History Auto racing 1894-1942

Just to clarify - Keith's picture shows the re-created R12C. There is however an error regarding the colours in the text on the Hodgkinson site.

R12C is presented as it raced in 1938 - in plain "Bira blue" with chrome wheels. For 1939 the chassis rails and wheels were repainted yellow, after those colours were adopted as the Siamese international racing colours. Before 1939 Bira had raced on a British licence, as Siam wasn't affiliated to the AIACR, so Hodgkinson is incorrect in stating that it was blue and yellow in 1938.

R12B carries the Siamese colours, as it has been restored to the way it looked in 1946-47.

Chula's book about the 1939 and 1946 seasons is of course called "Blue and Yellow": QED.

 

Here's a photo for all the NASCAR fans, past and present.

Milt Marion plowing the sand at the 1936 Daytona Beach 250.

 

Vit,

So what's the story with the Porsche front suspension?

 

Honestly no idea. The Zoller blower was the real step forward on those cars. I'm not sure Bira actually felt the Porsche ifs delivered any advantage, so presumably he asked Stan Holgate to go back to the original on the rebuild. Getting hold of spare parts for it after September 3rd 1939 might have been a problem too.

I'll have a look in "Blue and Yellow" - there might be something in there.

 

While we're on the subject.

 

200 PAGES AND STILL GOING STRONG​

I'll take this opportunity to thank each and everyone of you for taking the time to keep this thread alive. ​

We now have an excellent membership of knowledge from all four corner's of the globe. ​

Without you none of this would be possible. THANKYOU.

Thankyou also to the many who check for regular updates.

Cheers.

​

 

1938 GP de l'ACF @ Reims Gueux.
Hermann Lang -Mercedes Benz W154.
finished 3rd.​

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1938 GP de l'ACF @ Reims Gueux.
Mercedes Benz W154.
Manfred von Brauchitsch.
finished 1st.​

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1938 Swiss GP @ Bremgarten, Bern.
J.P. Wimille.
Alfa Romeo Tipo 312.​

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1938 Swiss GP.
Christian Kautz.
Auto Union
DNF.​

​

 

Kurtis,

All thanks to you for starting this one .........and keeping it on 'track'


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A few ERA's














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I've looked in "Blue and Yellow" - no answer, I'm afraid.

I've always liked those George Monkhouse colour shots: he was able to get colour film because he worked for Kodak. The M-B ones from Reims demonstrate how the team used colour to differentiate the cars from a distance. Note that von Brauchitsch's red wind cap matches his car! However, the colour reproduction on Lang's car is poor - it looks black but should actually be dark blue. Seaman's cars were lined in green and he also wore a green wind cap - Caracciola's car was lined in white.

The Bremgarten pictures are from practice - Monkhouse took a number of those close-ups on the cobbled section. I've seen shots of Farina, Seaman and von Brauchitsch there too. Note also that Kautz is in the team's practice car, numbered 1: race cars carried even numbers only.

 

This tread is loopy! After reading the attached times article I decided those Atlanta pics were most likely it and googled to get page #39 top hit

Matson's radiator shroud is unusual in that bunch.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=380814&page=39

I think the Porthos pictured there is a 1908 Clement Bayard and possibly Alezy

 

From the Bentley University archives simply titled : Lucia Fiat

 

Just found a very clear postcard photo of Ray Harroun and his mechanic in one of his early Marmon racing cars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Harroun

 

...

 

I received this picture and had it framed about a month ago. 100 mile, 4th of July races, Elpaso, ILLs

This is just a copy a friend of a friend has the original.

 

I believe it has a Hall-Scott aero engine, as does the Schneider in two of the other photos.

 

The #1 Kautz practice car was a Type C-D.
The photo below shows Nuvolari's #6 Type D and parked next to it is #1 followed by the #2 Type D that was used by Kautz in the race, unsuccessfully.

 

Yes and no.
Yes because i'm questioning whether it is a Porthos and no, i don't think it's a Clement-Bayard. I thought the latter was powered by a 4 cylinder engine.
The chain drive on the car above throws me off a little when i compare the Porthos in the photos below.

www.industrie.lu/porthos.html

photo from the 1908 GP de l'ACF.
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b6913086k.pleinepage.f1.langFR
photo from the 1911 GP de France.
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b6916633f.pleinepage.f1.langFR

**note: Typo in the photo above. The gentleman's name is Emile Stricker.**
Vitesse is having a small chuckle now.

 

Cool postcards.
I can't make out the first but the second one translates to - "Driving skills are useless without brakes."

 

Welcome aboard Max.

 

(Jacques) Alezy sur Bayard-Clément, Salon 1908 [course automobile, 10 septembre]



Arrivée d'Alezy sur Bayard-Clément, Salon 1908 [course automobile, 10 septembre]

 

I thought you might enjoy this video.
HG

http://tiny.cc/s6g89

 

Thanks for the info Max.....

 

Strange statement in that video about fatalities in Bugatti T59s. Only two drivers have been killed in that model - the Duke of Grafton in 1936 and Kenneth Bear in 1949. Admittedly there were spectator fatalities involved in Bear's crash, but the T59 wasn't a killer as implied. Grafton was - sadly - a fool: an accident waiting to happen.

In fact, considering how many Bugs of all sorts were built they have a remarkably good safety record on the circuits.

 

Ah ha. So it is. Thanks.
I have one question though. Do you think the Gallica photos are correct?
The 1908 car, with 4 cyl. 130HP engine is different and the only information i have regarding Alezy, in terms of results, is from the 1907 GP de l'ACF where he also drove a Clement-Bayard, i'm assuming the 80HP 6 Cyl. car.

 

For want of better info yes, a dirigible engine perhaps. The mechanician in the Kaisepreis pic looks like Duray's companion Franville

'Alezi' at Brescia http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b6912596c.r=alezi.langFR

 

A very interesting and early Stevens-Duyea two-cyl. horizontal engined racer on the beach at Daytona.

The second photo shows the Packard Grey Wolf on the right with an Orient Buckboad in the middle and a early Peerless just behind it.....

 

This thread has become a great resource in itself

like the wire wheeled Renault Sheperd's postcard car doesn't match the race car, I imagine they were produced for sale at the meet.





A good part of the hoodless big 6 can be seen these pics of Alezy's car





if you go back to the 1908 GP cars the chassis likeness is more apparant and the blob representing chevalier radiator badge they probably adopted that year.

http://www.heritageeditions.nl

 

In the just wondering department...

Although I don't know their where abouts, I suspect there are a lot of these grand old machines, or slightly newer pre-rear engine GP / oval racers out there and that, restored or not, those cars rarely see the light of day. Other than major concours, are there any other "Big" events where large groups of these cars come together each year?

Perhaps one of you guys could start a seperate thread on that?

I have been to the Indy Museum, but that was many years ago. I plan to revisit it this Labor Day weekend after the US Nats. And I've made a couple of Miller meets in Milwaukee. So... what other museums, car shows, track days / vintage races out there are well attended, seminal events for old GP or oval racers to attend each year? Private collections that might be open occasionally? Restoration shops that might entertain a cruise-in?

I don't know a lot about these cars, but I just LOVE to oggle over them in person, wonder at their construction and in doing so get a better appreciation for how large your "balls" had to be to drive them at speed.

Thanx, Gary