Lookey what I got for a project!! (Hyfire Poly!)

Today was a banner day. This morning, we got the lifters in, mounted the gaskets, put the heads on, got everything aligned just right, and the BEvERage fetcher and I were hitting it out of the park. Yes sir, we were doing just fine. We carefully torqued all the headbolts to spec (40 ft/lbs first pass, then to 85), and in the proper pattern. He could get the 40 ft/lbs, but I had to get the heavier pass. Then we put the pushrods in, stuck on the rocker arm, and got her situated just right. We got the first side bolted up and properly torqued, then started on the other side. We made the first pass on the rocker arm bolts at 15 ft/lbs (1/2 the load), and that's when disaster struck. Yup... we broke a bolt inside the head. FML. I almost cried right then and there, and had to send both of the little ones out of the garage so they wouldn't hear me cursing like a sailor. It looked like it was a little fatigued and worn out. Yeah - it was one of the ones I didn't replace (look at it - it's a real bizarro - three different threaded areas, two different widths, and hollow on the inside), so it just gave out when I barely torqued it. Now I have to pry a broken bolt out of my right head. I'll take any suggestions on how you guys think I should go about that.

I regrouped and tackled another task to take my mind off the pain. The BEvERage fetcher pedaled off with his buddy and so the little one and I put new shoes on Blue. She fetched tools and moved airlines while the neighbor and I jacked the old girl up and stuffed some new creepers under her. To celebrate our small victory (and a larger loss), we got sandwiches and chips from the grocery store and rolled down to the waterfront for a picnic dinner.

The saga of the Hyfire Poly continues... albeit slightly interrupted due to fatigued metal.

 

Those wheels look so much better!

That broken stud looks like a job for an easy out.

And i dont think that you wanna use anti-seize for your lifter lube. Get a tube of lubriplate motor assembly lube. Cheap and great!

 

I'm not a poly expert but I don't think anti-seize is the best assembly lube. It is ground aluminum and copper paste.

 

OK...I hear ya... but my machinist (w/ 50 years experience) said to butter the bottoms of the lifters with a little anti-seize... and to use moly grease on the cam. It's his "secret weapon" for break in, and he swears he hasn't seen a motor come back for excessive cam wear in forever. He may be a little slow on getting my bits done, but he has a fantastic reputation for his work... and he's constantly slammed with business.

And yes, Marty... she looks and rides a HELL of a lot better with the new shoes. My neighbor scuttled away with the old rims for his windsurfing trailer. He traded me beer and labor for them, so it was a pretty square deal. Now, all she needs are some baby moons to pop on, and we'll be in "bidness."

 

OK there Poly/Hemi gurus... help a brother out. I broke this damned bolt off, and now I'm in a pickle. I have searched for a bit on pages like Allpar, Forwardlook, Egge, and others that usually have good tech data/parts, but I can't find any parts listing for the bolt I broke off. It's a funky SOB, with 3 different threads, hollow bottom, and a hole on the side. I doubt it's anything even Tacoma Screw would have around, or be able to manufacture. Where can I go to find this bugger? Do I need to find another Poly engine and filch them off of it? I'd be running the risk of grabbing another weakened/ corroded bolt and shearing it off again, right?

First pic - this bolt, here on the rocker... on the side that went together without a fuss
Second pic - the intact cousin of him what snapped - note 3 different threads
Third pic - hollow base with a single hole about half way up - right at the tip of my thumb.

Once I figure out what it is, I'll need 4 of 'em to replace all the OE bolts that are disasters looking for a place to happen. Is it hollow because it's sitting on an oil passage? I looked at pics of the heads before I assembled them, but can't discern where the passage might be. I'm guessing I'll need to remove the heads to extract the bolt, just so I don't drop metal shavings into an oil passage/gallery and have it sprayed all around the engine at startup. Ugh. Thanks....

 

I would either try an EZ-out,or pull the head and use a left handed drill bit. That is not a joke ! Sears and tool Liquidators sells them. They are cut with a "bass-akwards" pattern so when you drill out the bolt, it starts to back out of the hole. They work great.
Where you at in Taco-town? I'm over by Manitou park.

 

I have 38 years of broken bolt removal practice. I would use a E Z out w/ a T handle tap wench. Use a EZ out that fits snug in the hole. If the EZ out does not grab at first, tap down on the EZ out w/ a hammer. Use a lot of TLC and take your time. If you are worried about metal chips, use a little grease on the EZ out.
Good luck; Bob

 

After a rough few days at work, I went out into the garage, cracked a beer, turned up the stereo, and got greasy. I got the busted bolt out tonight, and maybe breaking it off was a mixed blessing. I took the heads off and coaxed it out without too much pain. Once I did, I shone a light down the oil passage it sits on - and recoiled in horror. The passage looked like the arteries of an 85 year old smoker that eats bacon for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Yuck! I guess somebody missed that spot when they were cleaning up the heads! I got out my trusty GI bore brush kit and went to town on it. Take a look at what flew out of the passage! It made me realize the other head is probably similarly clogged... so that'll have to come off as well. Joy. I checked the passage in the block, and it didn't look bad, but I reamed it out as well... just in case! Then, just to make myself feel better/ get motivated, I put a few pieces on the block to mock it up. Inspiration complete... now off to bed.

 

those have to be the oil passages for the rocker shafts.
If you cant find them bolts or something similar you might have to run a bypass line from a known oil passage to the rocker or drill into the passage parralell to the hole and rout the oil passage next to the bolt but not RIGHT next to it.
I don't think you'd need 3 different threads if you had to mod it. you might be able to find something similar or a little bigger where you'd have to retap the head and drill the rocker pedestal. try ARP customer service you never know maybe they've tackled that problem already

 

Are some projects just *&^%$# jinxed? I got the carbs mounted on the intake, and started sealing up what I could without one of the crucial bolts in the valvetrain. So I decided to at least mount up the exhaust manifolds while I had some time this evening. I got the gaskets on, lined everything up, and finger tightened the bolts. After letting the permatex cure for an hour, I made a gentle pass at 20 ft/lbs, just to snug it down a little. The driver's side went on just fine. I spun the engine a bit and did the passenger's side, the one I busted that funky bolt on. Everything snugged down just fine. A few seconds later, as I was standing there with the torque wrench, dialing it up to 40 ft/lbs, I heard a nasty metallic pop/crack. My right manifold broke right along where Fred had rewelded it. FML. I'm going to have to go find a donor Poly motor somewhere and keep it in the garage for when (not if) I break more parts. This sh*t is just getting ridiculous! Ugh... more delays.

 

Ihappen to have an exhaust manifold that I removed for some guy who never bought it. Came off of a '55 Plymouth 259. It's the one with the genorator mount cast on to it. But that mount could be cut off if you want and it would be a nice center dumo sort of a Rams horn manifold. Could take a picture if you want $25 + ship.

 

Wolfhound, you're doing a great job considering all of the delays you've encountered. Persistence is the word, looking great! Can't wait to see the engine finished.

 

Here's my 1955 Plymouth P27 with Dodge hemi heads. Went together like a snap! (actually nothing snapped.) Richard

 

Rich - yup, that's the one I broke. PM sent.

Farmer - thanks for the encouragement. I know that 55 year old metal sometimes breaks, it's just one damned thing after another on that side of the engine!

rbmain - torture... pure torture. Yours goes together like the BEvERage fetcher's legos, and mine is a royal crown beast! Thanks for the pics!

 

Pete, the new break is not at all uncommon if the manifold was welded while not bolted to a head or very thick plate. The option is to surface the gasket face after welding. It has to be dead flat, but, it can and often will break the first time it gets up to operating temp.

A replacement manifold is usually easier than repairing a crack and less stressfull for the human involved......just be sure to have it surfaced.
FWIW, I have header flanges for the Dodge Poly.


Gary

Sua Sponte

 

Here it is in all it's glory. On the wrong side because that is the side thats out. Dirt and grease included, no extra charge. No cracks.

 

Rich,

Done deal! Box and ship, grease and all! If you have any of those rocker arm bolts (the hollow ones that sit on the oil passage), I'd be willing to buy them as well!!! PM with details sent...

-Pete

 

Score!

 

OK manifold and water neck in box and by the door. Waiting for an address to ship it to. And $$$. I have plans for the Poly someday. (Heard that before) so I need to keep the bolts. RF

 

Rich - PM , address and Paypal sent. You're a lifesaver.

 

Starting to look a little better... I got the manifold at UPS this morning, and got it over to my sandblaster right after. I should pick it up after lunch. I also managed to (finally) track down a machinist willing to make me a batch of rocker arm bolts - the funky one I broke! I'm having 4 new alloy steel ones made for my engine, and I'm having a few extras made for my Poly guys. When it's all said and done, they'll be about $20 each. Not cheap, but what the heck can you do? With all the rain going on, I might just get some time in the garage!

 

Looking foward to seeing what that manifold looks like with all the crud blasted off.

 

Thanks Rich - prompt save on your part, and the Hyfire project is moving forward again.

Feast your eyes on this! I picked it up at the UPS depot this morning, dropped it off at my favorite sandblaster, went to lunch, then went and picked it back up. It was damned near spotless. A few minutes with a wire wheel to get some of the nooks and crannies he didn't get, and then a few quick coats of hi-temp silver paint to match the old one...and Voila! She's a beaut!

Now all I need to do is get another exhaust gasket and I'll be back in business. Oh, and I need to get the rocker shaft bolts back from the machinist too!

 

Glad it found a good home.

 

Stopped by the machine shop today on the way home and picked up some custom made rocker arm bolts for my Hyfire. Yes, I only need 4 for my purposes, but there are others out there who can benefit from my stash of extra goodies. It turns out that Bill was able to set up the machinery quicker than he thought, and was able to crank out more than he originally estimated for the 2 hours he put into it. These are made from 4140 steel, so they REALLY shouldn't break at 15 ft/lbs of torque. Then again, the old one was 55, and had obviously seen some hard use. The in-laws are here this weekend, but I should be able to sneak out to the garage for a bit after church on Sunday.

Gary - I have 4 bolts standing by to send to Ory-gun for your Hyfire rebuild... send a PM for mailing addr, and we'll get them headed your way.

 

I had a few hours this afternoon and managed to stick some stuff together in the garage. Whew. It's finally starting to look like an engine! The newly machined bolts fit like a glove, and the Hyfire project is back on track. I got the rocker arms back on, added the timing cover, and mounted the oil pan. Now all I need is another exhaust gasket (on order) to show up and we'll be cooking with gas!

 

A few more bits knocked together today. I had to cross off a BUNCH of stuff on the "honey-do" list before I got some time in the garage, but it was time well spent. I finished cleaning up my dizzy to prep it for its new Pertronix guts, and I got the water pump put back together again. With a little more work, I might be able to get it back on the engine one night this week. Another tip from a fellow HAMBer (and brother Bishop) - put thread tape on all the bolts going into water passages. Good things I have wise ones helping me out...Thanks Marty!

 

That plymouth is the exact duplicate of my high school car down to the color. Yours should motivate a little better with that engine. I just had the flathead 6 with an edmunds dual carb intake on it. I'm interested to see how this comes out.

 

I believe the color is "Chevron Blue," but I might be mistaken. I was going to just hop up the flathead-6 (dual intake, split the exhaust manifold, freshen its 60 year old guts up a bit), but I found an article on stuffing a smallblock MOPAR into a '49... and then stumbled across a '55 Poly motor that looked too cool NOT to rebuild. A year and a few $$ later, I'm still plugging away at it!

 

Hey Pete, good to see that you are moving into the home stretch!

You may have already mentioned this but I could not recall, are you planning to use the original front mount or fabbing up something special?


Sua Sponte

Gary