I'm going to do a 'cozy' side-by-side two-person cockpit, with just enough room in the right passenger seat for a ride around the block. I'm planning on lots of miles with the three-wheeler, including some long road trips away from the interstates. My locale, Sonoma County in NorCal, has some of the greatest low-traffic two-lane twisty country roads in the western US, so short sprints are fun and easy on a daily basis. Great handling and ride performance are paramount with this car/bike and we're counting on spending some time sorting it out once it's on the road. I have no concerns about reliability; I've been involved with Honda since 1960, when they first entered the US market, and provided me with my first super-reliable race bike. With motorcycle tires operating at car-like slip angles rather than banking through turns I'll feel more comfortable carrying a spare -- plus it adds to the old-timey look. I think the Speedway kit could be adapted easily enough. Leaf springs are great to work with when it comes to tailoring ride and handling characteristics. Have you thought about turning the V-twin sideways and parking it out front like they did with the J.A.P.s and Matchless V-twins on the Morgans? Sure would lots of eye candy to your ride. BTW, thanks for posting the BRA kit. I haven't seen it but will check it out. Mike "The need's for three!"
I know this is more Horseless Carriage than Cyclecar, but this link is still interesting all the same http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=...AEwATgo#v=onepage&q=plywood car plans&f=false
av8, great to hear Sonoma's still a paradise, especially at this time of year, as I recall, One of the things a lot of cyclecar builders did was stagger the driver and passenger seats, with the latter slightly to the rear. Amilcar was one of the marques that had that set up way back when and it allowed for a narrow body and decent shoulder room for passengers. Interesting your comment about motorcycle tyres. A sidecar combo has the same issues and yet one can get decent milages out of a set of hides. I know, I've run a 'chair for a dozen years. There are still sidecar tyres available from Avon, I think, but any decent brand should do the job. In saying that, I think having a spare is a good idea anyway... What about using a Honda CX engine/driveline? It's a transverse V-Twin (a'la Moto Guzzi) with a shaft drive. I was thinking about the possibilities of using one of these, yesterday, as the bikes are pretty easily found in NZ and are cheap to buy. There was a turbo version as well.
Thanks for the heads-up, Jack, but I'm generally a respectful sort. I also have a fondness for Kiwis so was happy to read a direct message from one. I met Burt Munro in the mid-'60s when I was tech editor at Cycle World magazine. Around the same time I met Ian Ward and his family; Ian was the NZ-ACU chief steward for South Island at the time. All very neat, nice, and interesting folk, so personable that one came to feeling like they were old friends even knowing them for such a short time. Mike
Kiwis are like that, Mike... I started visiting the country 35 years ago (via some NZ hot rodders who were looking for a pen pal, Stateside) and ended up basing myself here since '81.
In the two-man days of American racing the staggered seat arrangement was popular as well. I've thought about using this scheme in some old-style car projects. I may consider some accommodations along that line, but I'm not eager to encourage passengers for long trips; I don't want to hear about their discomfort and pain during a day that was pleasant for me, with some knocks and twists along the way which I'm willing to endure. That said, the staggered seat arrangement looks nifty and very purposeful. I've been looking at sidecar tires, and it just comes down to getting the sizes I need. Thanks for the encouragement. My shop partner, Kent Fuller, who is also my build guru for most projects, has a CX650T engine, sitting on a palette on the mezzanine in our shop, that he has been wanting to use in a three-wheeler project. I wouldn't be surprised to see this turbo Honda in a trike of some description, a couple of builds down the road. Mike
Did you see this pedal/cycle car? Posted on another thread here by (I think) T-Head. Wrong: 'twas Twin6. No slight was intended to either party. BTB, the thread is on pre-WWII photos.
Mike, that's one heck of a guy to share a shop with! Kent was one of my childhood heroes back when he was building rails for Tommy Ivo et al.
Aside from sharing his expertise and problem-solving genius, Fuller is a wealth of information and personal recollections of friendships, partnerships, and general shenanigans of the pantheon of traditional drag-racing and hot-rodding gods. Great stuff! Mike
I hope you're recording all he's telling you. It's that first-hand history and experience that is often lost. I'd wished I'd done so with the old guys I hung around when I was a kid in SoCal, as a lot of it is now only my recollections of what they told me over the years, and my memory is not as encyclopaedic as it used to be... it's still better than a lot but the data's a lot harder to retrieve these days!
i have had the opportunity to meet him a few times. he is ridiculously talented and a pleasure to deal with. every time he starts talking i feel like i should be taking notes!
Mike, the BRA company http://www.bra-cars.com/ offers 3 Whl. kits in a couple of configs.. One uses Citroen components and another uses the powerplant from the Honda CX line. The CX650T I'm asuming is turbo? I would hope because the engine from the GL500 I used to ride I think would take some of the spirit out of a 3 whlr., what with all the additional weight. I actually don't like the looks of the engine handing out in the breeze although it would more resemble the Moogie. I picked the Vulcan 1500 because it's water cooled and I can stow the engine under the bonnet and also because the shaft emerges from the left side thereby offsetting the engine's weight somewhat to the passenger side lending better balance for those times driving alone. I guess I didn't really expect that you would make an untoward comment to the Good Sister. It was meant to point up the fact that she is indeed a Sister; some posters seemed surprised that her avatar was more than a cool image. Then too, I'm trying to boost my post count. Duh, I just noticed your post did say "turbo". Also, It dawned on me why the name Burt Munro sounded familiar. He was the man protrayed by Anthony Hopkins in The World's Fastest Indian. Did you meet him before or after his Bonneville experience? Folks, we're in good company here with AV8 Mike.
We're kicking around some ideas for sharing his stories on a timely basis rather than put them together as a book at some time in the future. So many of Fuller's vignettes on the past come out of discussions of things we're currently involved with, and I think there is considerable value in the historical perspective to current work. Mike
" . . . ridiculously talented . . ." I like that! His work on projects outside the hot-rod and drag-racing communities alone would be sufficient to rate him national-treasure status in most countries. Have you seen the Franay Bentley he restored and the H-16 Bentley cabriolet he engineered and built for Gary Wales? Spectacular world-class automobiles . . . Mike
Jack -- I gotta agree about some of the motors hung out on the front of three-wheelers. The Honda CX-series motors look a bit clunky, as do the Guzzi and Citroen lumps. BTW, the Honda CX650 T turbo punches out about double the ponies of he normally aspirated 500 version, so I think Fuller will have a spirited driver if that's what he opts to build. You've obviously done your homework, and I think your proposed three-wheeler is not only well reasoned, it looks to be a handsome as well as straightforward build. Basing a trike on an engineered, fully sorted production drive train makes excellent sense -- the same reasoning I employed for selecting the Honda Goldwing boxer scheme. Mike
Well, I ran into Mr. B a few years ago on the RRT forum and I know of some of his credentials; his Tardel association and work in periodicals anyway. I have to say I'm just a little awestruck to be comparing notes (even enjoying complementary criticism) on a similar, fairly obscure, build with the likes of Mike. Ernie, I have to mention too, that your collection of data on the T5 was an enormous help on the swap for my `63 C-10; direct replies to my posted questions, as well. Thanks. Mike, I was hoping to hear some details on meeting Burt Munro in the 60's.
I'm no big deal, Jack, just an eager student of all this gearheadedness that lights our fires, and always willing to learn and to share. I met Burt in 1968, when I was at Cycle World magazine, and that meeting grew into a matrix of other acquaintances and friendships that carried up to the present. That's a tale I look forward to unraveling and sharing soon. In the meantime, I have some great Kent Fuller stories I'm working on and will be sharing straightaway.
Mike here's pics of power reverse fabbing on a 3 whlr. The back wheel looks like from a Gold or Silverwing.
That's the type of 'reverser' Fuller has been talking about. Thanks for the pics. The roller couldn't be much better for contact area with the rear tire. Looks like it might be a piece from an industrial conveyor belt, or maybe a keel roller for a boat trailer. Neat. The Goldwing rear drive and suspension seems perfect for a three-wheeler project, particularly so when it has the air-adjustable option. My donor Goldwing is a two-shock model, and I think it's going to be just fine. I did go 'shopping' for a compound-arm single 'suspender' rear end because of how easy it would be to increase tire cross-section (and contact patch) for added traction. The one shown was new and complete and went for about $450 on eBay -- a bargain for what amounts to more than $2K if purchased a piece at a time, although I didn't buy it. I'm thinking we can do some trimming and reinforcing on the insides of a two-shock arm to get some extra tire clearance for a couple of bucks worth of material, cover gas and wire if we need it . . . but that mono-shock piece is sure neat.
<link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5COWNERY%7E1.000%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <wunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <wontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Garamond; panose-1:2 2 4 4 3 3 1 1 8 3; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:roman; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:647 0 0 0 159 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:Garamond; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> Coincidental to reading this post about av8's shop-mate Kent Fuller, I happened on a bundle of old car magazines I'd tied up and set aside literally decades ago. One magazine, titled "Hot Rod Ideas," included an article about the aforementioned Mr. Fuller. Copyright date on the mag is 1961. (Bought it off the news stand when I was in high school; archived it for future reference!) Either Mr. Fuller was a prodigy or he's now an old dude. Probably both! <o> </o>
Mad or what ...........! .............runs on methanol...seems to have 'lost' it's passenger ............. . .
The Jalopy Journal
