what happend here?? cam failure

As far as the zinc in the oil,just go to the the brand name website and click on the data sheets for zinc content in their various grades of oil.There are many brands of oil available at auto parts stores with 1200-1400 PPM of zinc required for flat tappet cams.For instance,Kendall 15-40 Super D has .140 or 1400 PPM.The newest versions of Castrol or Valvoline 15-40 Diesel have as little as 900 ppm.Many 20-50's or even 10-40's have higher zinc than the same brand of 10-30.If you do a little homework there's no need to mail order 10 buck a quart special oil for a typical SBC.

 

ok
here is some more info
oil was 20w50 yellow penzoil
dual springs
lift 479
duration 279
comp cam thrump r

if I wrote everything down right

regards stig

 

The damage looks like much more than I've seen from improper break-in. I agree with those that have offered valve retainer to valve guide (or seal) contact. Something was bottomed out here. Check the pushrods from these positions. Roll them on a flat glass surface, they may not be bent, but likely are.

As far as break-in, what has been posted in this thread is mostly correct. You need to run the engine 2000 - 2200 for at least 20 minutes straight. The purpose is not specifically for increased oil pressure or lifter rotation, although both are helped by the elevated speed, it is simply to reduce the loads at the cam/lifter interface during this critical "wearing in" period. If you were to strain gauge a valve spring, or a pushrod, or use a load washer under a valve spring as I have during engine development, you'd see that nose loads drop quite a bit above 2000 rpm. They get lower as you increase speed, but you don't want to go too high because then the loads increase at opening and closing.

And as others have said, you need to disassemble the engine now and clean out the metal. It's probably nested into a few rod or main bearings. The stock oil filter bypass sends most oil unfiltered back into the engine when the oil is cold.

 

Not only that, they didn't have or use much spring pressure. Valve spring technology has changed dramatically over the last 30 years -- which is why it is now possible to have the radical opening/closing ramps and extreme lifts that you see.

Heck, there are a ton of guys running .650+ lift roller cams on the street! The top-fuel cams of the 50's and into the 60's didn't have that much lift - because they didn't have the springs (and rocker arm/shaft setups) we commonly use today - even on the street.

 

Join the club. Had a comp cam and lifters in a Ford 460BB January 2009 from Summit. Called summit and got a refund on the cam/lifters. Used Comp cams lobe lube and oil additive. Propper valve spring pressure and lifter pre-set. Started engine and started varying RPM but started backfiring in 6 minutes. Pulled engine and it took out rod bearings and crankshaft with all the metal shavings from the lifters.

$2000 later on a engine rebuild went to a Ford Cam /lifters with no issues.

 

I'd like to know what lead him to shutting the the engine down and tearing it apart in the first place? What indicated a problem first, noise, clatter, oil pressure, backfiring, dead cylinder etc. Would also like to see pictures of the lifter bores, and back of the block. On a side note if those lifters are spinning the pushrods should be also. An easy check before failure.

 

I actually break-in all my Y-Blocks on a run-in stand with a set of heads that I built for break-in with old stock springs. I found it easier to change out the heads than to change springs with the heads on the engine, I have a set of copper gaskets that I use for the break-in then reassemble with the heads that will stay with that engine and comp gaskets.

 

Why are people running 15W40 and 20W50 in new or newly-rebuilt engines with tight tolerances, especially during break-in?

I use Brad-Penn 10W30 that I pay $5.00/quart including freight in my typical SBC.

 

it was a strange knocking sound that had him shot it down...didnt sound ok so we opend it up
all lifters spun free in the holes before....now these 2 holes are damaged
grrrrrrrrrrrr
summit offerd 20% discount on new parts............
s

 

did he put anything on the cam before install?did he soak the lifters in oil and pump them up before in stal?did he put breakin lube in oil?if he didnt do any of these its his falt!!!!!also i garantee it told him to break-in cam with only one of the springs,not both!!!!yes this sucks taking it apart and putting other spring on but its too much spring pressure for break-in!!!!

 

Call me silly if you like but I know get my cams nitrited if I buy them from Comp etc. Even the custom hydraulic race cam for my slant six rail. Costs about $110 extra but it prevents this and this is no fun at all. After your cam is gone the $100 will seem like peanuts compared to the mess you are in. I also religiously break my cams in with at least 20 minutes above 2000 RPM and I used addditive and do not swear or drink during the installation and break in. This type of problem was never a big issue for years but now many additives have be eliminated for regular oils, The main lifter manufacturer has stopped making flat tappet lifters. Without a nitrate I find it is at best a crap shoot for most fellows and even the experienced engine builders are occasionally finding a problem. A roller is the unltimate cure but for some engines that is not possible.

 

I've never heard of any problems with Comp cams, but if that damage happened in just 5 miles it was eating itself from initial fire up and I don't believe that lack of Zinc was the culprit maybe lack of lubrication. I'm also not sure if you could attribute that to valve lash being to tight as the valve would stay open. It may also be attributed to not being properly heat treated. I was reading a white paper on the development of the Chrysler Hemi and they were having cam and lifter failures at that very same rate almost instantly until they figured out the heat treat and surface finish. A lot of speed parts are now being made overseas and QC suffers. I would take your lifters to a quality machine shop
in your area and have them Rockwell tested.

 

Today's oil really isn't suited well to flat tappet cams. They need additives like zinc and phosforous. Castrol does have some good oil now with what these older engines need. There are special labels on the cans. bill

 

My machinist in Pennsylvania advised me that Comp Cams are O.K. but not to use their lifters. I got myself some Crower Camsaver lifters and broke my Comp cam in easily with still no problems in 3000 miles. They may have cost me an additional $50.00 more than plain hydraulics. Cheap insurance!
Click here: http://www.crower.com/misc/m_cat.shtml

 

I don't know who Comp buys their cam blanks from but after many long talks with Ron Iskendarian they use CWC, the oldest blank maker in the US. Granted I have never had a cam problem he did say that the metallurgy CWC uses is far superior to any maker in the US let alone over seas makers.

You need to take the cam to a machine shop that has a Rockwell hardness tester and take some lobe and lifter hardness readings. Then take that to Comp and through the book at them assuming you have poor readings.

Cam lobes should be better than 56 RCS like to see 60 and the lifters need to be around 5 points different to prevent galling.

Also the lobe taper and lifter crown is critical to induce lifter rotation.

Either way that amount of damage is more often caused by interference issues and not ZDDP deficiencies.

That oil is the wrong stuff to use.

 

I'm saying there soft chinese low to no crown lifters.