two guys around here who are certified and welders, fabricators and have shops charge $50 and $65 an hour.
I think that it gets down to the cost of living where you are working. I have lived in the same town as DualQuad55, and I can tell you that lease rates there are about 50% of what they are where I am right now. While I will agree with him that many jobs should be a flat-rate, but on many truly custom jobs, there is simply no way to fully forecast all of time and materials. Eating the difference might be the only thing you get to eat here. As SakowskiMotors says, it is what you get for the money, to a certain extent. There is a floor for what you can charge and survive. Johnny K. and I are in the same commercial market. My stuff is pretty good, and my customers are happy, but, I think my stuff looks like it was built by a developmentally-disabled gorilla when it is parked next to Johnny's stuff. We still get to pay ostensibly the same lease rates.
The lower the rate, the more explaining you have to do. It attracts mouthbreathers. One shop I worked for, the owner was worried about raising the rates. Turns out that it caused our 2 worst customers to leave, and a few more to come in.
Excellent thread, and to add to it, why is it that the customers that want to save money/time are a pain and u should charge more, and the customers that are willing to pay u will have no problem in throwing in a few extras?
Since I retired from my 9-5 job I have been working out of a small shop and charging $40/hr. No sign out front and only fellow club members for the time being...guys that couldn't afford the prices of the big shops. I made $65/hr before I retired so there's no way that I could eat on $40. If you do quality work people are more than happy to pay whatever you charge...the challenge is building the rep that gets you recognized as one of the top performers.
Today I planned and built a kind of cool and unique throttle linkage for my 39, it took nearly 7 hours, If I were to build another (similar) one it would take me less than 3 hours, but still, one off work sometimes takes a while. So, if a customer was paying, the charge might be as much as (or more than) $700 for one single setup? If I had to pay that bill I would shit.... But I wish I had me a customer who would pay me $100 an hour on a long, long project. It would make me so happy.
I don't mind paying working people a fair wage. The do-nothings in the office that run up the overhead are another issue. Notice that I didn't say everyone in the office is unproductive, but there sure are a lot of worthless nephews on payrolls around here. Maybe it's just the times and Houston.........slide
Now I know Im going to start something here but why would you charge less just because your overhead is cheap. I understand the guys that are just trying to make a few extra bucks on the side. But if a guy has a full blown business and he is working out his shop in the Back 40 feet producing the same quality work as a big shop why should he charge less.
Stealership is 100-120 for german car. What I don't understand is how it can be worth it to do stuff for 35 an hour. No wonder these backyard shops burn down and don't have insurance if that's all they're getting! My LA attitude is I don't want to go anywhere cheap for anything. The crowd will be ruff, the service shiite, and quality mediocre. Plus my car might get broken into or someone starts a fight. Most of the time, you really do get what you pay for, at least around here.
Where I am, there are a few shade-tree folks, some retirees, some of undocumented entry, who do decent quality work, at severely discounted rates. Man, I wish they would stop. I don't have a day-job that covers my "evening" overhead, a retirement fund, or live 14 to a 2-bedroom apartment, sleeping in shifts. I can't compete with those folks. A persons "couple of extra bucks on the side" could put someone else out of business, either through taking the business, or forcing a lowering of the labor rates. This is a downward spiral that will eventually affect us all in the form of a reduced standard of living and quality of life.
Marketing 101 perspective: They contacted you because of your rates, consider that in your response. Also think about natural price points. Counter with $45/hour - your "Premium rate for the level of service their vehicles deserve."
That's what I was going to say. If you have a business license, product liability insurance and permits, you need to charge what the big shops do. I get $75 for in shop work and $150 for outside portable stuff and that gets adjusted up for special jobs. As a side note, if you do not have product liability insurance, you could lose your ass big time if a job goes bad.
They contacted you because your rate in Craigslist...if they wanted to pay full dealer price they would have gone there. I am all for making the most money you can but realize you can raise your rates to the point where there will be no takers. They approached you for work for a reason. Price would definately be one. If you advertise on Craigslist you need to be competative. People who go to Craigslist go there because they can't or will not pay garage prices. If you have a garage charge what you need to survice. But, if you are developing a niche business though personal service and honest prices then no your rate is not too expensive. I see a lot of people say I won't work for anything less than X. These people who are charging lower for work are running people out of business. I can understand them but you have to look out for you and your family. Charge reasonable rates and provide good service then you will get ahead. Charge a lot of provide a little and you will go out of business like some people above.
Licenses, permits, and insurance are what make the distinction here. The folks who I have previously mentioned do not have any of these. I have to account for and pay for my entire emissions and waste stream from my business operation. It has to be a safe, and lawful operation. The folks who do it for a lot less don't have or do these things. I see people clandestinely spraying paint on cars on dead-end streets, and dumping coolant, solvent, tires, and waste oil all over the place, etc. I see other actual shops paying less than minimum wage, having no safety equipment, and carrying no workman's compensation insurance. That is largely where the cost savings come from. "Charge reasonable rates and provide good service then you will get ahead." Maybe that should be: charge responsible rates and provide good service then you will get ahead. Seeing what some people do under the pretense of saving money sickens me. Not only is it bad for the environment and the people involved, but it displays to the public that "those car people" are dirty, horrible criminals, about which, something should be done.
I understand your position but the question was from a gentleman providing a service to a Car Club, not operating a garage. It is a assumption that: 1. He is asked to be a mechanic for the club where he would come to their garage to perform the service for individual club members. 2. As a decent human being, he will take any consumables and waste products and recycle them accordingly. 3. Liability insurance for mechanic work is not for the work itself, it is for the property and accident potential which would be covered by the owner of the property that he is doing work at. (The same as if you were mowing someones lawn) I believe he would fall under the same type of sevice as Mobile Lock Smith, Mobile Glass repair, Mobile Computer Repair, etc. They can offer cheaper services because they are most often a one man or family operation. Just because someone is providing a service for cheaper due to lower overhead does not make them irresponsible. I believe there is a place for responsible mobile mechanics and garages. I believe it is all about personal responsibility because I have know garages that charge a lot and treat the environment like crap. I am proud that there are people in America like gimpyshotrods because you seem like a responsible American, but I believe there is also room for the One Man honest, hustler who is trying to make money, too.
"3. Liability insurance for mechanic work is not for the work itself, it is for the property and accident potential which would be covered by the owner of the property that he is doing work at. (The same as if you were mowing someones lawn)" WRONG...If you do a job for someone, say replace a tie rod end, it falls apart because you did not adjust it right and the car is involved in a head on crash, buddy, you are in deep trouble and could end up in the poor house or even less than that. This is why many shops that have insurance will not do aftermarket seat belt installations and certain other saftey mods. Chalk it up to all the idiots that we elected to govt. office.
Quote: Originally Posted by SakowskiMotors really, shop rate means nothing. It is what is done for the money. Funny thing is that guys that are real good might charge $80 an hour and do it 4 times as fast as an okay guy ( 80 by 4 = 20 an hour fair ) but then it looks 4 times as good by the great guy verse the okay guy. So 20 by 4 is $5 an hour is what the okay guy should charge verse the great guys 80. Crazy thing is there is this much difference in people's work, even in people's work where both guys have been doing it for 20 years each, and are both certified in all. What is my point? What you can do and the quality of it should determine the per hour. Quote: Originally Posted by johnnykck At $35 per hour I would have shut my shop down, $35 per hour is roughly $5600 per month, take out 15% for taxes and fee's that leaves you $4760. That is if you can bill 40 hours a week, most of the time you have to work at least 50 hours a week to be able to bill 40. The overhead cost for my shop is about $2600, my house cost me $1700 per month that leaves $460 a month to pay for gasoline, buy tools with, and cover the cost of living. I have to make at least $60 per hour on average to be able to live and not have to worry about not making ends meet in a slow month or if I get sick for a week. Living in California is very expensive. Most shops in the area that I live in charge between $75 and $120 per hour. If you take your car/motorcycle to a dealer ship here you pay $90 to $140 per hour for standard service and repair work, but some people seem to have a hard time paying the same for Custom/Fab work. These two guys definitely know what's going on... i think i will have the sign guy next door make me signs of both statements to hang in the office of my shop!! time to start worrying about paying off the IRS, and providing for my family , instead of being a good helpful hotrodder!!!!!!!!!! glad i opened this thread, maybe it will help me screw my head on straight! thank you!!! dave
Fwiw I was at lars today and a rod shop was charging between 45-75/hr. depending on skill level required for the job. They specialized in woodies. Work looked good.
It's all what your willing to live with at the end of the day. Some have simpler lives than others and less expenses. I run a small shop, my wife and I along with my two kids. I just try to be fair, that's what keeps people coming back in my opinion. I can't possibly compete against a guy working for $10 an hour working our of his garage on a Saturday afternoon for extra cash. The old saying is often true, you get what you pay for. The one thing you don't want to be known as, "The cheapest guy in town." That's the way people will eventually treat you, even if your services are superior to others. Dashman's Hot Rod & Speed Parts www.dashman.net
Might be right. Trouble is, I don't know what to do next. It seems whatever I pick gets outsourced, off-shored, rendered obsolete, or otherwise legislated out of existence.
I certainly feel for you, I have a few fly-by-night operations in Hill Billy Land where I live. They are all under the table, running two books, and have the attitude: "don't let the door hit you on the way out" when people are not happy with their work. Yet they still have a good size customer base that is hard to ignore, I often get an overflow from their own customers. But after dealing with a few of them, I tell you what, these shops can keep their business. I think certain operations attract certain kinds of people, those that will always want something for nothing, and try to chisel you down no matter how good you treat them. Dashman's Hot Rod & Speed Parts www.dashman.net
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