In 1963, If you sat down with a car dealer...

Hmmm, if I was around in 62 and had some mad cash burning a hole in my pocket I think I'd go down to the local Studebaker dealer and buy a green two door Studebaker Lark station wagon. It would have the 259 V-8 3 speed with overdrive.

 

There were no 425 HP Dual Quad 409's produced in 1965. It was an early year production that only came with a single AFB 4 BBL carb. The 409 era died in early 1965 and the 396 replaced it.

25 years ago i spent way too much time researching the Muscle Car era - especially the years from 1961 - 1972 (even though the 64 GTO "technically" started it all) . In 1988 my best friend and i were asked by Jim McGowan to be one of 12 judges at the Western Regional Muscle Car Nationals at Famosa Raceway (Bakersfield) . As far as "Ordering special parts" , "over the counter parts" , "back door options" , ordering cars/engines/parts that were not listed on "Dealer Option sheets" this is what i can tell you from personal research and also talking to people over the years like Jim McGowan,Jim Wangers, Donald Yenko,Jess Tyree, and Otis Chandler.

The average person that walked in to most American dealerships back in the 60's had a harder time ordering outrageous race prepped cars . This isn't to say that one with a thick wallet couldn't order a full on performance car - big difference in my opinion. I feel that there were exceptions (by the mid to late 60's) with dealerships such as Ace Wilson's Royal Pontiac, Yenko Chevrolet, Rod Tyler Ford, and Grand Spaulding Dodge . These fella's catered to the motor head and it is written that some of these dealerships Parts Departments resembled "Speed Shops" . I was told by reputable people that many dealerships finally had to have buyers sign a "NO warranty" waver when purchasing a full on street/strip car. To of been able to purchase an 11 - 12 second 1/4 car with a set of mounted Casler slicks in the trunk must of been something! I know someone with a red on red 64 Plymouth Fury with a 426 Max Wedge engine - sticker on the dash reads "due to the gearing in this special car - excessive highway driving is not recommended" . Another person i know owns a real 62 aluminum front end Catalina SD car which dash sticker reads "This car is factory equipped with aluminum manifolds and should not be driven longer than 14 seconds" . Those were the days!

 

And there's one of the GTO experts that I spoke of in the previous post. He even came out of the woodwork after I mentioned that they would say this. Perfect example.


Its in Wyandot County today, unless its been sold. I have seen the build sheet.But you no doubt know more of the car people aroud here than I do.

On the big block thing before I jump off and offend the rest of the Pontiac experts maybe you could clue me what is the proper distinction between the 326 and the 389 up or the 350/400 and the bigger engine.

 

Porkn******, There is no external distinction between the Pontiac V8 engines. The Bore & Stroke is what differentiate's all of the engines, and a 1955 287 " engine looks the same as a 1970 455. So, there is no such thing as a Big Block or Small Block Poncho.

 

AXLE; yes !!! those WERE the days ..you didn't mention Baldwin-Motion ,,Fred Gibb,,that MOPAR Dealer in Chi-Town ,,What's his name ? and the Pontiac Dealer in Texas ,,his son campained a Race Poncho for years ,,can't remember their name either ,,shoot ,,old age you see ,,CRS ?? lol,,lol

 

AXLE; the '55 Pontiacs were 247 cubes ,,not 287 ,,Typo ???

 

OOPS !! talk about a typo ,,the '57 Ponchos were 347 Cubes ,,

 

Axel,
I wasn't aware, so I can bolt 389 heads on a 326 or a 400?

Not being arguementative just want to know. I'm old but not opposed to learning something new to me.

 

Over the years ,,I've had a '55 Star Chief ,,a '57 Bonneville,,a '64 GTO 389 / tri-power 4 speed ,,a '66 LeMans ,326 two barrell 4-speed anna '66 GTO 389 single 4 --4 speed,,,in '69 i wanted the Orange GTO Judge the dealer had on his showroom floor ,,the one n only Judge in Alaska ,,but ,,my best friend ,Steve Deptula bought it the day before i could get to the dealer ,,SO ,,i bought my orange SS396 Chevelle instead ,,

 

Yes they were.

1955 = 287
1956 = 316
1957 = 347
1958 = 370
1959 = 389

 

Yes, thats right - you can swap heads - for the most part.

Its the intake manifolds thats have differences. 65 on up is straight across bolt pattern. Pre 65 has staggered bolt pattern.

Back to the topic at hand - performance dealerships

 

AXLE: Ah !!! ,,even tho i'm 67 years young ,,i still learn sumthin' new ,,,great info ,,thanks ,,
bill

 

This is Stock Eliminator Finals ,,1966 at Polar DragWay ,Alaska ,,i'm in the Red GTO ,,my buddy in the Black one was cheatin' just a little ,,had a 421 in it ,but,,had the 389 Tri-Power on it ,,it had a heating problem ,,the intake cooling runs don't match up with the 421 heads very good,,and i knew it ,,i helped put his motor together ,,SO ,,i stalled a bunch before staging ,,with a flagman ,and no X-Mas Tree ,,i could and did get away with it ,,,i ran a 13;20 to his 13;40 ,,his motor temp was over 230 at the launch ,,mine was 180 ,,lol,,lol,,
NO,,that's NOT a factory white stripe ,,i painted that on there ,,

 

check out this thread... we kinda hashed out what you were asking on the first post...
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=400589

 

I have 350 heads on my 455.

And a 400 intake. Don't remember what the oil pan is from, one of the 3.
Intakes from different cid swap without cooling issues..................


Endure front clip does not a GTO make.


I can make a do***ent, and print a certificate of authenticity for it.

It is not a GTO wagon unless PHS says it is.

David

 

GAY PONTIAC,..Don Gay was a natoinal record holder..Don had a son killed while racing

 

exasred; Yes,,,Gay Pontiac,,,thanks ,,him and his son were Great Racers ,!!!

 

texasred; sorry ,,the "T" didn't get on there ,,thanks again for reminding me of Don Gay Pontiac ,,

 

so tell me Irv - when is that new Hemi coming out...and when can I get one in a Savoy?

 

The guy is old and I saw the build sheet before everyone owned a computer.

I never said it was a GTO just a wagon with an entire GTO trim package and a large engine with 4 speed. That and that if you posted that information on a GTO forum that the GTO guys would all say that it never happened. Actually I know of 2 one was pictured in Hot Rod magazine in the 90s and they ***ured that it also had the proper do***entation.

I was trying to make a point that if you posted asking on a forum of experts if something had ever been done that nearly all in one accord would say no. I always thought that my english was moderately clear. I guess it isn't. But I have proved my point. I'm glad that I chose that example, I was going to use the example about the '54 Wagon with the Blue Flame with export package and stick from the factory but I wouldn't have had as many takers on that one I'm sure.

One other thing having been there in the later '60s and '70s actually the trim package does a GTO make. By that time from GM, SS, GTO, etc was a trim package. You could order a performance package, but if you didn't or didn't just happen to get lucky at the dealership and get a performance vehicle what you got was a trim package. Sorry to pop your ballon.

Never the less I did learn something that I wasn't aware of and I appreciate that.

 

Or you could wait 37 years and make your own. Our Milenium project
1963 Dodge Max Wedge

 

they didn't have 4wd bbc trucks until 87

 

DON GAY jr got burned at bandimere and retired
Though he recovered fully from his injuries, Gay did not return to active compe***ion.

 

My pops worked fro the Olds/Pontiac dealer in Brookings SD in 69. The other local hotshoe in Div 5 already had the Pncho sponsorship sealed up so dad became a Rocketman. He got the full acess to ordering a factory F85 with deletes and performance options that most ordinary folks did not think existed. Sat down with teh regional rep and ordered a brand new drag car, dealership kicked in a tow vehicle. All paid for by Dr Olds

 

sorry my dad had a 3/4 ton chevy with a factory 402 I was with him when he picked up from the chevy dealership in longview. ( 71 )

 

My not be far fetch, these letters come to mind COPO.

 

I have to think that must have been a 2wd.


Back in 1975 I tried getting pieces to put a 396 to fit a 69 4x4 pickup, and the exhaust manifold was a big problem....Gm dealer did not have the part available , because they never made BBC 4x4 through those years. Big blocks are not rare in 69 up 2wd pickups though. The 2wd manifold would not work on one side. Closest I could find to fit was Vette.

 

in 1963 when my dad went down and got his new belair (327-pg & factory air) company car,I got a toy promo car and a poster for my bedroom wall.......very cool for a 7 year old kid,hell it would be cool at 54...................

 

is that the run the snake pulled him from the car when Don was knocked out

 

How would blazers have been any different than a k10? Y'all must have really beat those trucks to kill a turbo 400 with 210 (net) horsepower