Ok, time to change radiators, as this Griffin wont keep the flattie cool in my 32 Ford. I have done all the tricks, all the coolants, timing,etc etc etc. Time to trade up. I dont think the Griffin has enough to do the job. I didnt see anyone on the Alliance list that does Walkers, unless I missed it. My larger issue is to get one with a dummy filler neck. That seems to be taboo for some reason. Anyone running something else let me know. Regards, Hot and bothered.
Let me see some pictures of your fan setup... the biggest problem I usually see with most hot-rods, customs and muscle cars is that the fan setup isn't drawing enough air through the radiator. Snap-Snap-Click-Click...
Your fan, how close it is to the core (should be as close as 3/8") or shroud, water pump pulley diameter are all big factors. If it runs hot sitting still, It's an air movement issue. Copper/brass radiators like the Walker will not be as efficient as the aluminum. Copper is a more efficient heat dissipater, but it is all held together with solder which greatly reduces the thermal efficiency. The aluminum Griffin is all held together with aluminum, so it processes heat much more efficiently. How long have you had the Griffin? I know the Griffin guys pretty well and may be able to get some help for you.
When does it heat up? Is it fine at speed then not cooling in traffic? Some more details may help sort it out. I have not noticed Griffin or Walker being better than the other if everything is sorted out.
Another thing... how long is the coolant staying in the radiator and are you running thermostat(s) or at least a restrictor. If the coolant doesn't stay in the radiator long enough to cool down... it'll also run hot. We often see people run without a stat for some silly reason?
I beg to differ. The only advantages to using an aluminum radiator are weight and price. Our shop makes 3-row copper/brass radiators. So far not one of the aluminum radiator manufacturers we've offered to windtunnel challenge against our 3-row high efficency radiators have accepted our offer to dispell their "aluminum cools better" claims.
No pics to post. The car does not have a mechanical fan, as there is zero space for it. Electric fan on the rad, puller 2300 rpm, thermostated at 180. Zero shroud room, (water pump pulleys). Fan belt in the Diamond Configuration. Even if I wanted to put a mechanical fan on I cannot, Dont plan on mounting it to the alternator. Zero room for a carrier bearing type. As soon as you slow down on the highway temps climb over 210 and pukes. Today, although our air temps were high 80's, only went 6 ,miles and was wiping coolant off the front end. Parked the car at the event and the guage that was reading 190 on the way down, was well over 210. Same on the drive home. Two weeks ago, it went for 11 miles straight before puking on a normal temp day in the 70's. Didnt want to get into the litany of changes, (thermostats/coolant) as that is getting away from my basic question on the rads. I was down this road earlier with the problem and changing everything but the rad . I dont believe the 2 row one inch core deal is the right application for this radiator. The only comparison I have was my 39 Chevy. Years ago when I first built it, mechanical 10 inch hayden replacement fan for clutch fans, 2 core rad brand new. Fit like a glove. Never cooled the car, good at ilde but go a few miles away it would puke. Put a 5 core Custom Auto Rad in it, never had a problem again. I respect everyones opinion about the time it takes for the coolant to be cooled. I understand the slowing of the coolant through the radiator is part of the process. I cannot imagine if or how the flow is going through this radiator with those two pumps. (cavitation, airpockets etc) I dont think there is an easy fix here beyond changing the rad to one that has the "capacity" to cool.
So does this mean at highway speeds it's fine? If so then it seems with airflow the radiator is working. So either it looks like you need either better airflow or a more efficient radiator, though even with a more efficient radiator you may still heat up in traffic due to airflow.
call be cool radiators! they make a radiator with baffles in it, they call it the desert cooler. they should be able to help. i have one and it works in traffic it the damn heat!
and yea you are right about that! be cool did a comparison and there was no advantage to aluminum other than weight.
Fan shroud is a must... to me without seeing pictures it sounds as though the radiator cools fine during driving (ram air) but with the lack of a shroud you aren't sucking air across the entirity of the radiator core with the puller. Also... I'm not a fan of electric fans... but there are some good ones like the Hayden S-Line... See comments from another thread... Try to shoot some pictures and post them at some point so we can help you sort this out.
2 rows..1 inch???? NO WAY will that work. Go to a COPPER 4 row 3 1/2 inch with 14 fins to the inch and a baffle in the top tank to prevent aereation..Also put a 20 lb pressure cap on it. You can then sit and idle in 100 degree heat all day and never get over 190.
Actually for a sub 300hp flatty he should be fine with it... if it's shrouded properly. Plus he already stated he doesn't have much depth to work with so going thicker with the core size isn't in the cards. A '98 GM pickup with a 5.7L and a/c (has to also draw and remove the heat load from the condenser) uses a 34" wide 1" thick radiator... but it runs a proper shroud, fan blade and clutch to do it right. The radiator in a new ZR1 Corvette isn't very thick... it's just ducted and shrouded properly with a dual fan setup that draws enough cfm. Hell... a GEO metro with a 1.0L engine uses a shroud too. In regards to the cap... for every pound of pressure you add to your radiator cap you increase your boiling point 2 degrees... this is important. It's called a cooling system
I have tried every cap pressure I could try. Experts saying 7lbs. I see on the Walker ordering the refer to a 12 lb. I am aware that higher pressure makes lower water temps. ie. racecars and todays production cars. I will never ever be able to put a shroud in this car period. Electric fans will be the only way as well. I cant imagine putting a fan on the alternator. Not to mention it may be to high to function. When I mention that the car runs cool during the ram effect, that means the temps hover around 200, I dont think that means its cooling. I will email B Cool as well and see what they say, I still am sticking to the rad not being good enough for this engine.
Have you checked the elec fan connections? Maybe its not pushing/pulling like it used to. When was the last time you flushed the system and what mixture of coolant are you using?
On a 32 there is just barely room for a shroud of sorts but it is not needed. Also, there is plenty of room for a 3 1/2 inch core..I have done more than I care to remember.. In designing a radiator with limited square inch frontal area and limited thickness available, Boyle's laws come in quite handy. The radiator I recommended in my previous post is known to work with a 315 ci engine driving in rush hour traffic in 100 degree heat in a 32 coupe. 4 blade racing fan.
That's not quite correct. Higher pressure raises the boiling point of the coolant. It doesn't cause lower coolant temperature. Bob
I think it's a combination of a few things... but I'm holding off posting anything else until I can actually see what we're dealing with here. We get cars in the shop all the time with "cooling issues"... all it takes is opening the hood to figure out what's wrong with 99% of 'em.
and some fans , you have to flip the blades , when you wire it backwards.... no headgasket issues are there? have you tried a different gauge or a gauge out on the motor....i have a small moon temp that goes in to a npt hole in the intake....inside gauge would show the motor going 240 then back to 180...intake gauge would just be up to 180....
Not absolutely true ... BUT ... maybe on your 32 I have a shroud and a big mechanical fan on both my 32 Fords ...
Yup, living zero feet above sea level has the advantage of a 212ºF boiling point, but that's the only advantage. Bob
That's the right way to do it... including the fan clutch. Caught that right away huh? Not that this will work for your application... but as an example one of our suppliers sells this radiator... and a dual fan shroud kit. fan shroud http://www.northernfactory.com/Attachments/attachments/Pdf/Z40103FanSpecs.pdf Walker offers shrouds for theirs as well... see 491-2 http://www.walkerradiatorworks.com/fan_shrouds.cfm My buddy made a very simple sheetmetal shroud for his Hemi powered "A" that's using an electric fan... it works really well and is relatively shallow. The shroud covers the entire core and the fan actually sets inside of it due to his tight clearances.
U.S. Radiator in Vernon (Los Angeles) makes a triple pass rad called the Desert Cooler. I put one in my '40 and never had an overheating issue - even in the Mojave desert.
if its just in the summer try one of these..just follow instructions.........but on a serious note Ive run Walkers for years and never a problem,but always run elec. fan
Is the motor fresh? Internal issues can affect this also. Cam timing , Piston to wall clearances ,Ignition timing just a few extra thoughts lean? Bob
I've used both types of radiators and have never had an aluminum radiator that didn't wind up leaking. I've found most radiator shops are reluctnant to try and repair alum ones but any good radiator shop can repair a copper and brass radiator. I prefer a 3 or 4 row (depending on space), they may be more expensive and weigh more but will basically last forever and will cool just about anything properly. Ask if they have any seconds for your application, they usually knock off good $$$ and you can barely tell the diff. Mongrel
Walker sells this narrow fan w/ shroud. Not cheap but neither is a new radiator. This set-up is 2 5/8 at widest point. I'd bet that narrower than what you are running now (unless it's a pusher).
On Walker vs Griffin I have a Walker in the roadster. I had a Griffin in the 55- and it leaked. The Griffin is not welded- it's epoxy'd. I couldn't find 1 shop that would touch it. No more Griffin's here.
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