, there's good one's and one's made just to barely work.

 

It may be that your fan/shroud combo is not flowing enough air at highway speed. If the fan is too small or it turns too slow it effectively blocks the air from passing through the core. Maybe look at the biggest fan you can get on your radiator, or two smaller fans side by side.

Also, I thought someone else had mentioned this but can't see it now, check the direction your fan is blowing. Electric fans have reversible motors because they have to spin in opposite directions depending on whether they are in front or behind the radiator. If it's wrong just swap the wires over.

 

I presume that you have a surge tank and the hose between the water pump and intake manifold isn't collapsed. Check the radiator hoses to make sure they're not collapsed or soft when they're hot.

I had a few FE Fords that would run hot for no reason either. All of the above was up to snuff. The fix was, take out the thermostat in hot weather, when the fall came, I'd put it back in. You got nothing to lose by taking out the t-stat and see how it behaves.

Bob

 

a couple of observations;
1. vacum advance should be on ported vacum, if connected to manifold vacum you will actually lose timing with acceleration, which may cause your overheating.
2. cooling fans only help with slow speeds, so overheating when at 60 mph is not the fan, it would be something like an obstruction of flow through the rad.
3. has the bore been changed on the block? FE blocks have been known to have lots of core shift and the cyl. walls may be real thin. I have seen .030" overbore cyl's paper thin. again this may cause the overheating?
my 2 cents, start with the timing fix. if you dont have ported vacum, shoot for around 35 total degrees of advance, dont worry about the initial timing and try a test run??

 

What octane fuel are you running 10:5:1 is a little high for 87 can you hear any detonation? If not I think it needs more coolant, meaning more radiator, I stuffed a small heater core under the fender on my 34 just for a test and it ran cooler I had the exact problem you describe with that car, removing the hood would help me but nothing I tried cured it until I gave it more fluid volume aka a bigger radiator..Good luck!

 

I'd suspect a partially clogged radiator. When an engine over heats on the road but not at idle, that usually indicates a partially clogged radiator that can not handle the load anymore. I had it happen to me personally. If you know someone with an infrared remote thermometer you can check for clogs by checking the temps at different locations on the radiator. Cooler spots indicate poor coolant flow. You can still have coolant flow but if any of the tubes are clogged, you have lost cooling capacity that shows up under load but not necessarily at idle.

Keep the manifold vacuum on the Vac Adv. or it will want to heat up in traffic. You can check the archives for posts by C9 that explains it. Unless it is a smog engine used to reduce emissions, manifold vacuum is used for vac adv. systems.

 

I hesitate to even admit this... But it was a shop that did it, I just didn't catch it as soon as I should have...

Make sure the fan isn't on backwords... I'll leave it at that... '60 T-Bird with a built 390...

 

My vote is airflow.... An electric 14" fan to me doesn't sound anywhere near big enough to cool a big block, auto trans, and handle the A/C. My 68 Mustang came from the factory with a 17 1/2" engine driven fan with shroud, the radiator (same size as the 390 that year) was a 24" wide downflow, for a 289 2v with A/C and Auto trans.

It seems to me that your car would probably need at least the equal of what was stock for my 289... I would at least try to borrow a larger electric fan from a buddy and see if that helps.

Edit: If your 14" fan has a full shroud for the rad. it may be limiting airflow at high speeds also.

 

I'm sure this isn't existent on your car, but a frustrated Camaro pilot came over after chasing every possible reason his 350 heated up...the car was idling, and I felt hot air coming forward from the grille. The wire harness had been rewired, and the fan was running backwards. (they had checked 'everything'!) Stuff can happen...

 

All good suggestions... here's one I learned the hard way .... MAKE SURE your bottom radiator hose has a SPRING IN IT .....( can't squeeze it shut with your hand ...)

......jersey Skip

 

Had same problem with 390 w/c6. Switched to griffin alum radiator and edelbrock pump could not overheat afterwords if I tried. Skipprman is right on with bottom hose with a good pump it will collapse. I think the griffin 2 core flowed a lot better with only 2 core and not that expensive from Summit. good luck

 

Did you check to see that the head gaskets were installed right ?
This is real easy to do, look at the front lower end of the head and block area and see if there is a tab protruding the same on both sides. If not it's wrong and the heads need to come off. This is the biggest Ford heating problem I've seen.
Van

 

What you are describing is a classic plugged radiator. Even if the shop says it is clear you will never really know until they pull the tanks and rod it. I have one other thing to add. You may be pushing the water through the radiator tooo fast. Thus not letting it get cool. I would try a different water pump. Also you say the motor is rebuilt. This being said Ford casts their motors in sand and then seals the blocks. When the motor is tanked it will eat the sealer off so when you start to use it very small particles of sand come out and will plug the tubes in the radiator in short order. Get a Gano Filter for this problem.

 

Try using a 160 degree T'stat.. Parts stores do have those for Ford V-8's. Is it possible that air is trapped in the upper end of the motor?? That might be the case and FE's are known for it. When changing the T'stat, fill the coolant ports up before you bolt up the T'stat housing. Hope that helps!

 

I second this ( from experience). You can boil a radiator out from now until dooms-day, but if you don't remove the tanks and properly rod it out, you can lose a lot of capacity and cooling efficiency.

 

Agrees with skipperman, lower hose without a spring equals colapsed hose when hot and driving, the water pump will sqeuze it shut! easiest to check....

 

How about cutting down the % of nitro!

 

Lots of good suggestions above, radiator or air flow maybe both. Here is some odd stuff I found on a 454 I had in a pickup. Not likely your problem but worth mentioning. The upper radiator******* had a sleeve adaptor for the upper hose. It was longer than the******* and was collapsing, reducing flow. And the water pump had a piece of casting that came from lord knows where in the intake side. Both items combined to reduce flow.

B

 

I had a 67 Ford F100 that originally had a 352. In the early years I had the same problems with it overheating.
#1 The thing that the engine hated was antifreeze.I went through different ratios to find the correct mix.I didn't want any rusty water(distilled water also keeps coolant rust free) so I didn't want to run straight water.I ended with about a 1/2 liter of antifreeze.
#2 A 7 blade clutch fan.It didn't have a shroud but the clutch fan was close enough to***** air through the radiator.
#3 A 160 thermostat.I had no luck with the 180-190.
#4 An Overflow recovery tank is also a great help.
I had the truck for over 10 years.It went through engines swaps(cause I wanted more power with C.I.)360 and 390 and kept the same set up. This was my fix when I had the problem.

 

OK guys, a question on the overflow can. Since this radiator came without one (the overflow pipe goes striaght down to the ground), if I install an aoverflow can to catch the water, will the system automatically***** the water back in when it cools or do I need a specific type radiator neck - cap or what?

 

what skipperman said, ditto; the bottom hose WILL***** flat in a heartbeat and will even if it's brand new. i HATE using a bottom hose without a spring inside it.

 

My coupe had similar symptoms, which were solved by changing the radiator cap. It's such a simple thing, but there was no denying the results....

 

And the answer on the overflow question is???????????????