The York show was great! Catching up with old friends was priceless. Seeing that so many of us still believe that what we did we did for fun, not money. So many memories that recalled our youth and accomplishments. When the Guys and gals were on the stage some on asked a question "how many stock world champions?" Two, George and Larry. I am sorry I did not ask how many National Champions and Natrional record holders were there! I would have bet all of them would have rasied their hands. And, that was back when being a National record holder meant something. I am happy that so many of the "significant" cars are in the process of being reconstructed. If more drag strip accross the nation held reunions I bet we would have a lot more interest in dusting the old piece off that is out in the barn. Let's thank those that have already committed to preserving the "golden age of Drag Racing" and encourage others to do the same. I did talk to Jim Amos (Bee on video) about the box load of 8mm films that Geroge gave him to make the "Cecil County run what you brung" video. He has heard from many of you about creating a Jr stock video. He would make one if he thought enough copies would sell to cover the costs to produce it and maye to make a couple of bucks. Call him, write him tell him what you would like to see and perhaps it will come to pass. Thanks ahgain for the memories and see you all next year. Tom
Paul, It's STILL fun! It's just that gas isn't 30 cents a gallon anymore ..... now it's $3.00 a gallon and your entry fee isn't $15.00, it's $45.00 to $125.00 a meet depending on the event. I would still rather drag race than bench race! I'm still looking for a set of clean Cragar S/S rims for my '66 Chevy. I need a pair of 4" X 15" for the front and 4 rims for my street and my race tires. I need 8" X 15" with a 4" to 4.5" back spacing, in a Chevy bolt pattern (4-3/4"). Any help would be appreciated. I know they're still out there.
I'm going to assume that you know that Cragar is still making the 15"x4.5" SS Wheel. Here is a link to it: http://www.jegs.com/i/Cragar/260/08415/10002/-1?parentProductId=755662 And here is a link to the 15"x8" with 4 1/4" of Back Spacing: http://www.jegs.com/i/Cragar/260/61815/10002/-1 Or did you want something else?
Last weekend at York I talked to Fred about the car. He said he sold it prior to the end of the season with the understanding that he would run it at the World Finals in Dallas for which he had qualified. The record at that time was something like 12.23. Fred said there were 16 cars in the eliminator. As I recall, the 1st and 2nd points leaders in each division qualified to run. The car was running 12 teens and twenties then all of a sudden came around. Fred said Stealy was pissed when he ran something like 11.97 which stood as the new record. Fred had a different version of the accident saying that Stealy was crossing a highway behind a car which suddenly stopped leaving the trailer in the roadway which was hit by a tractor-trailer. He said the car was destroyed, but the drivetrain was salvaged and put into another car.
Colesy, Something I forgot to mention was that Fred told me he blew the engine at he Suffolk points meet. He said he prepped the heads, but the short block was not touched. Turned out to have cast rods, one of which broke. Pontiac sent him a set of SD rods to solve the problem. I guess they upgraded the engine component list to keep the car legal.
Glenn, Thanks for the quick response. I'm aware of the rims currently available from Jeg's and Summit. The original style Cragar S/S wheels' spokes are rounded and the newer style (readily available from the mail order guys) are flat spoked. They don't have the original look......they're close, but no cigar. The newer ones are vari-lug, which I may have to concede to, but the spokes of the originals are a must. The Cragar company has changed hands several times, as I've been told and the copyright to the design is probably why they aren't made the same anymore. We'll just keep lookin'. Thanks, anyway, again.
"I started going to the drag races in 1955 with a few older friends that had taken up the sport after loosing their driving privileges for street racing. Your parents where more of an issue than the law in those days. Started out with a few old cars that proved to not be as fast as a 16 year old thought. By 1960 I purchased a Olds F85 and started to have some success with the help of a local racer Bill Jenkins." Photo from York US 30 Dragway 02/61. "This was my 1960 Olds F85 tuned by Jenkins Competition, Berwyn, PA. Seen are just a few trophies won in D/S in 1960 with the little 215 inch aluminum V8. We had to run '58 to '60 Chevy conv. equipped with the 348, 3-2 setup because of the light weight of the little Olds per AHRA / NHRA. Jere Stahl built a set of little headers that really helped (sounded like a bumble bee when on the line). Even had a few starters complain about the noise being different than most." http://banditododge.tripod.com/ Pete
Pesce' The quickest 273/235HP car that you get out of the factory was the 1965 Plymouth Valiant V-200 2-door sedan, 4-speed, with the optional 3.91 gears. Car weight #2714 lbs....Off the dealership lot; 15.30's @ 93 mph The quickest 340/275HP car. Would be the 1968 Barracuda Coupe, 4-speed (had the better camshaft), with the optional 3.91 gears. Car weight #3074 lbs....Off the dealership lot; 14.05 @ 99 mph. PC
"Seek, and ye shall find" (using Google). Yes, cool it is. Pete P.S. Jenkins Competition worked on more than one Olds, I see.
Paul, hello. Any tech info on the 215 cubic inch aluminum Olds V-8? Never thought that li'l engine/small car combo could run as high as D/S. Car must've been very light! Regards, Pete
You're welcome, Bill. Whatever I find, I share. Thank you for the additional tech info. Wow, 11:1 compression in that little engine? I'd have never guessed. Btw, what trans do you think that 4-door D/Stocker had? A 3-speed? Pete
1961 F85 215 CI 185 HP to weight factor was 13.86 10.25 CR, Rochester 4GC Carb .384 valve lift and small valves. 1.522 and 1.323 BTW a 4 speed was available...Shipping weight 2565 #
This one is for sale on Cars-On-Line,com. A later year but how many of this combo do you think are out there? Got a class for this Paul? 62 Buick Special Deluxe . 4Dr. 6-pass station wagon, with ultra rare 215 ci aluminum V8 and 4-speed manual transmission - all factory from new. This is a rust free California car with a complete high quality repaint in the correct factory colors and a full new correct restored interior. The engine was pulled for a concours level engine compartment restoration. new radial white wall tires, optional rear window rolls down in tailgate, luggage rack and full wheel covers. Drive anyplace, show or go. You will not see another one anyplace with this equipment.
Pete, Consulting with Google to back up my memory, I found that the early versions had the Roto-Hydromatic ( Slim Jim) and in 1964 they went to the TH300, BOP version of the Powerglide. Mark, According to Wikipedia, the F-85 went on sale in 1960 as a 1961 model. I remember the first Jetfire I saw and was impressed that Olds had put a Turbo on the 215. There was a bracket on the LF wheelhouse that held a triangular shaped glass bottle ( like the windshield washer fluid) that contained "Turbo Fluid" to dampen detonation. As I recall, the fluid was sucked into the intake via a vacuum hose.
Pesce', There was a difference between the 1965 273/235HP Commando and the 1966 version. 1) The 'Hurst' shifter and linkage was changed to the horrible 'Inlland" shifter and mechanism. An extemely long throw unit. Also, the shifter had a "L" shaped shifter base, to allow for usage on the new 4-speed console box. As well as a reverse lock-out mechanism on the shifter. Worth about .25/100 on the track. 2) The 66' muffler was changed to a more restrictive unit. There were complaints from the public, that the 65' low-restriction/high-flow unit was too loud. It was, because it was hollowed out. Worth about .25/100 on the track. 3) The 66' Valiant models were about 100 lbs. heavier. Worth about .15/100 on the track. PC
In 1965 or 66, I had a gent who owned one of these come in and complain that it no longer had the "oomph" it used to have. If he had been a little more observant, he would have noticed the little red light on the dash which indicated that the fluid bottle was empty. After a little research I found out that the tremendously expensive fluid this bottle held was nothing more than alcohol and water. So I got a bottle of rubbing alcohol, added water and took a test drive. WOW! What a difference! Oldsmobile had a safety interlock which opened a waste gate which held boost pressure to about 1 pound (I believe) when the fluid level was low. Because of this, I went out and bought a '62 F-85 Jetfire which had the complete blower (except the manifold adapter) in the trunk since I had aspirations of running this combo. It never came to pass, though, since my research showed the trans and rear would almost certainly be keeping me in the poorhouse. I still think that car could have been a killer. Skip Asay
Dad raced back in the day in great bend, ks they reopened the old drag stip a yr or two ago. Bracket racing of course but dad and I went recently. We sat by the staging area and i watched his right foot twich every time the last yellow came on. ran across this utube vidoe of '63-63 pretty cool to watch its from a old 8mm someone took. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiAn-U8e0Dg
Once you're hooked it's a lifetime addiction. Speaking of that YouTube video, I really like what one guy posted in response: "Look at the attendence back then.... amazing. I race regular at SRCA currently, and I don't think i've? ever seen that many people there!" You bet! Pete
I'm sure they did,Tom. I seem to remember the new model cars always coming out in the preceding Fall. The point was that he was calling it a 60 and he won all those trophies then. This was my 1960 Olds F85 tuned by Jenkins Competition, Berwyn, PA. Seen are just a few trophies won in D/S in 1960 with the little 215 inch aluminum V8. We had to run '58 to '60 Chevy conv. equipped with the 348, 3-2 setup because of the light weight of the little Olds per AHRA / NHRA. Jere Stahl built a set of little headers that really helped (sounded like a bumble bee when on the line). Even had a few starters complain about the noise being different than most. Minor point, I suppose, after half a century... MY
Seems to me NHRA had a rule that turbocharges had to be run "dry" in those days. Think that meant no Olds helper bottle.
before i got my drivers license i used to go to the races with a guy that had a '63 f-85 215/rochester 4bbl/4 speed...it went steady low 15's with stock single exhaust and 7.75x14 street tires...
Another Fred Borcherdt story: Bill Cornelius lived near Fred's shop and spent lots of time there. Fred let Bill use his equipment to do his own head work. At the Suffolk points race, Bill set the record with his Corvette running the 4 speed. After tear-down, Fred and Bill took the car back to the motel, put it on four jack stands and swapped the trans with a 'Glide. The next day Bill won the eliminator. This must have been in 1971 because I remember the 1970 event having rain start on Saturday night a washed out the eliminator until the following week. Although I remember Bill being a good driver, I was surprised when Fred told me that Little George would ask Bill if he was running Cecil, Atco or Delmar so he could go to a different track to race.
Pickle-Feet, There was a difference in weight between the 1965 Valiant V-200 273/235HP Commando, and the 1966 Valiant V-100 273/235HP Commando. Both were 2-door sedans. The 1965 weighed in at #2714 lbs. The 1966 weighed in at #2808 lbs. Different classes also, back then. In 1965, the 65' V-200 ran in D/S In 1966, the 65' ran in E/S and the 66' in F/S In 1967, the 65' was back in D/S and the 66' in E/S. In 1968, when the classes were re-arranged by the .50 wt/hp break, both cars were classed in H/S, 1969 I/S and 1970 J/S. Jere Stahl's car pictured throughout is a 1966 V-100 2-door sedan. I think the V-200 was only available as a 4-door in 1966. PC
Pickle-Feet, Yes, the 1967 Pontiac Firebird convertible with the 326/285HP H.O. engine also fell into E/S in 1967 (11,89-12.49 wt/hp break). It's break was 12.06 wt/hp. In 1967, it was classed with the 66' Valiant V-100 273/235HP (#2808 lbs.) The 1967 Firebird convertible went up to I/S in 1968. The 67' Firebird 326/285HP H.O. hardtop car was two classes lower in G/S. PC
Happy to talk and gather information from none other than Lee Krupi and Ernie Musser. Info and stories they have to tell are priceless!
Had a great time racing the Squirreltown Screamer, hopefully with a little help from the guys that ran these cars, I can get her better times than I did at the Nostalgia Nationals. But had a great time driving the car at BSD, wish we had more Juniorstockers racing. Thanks to Larry Schneider for racing Special Delivery. Don't really enjoy racing Jrstockers with tube chasis and parachutes !?!
The Jalopy Journal
