Questions about doing my first paint job

After a long hiatus of a couple of years working on my Studebaker 1-ton truck project to concentrate on work and family things, I think it is about time to actually get back into it. It is at the stage now where a lot of fundamental work has been taken care of thanks to help from Jerry Sezar for getting me started and then Matt Seret for a bunch of ch***is and sheet metal work. There is still some more to do, but getting to the point where I can start thinking about wrapping up the ch***is and body stuff enough to at least shoot some primer on things and start thinking about finish paint.

Unfortunately I let some of the bare sheet metal sit for too long unprotected and some has gotten a bit of surface rust which needs to be taken back off, but shouldn't take too much effort.

Once I do that, I want to avoid a repeat. So, my main question is about what paint I should use to do that, first a primer and then a final paint. Knowing the following:

1. This will be my very first ever car paint job. But, I have painted stuff before and know a bit about how to paint things in general, just not using air guns and painting cars, etc.
2. Not looking for a 10 out of 10 show quality paint job. Firstly, I would never be able to pull it off and secondly, I don't want the truck to look too perfect even if I could. It will actually be used like a truck and I want it to look like a truck and don't want to be worried too much about messing it up when I use it.
3. I want to shoot this myself, probably even just outside in my driveway using basic inexpensive equip. What kind of gun and how good of a compressor should I get? How about a HPLV set up?
4. I will probably need to prime it and then let things set for a while while I continue to work on it and will likely have to strip and repaint some parts too if needed. What kind of primer will be good for that?
5. Final paint color is to be shiny solid black and want it to look like that great 40's-50's deep black that seems to have a very slight blue to it, almost like anthracite or something. Will have stock Studebaker truck white trim accents. What kind of final paint would be best to use knowing this will be my first paint job. Will need to be compatible with chosen primer of course, something I can get in CA without too much effort and would prefer something that isn't going to kill me or give me nerve damage if I'm not careful enough. I am open to single finish paint or color + clear if that is better for my situation.
6. What about the ch***is? Again, just basic black, but probably satin I would guess instead of shiny.

Here is the truck for reference. It is still pretty much just like this, but some the bare metal has some light surface rusting. Wheels are going to be matching black with the split rings in silver, maybe a spray on chrome like finish of some sort. I kins of wanted them chrome but understand it isn't maybe a good idea to chrome them for metal embrittlement safety reasons. Interior will be matching black. Motor to be gold with bare alum. blower, etc. similar to mockup as shown.

The goal is for it to look very stock from the outside and inside cab, but have a nice vintage hot rodded motor under the hood along with some discrete, not obvious, drivetrain upgrades; 5sp OD trans, dana 70 rear, disc brake on the front. Inside will be almost totally stock except want to have a very nice leather on the seat, maybe with some cool tooling details on the edges.

I might drop the whole truck a couple of inches as it sits pretty high as is.

That is the plan anyway.

Any help and tips for a painting novice like myself would be very much appreciated. Thanks!



Here is what it looked like stock when I got it before I took it apart.

 

Well I am having someone else paint my car but he told me the easiest to use is a single stage paint . There is less mixing involved and easy to spray . Looks good after it dries too .
The frame would be best to have power coated . If not a por15 gives a good finish as long as you follow the instructions to the letter .
I do know there has been a few good threads on this subject so you might find some good information on a search too .
make sure you get some good pictures posted for us to see . Should be a hell of a truck when done .

Retro Jim

 

I agree with Retro Jim. I just did my first paint job and asked people all about what to do on the HAMB. I ended up doing a single stage paint and it was pretty easy, it was also the cheapest option and they said it was the best for beginers. Although it drips pretty easily the stuff I used (Omni Economy Line Stuff). It ended up being pretty cheap and I used an HVLP gun with an air compressor at like 30-40 psi.

 

Read this it answers all your questions or most of them anyway

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=488872

 

I am fond of the TP Tools paint turbine. I shot single stage black with it. Use the 1.4 tip for paint. I used 5 star hotrod primer as my primer over Slicksand.

With their set up you have to use the slowest reducer. Otherwise, it wasnt to hard.

http://www.tptools.com/dg/59_HVLP-Turbine-Paint-Spray-Systems-and-Guns.html

 

Thanks for the tips so far. Sounds like maybe the HPLV setup is the way to go. I never thought you would need a different gun for primer. Maybe a different tip or something, but not a gun. Why is that?

Do the HPLV setups make a lot of noise when running or are they pretty quiet? Since I will be painting outside, it would be better if not too loud on top of the paint smells.

Anybody in NorCal recommend what kind of paint would be best for this situation and where's a good place to get it?

Any good local places to buy the HPLV setup? I like to support local businesses when I can within reason of cost, etc.

 

I used two guns for ease. The TP Turbine guns are special to that unit. I used a 1.0 bottom syphon gun for the primer, and the 1.4 bottom syphon for the paint. The 1.4 gave me a better spray finish for the paint.

The beauty of the paint turbine is it sounds like a shop vac. Its also nice because its requires no adjustment. All you adjust is the spray pattern and the amount of paint flow. The system has to build up a pressure before you can paint. I got the extra legnth of air hose so I could move around. I painted mine outside to. Sunday mornings early while the bugs were still asleep.

Then I let the sun bake the finish.

BASF Limco Synthetic enamel with hardner.

 

Thanks again. Man, if my paint job turns out half that nice, I'll be more than happy. Very nice looking job on that.

 

Grainger shows HVLP units on the website. There is a Grainger branch in Berkeley.
Do you plan to buy a unit to paint one project? Some of the tool rental places have them too. Rental prices add up pretty fast though. On one rental place I looked at if you rent it for a week you might as well buy it!

 

Sorry to bust your bubble, but you're still a long way from buying the paint. In order for your nice black finish to look good, you'll need to spend many, many hours with body tools, bondo, primer, sanding boards and blocks. Nothing looks worse than shiny waves!

Even the best early cars and trucks were ill-fitting and lumpy when they rolled off the ***embly line. While that might have been acceptable back then, it simply doesn't get it done today...especially in black.

While it's a good thing to prepare well ahead of time so that all your materials will be compatible, use your available funds for bondo, primer and prep tools. In the long run you'll be very glad you did.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news...

 

Do you not own a compressor at all? To me spending that kind of money on a HVLP system makes no sense unless you plan on painting alot as that is the only thing it does. Save some extra money and buy a good compressor you will get way more use out of it.

 

[QUOTEThe beauty of the paint turbine is it sounds like a shop vac. Its also nice because its requires no adjustment. All you adjust is the spray pattern and the amount of paint flow. The system has to build up a pressure before you can paint. I got the extra legnth of air hose so I could move around. I painted mine outside to. Sunday mornings early while the bugs were still asleep.[/QUOTE]


I don't know how you can spray outside with a TP HVLP turbine system. I've owned one of these for over 10 years and sprayed quite a few cars with it. The pressure is so low that if you catch any kind of a breeze; the pattern is gone. You need a controlled enviroment with these systems. Turn your garage into a paint booth (as close as you can) for a day. The overspray is minimal. For best results, spray it VERY wet with close overlapping stokes (to avoid "dry spray"). The paint dries very fast because the turbine air is hot. It's a different animal from a conventional set up so you have to adjust to it. They are great at breaking up metallics.

 

I just happen to paint with the calmest conditions. Zero clouds and zero wind. Had zero bugs and zero dirt. The overspray was nominal vs the other hlvp guns I have used. I would reposition the work as it dried with the sun to even the temps. Was able to color sand it in 30 days. Honest about the way I painted it, what I used and my results.

Preperation is key to any paint job, and I agree about the time to get the surface ready for paint is the most of it.

Cost wise I understand some of the posts. For me it was easier as the compressor I have would have required more for me to use it for paint. Its a gas powered 34 gallon, 21 cfm constant. I used it for my board sanding. No real 220 where I was to build the car. Could I have someone shoot it for what I had in material and the turbine? No, unless I wanted an earl schibe job. I felt I got my monies worth out of the first use. After that it will be residuals. I will do at least 4 more cars, one I am working on right now, so its worth it to me.

Then there is the post on the young man who painted his pickup in white. Made his own booth out of one of those car tents. I did mine outside in the light so I could see what I missed.

 

The facts mentioned of black or dark color hold merit. However they also are more forgiving of panel gap issues. Mostly I hear the man say, "prep, prep, then prep some more!" I'd plan to start in, and then read up before getting into buying the final materials.

 

For your first paint job, I'd use a single stage non-metallic color with several coats. Or basecoat a couple coats and put several clear coats over it. That will give you room to color sand "fix" the paint in case you get a run, sag, or excessive orange peel. Then you need to get good at buffing unless you have a buddy that's comfortable buffing cars. This ounce of prevention may save you from a sand and repaint.

 

Remember to time yourself between coats, dont use the clock in your head its wrong. One way to prevent sags and runs is to let the paint set up proper.

 

No worries, you're not busting my bubble. I appreciate honest info. I am asking now because I want to stay one step ahead. As I finish prepping the metal, I want to primer it to protect it this time and partly wanted to know what to prime it with and what kind of equip. I should get to do that and the final paint too. Just trying to educate myself on the next step before I actually get to it

But, also, I actually want the metal work to look very similar to the factory with spot welds and all. I will clean up anything that just looks warped or oil canned, etc. but plan to leave the metal as metal like it probably came from the factory for the most part. This isn't going to be a show truck and don't want to over finish it as such. So, yes, it definitely still needs a bit of work even in those regards, but I'm not going to spend hours and hours trying to take out or covering factory imperfections and block sanding like crazy.

But, mostly, I just need to know what to do with the clean metal once I get it back to that and am ready to protect it for the final paint later.

Renting a set-up or even a spray booth would be good and might just be the best options as well if possible. I don't have any connections for any that are close to Berkeley though at the moment. If anybody has, let me know. It would be great to take the parts to a proper booth and go at it if possible. But, don't want to haul the parts back and forth too far as the cab and bed are pretty heavy and bulky obviously. I don't have a trailer either.

 

You might want make sure that it's legal to spray the car outside. I would think that it's not in the Bay Area. It would be a drag to end up with a big fine from the fire dept and still not have your car finished. Maybe you can rent a spay booth from a local bodyshop afterhours or on a Sunday. I had good luck prepping my car and then having sprayed by my local Earl Scheib. Good luck.

 

Hey Stude_trucks. So I read the whole thread and see your questions are not being answered.
For tools you can get away with a cheapy knock off gun if you only want to paint a couple jobs but if you think you will want to paint more than a couple times invest in a name brand gun. Binks, Iwata, Devilbiss, and others are good but spendy. Two guns are handy because color coats and primers have different viscosities and spray differently. You could get two sets of needles, fluid nozzles and aircaps to make two guns...kind of. Also, HVLP and gravity feed are the best way to go IMHO. After you get the gun the manufacturer will tell you how much air it requires (SCFM) Buy your compressor accordingly. Be aware that the oil-less compressors are very loud. That might be a consideration for your area.
So firstly, after you get the surface rust off your metal, clean it really thoroughly before primer. There are a HUGE amount of products out there that are for that purpose but if you want something really simple then try using basic acetone. Acetone is a great solvent (it dissolves nearly anything) and flash dries very quickly. Keep wiping the metal down with whatever you choose until the rags/towels come clean. Use a tack rag (available at your paint store) to clean off the lint, dirt, bugs, small children, etc from the metal. I highly recommend spraying epoxy primer over your bare metal. Epoxy sticks like nobody's business, it is tough, and it also is a bit of a sealer so it is somewhat weather resistant. You can then sand the areas that need body work and respray when needed. To eliminate low spots in your panels and sanding scratches you will want to spray a 2k filler primer. That means it is a two part primer (paint and catalyst) that is thicker than most primers to encourage it to fill low spots. As a last primer to seal over all your work and prevent it from bleeding through to the top coat I recommend using the epoxy primer again but thin it out more that you did initially to help it flow more and lay down a nice smooth surface.
Finally, after much sanding and bodywork (that you did before the "sealer") you will be ready for color. So as you are just across the bay from me I know what is available to use for paint. Unfortunately, because of air quality standards, solvent based color coats are all but gone including the single stage enamels and urethanes. They are good paints for beginners because they have less steps than basecoat/clear coats. You can still travel out of the bay area and buy single stage paints though. I think Dupont's Centari brand is still available out of the bay area as well. That is an acrylic enamel that was (the last I sprayed it many moons ago) very user friendly. I also want to caution you about spraying in your driveway. All the single stage paints are slow drying. That means when you are spraying and some paint mist drifts over to your neighbor's car, house, boat, dog, etc it will absolutely, positively stick to anything. I've wetted down concrete before spraying SS urethane and the **** sticks to the concrete through the water. I'm not kidding about the hazards of ****ing with your neighbors and I know how **** Berkeley residents can be. Be careful ok? Brands are a matter of personal preference and the particular store you happen to buy from. Ive used Dupont for many years but I will warn you that their prices have become higher than giraffe *****. Transtar and PCL are economy brands that you should be able to find for the primers. LMK if you want more advice or PM me. I've shot a lot of cars and being close by I know what we can buy around here. Good luck

Joe

 

The hamb has again, had the cream rise to the top. I think everyone that has contributed has brought good stuff to the table.

If you were in Washington State, around Vancouver, I could tell you about local shops that rent paint booths. We dont have that where I am and I wish we did. It would eliminate alot of headaches for sure.

I was told to see what local shops would rent a booth, and that was zero!

As an odd idea, see if there are any tech schools in your area that may be interested in helping you in this endeavor.

 

Agreed, good info so far guys, thank you very much.

Here is what I have distilled so far.

1. Probably should still try to find a rental spray booth if at all possible and will do that. if anybody has a local tip on that, let me know. I don't know of any local cl***es, but will check that too.
2. Probably best to go with 1-stage paint.
3. Seems like the new catalyst paints are the ones that can really mess you up if you aren't careful. So, will avoid those unless I have proper gear to avoid problems.
3. Seems like the HPLV setups are maybe preferred, but a standard compressor system might be cheaper. But, all I currently have is a little hand tools compressor and not one big enough for painting. So, I have to buy, rent, borrow a full setup one way or the other. This may end up being my only paint job, but who knows, might be able to pull off a few more in the future if I ever survive this project.

So, I am at the stage where I want to start the final metal prep to get ready to put the primer on. Since it may take me a while after the primer goes on to get to the point I might be able to put some final color on. How long is it ok to live with the primer, knowing that I will likely also be doing more work to some of the metal during the process before final paint? I have heard it is not good to let the metal sit in primer as it can absorb water, etc. and after a period of time, it won't take the final paint as well or poorly. Not sure if any of that is correct or not, or if only applies to some primers/final paints but not others.

Also, are some of the suitable primers less toxic and better to use for my situation of piece meal painting? Maybe I can just work the parts, prime them as I go here and there, get them ready for final paint, and then just let somebody who knows what they are doing do the final painting in a booth. That might be the ultimate best way to go. But, I think it would be fun to shoot my own final paint myself if I can figure out a realistic way to make it happen. Doing that in a semi-urban area with no booth though may just not be the smartest thing to try to do. Maybe I can barrow a HPLV setup and just play around with some of the smaller stuff just to see how it goes. I am sure I will learn a lot just getting the primer on. But, first I want to get the right primer on so that won't have to be stripped and redone as well. Obviously, want to keep the back tracking to a minimum. Already have enough of that to do at this point.

 

Stude,
The catalyzed paints also "outgas" for a considerable period after you're finished painting. I went out and gave the car 4 hours of dry time. Then began re***embly.
Far too soon, as the affects of breathing the stuff show up.

 

primer/paint

http://www.tcpglobal.com/Restorationshop/

 

That's definitely good to know as well, thanks. Hopefully it's not permanent for you. This catalyzed stuff sure seems nasty. Maybe better for the overall smog reduction, but seems a hell of a lot more potent to people directly.

I'm going to hit up a local paint shop with a buddy on Friday and chat them up a bit. My buddy said he painted his truck himself out in his yard over in Oakland a few years back. His truck is a early 70's Chevy and he matched the stock metallic green color and did a base + clear. He said that way it is easier to sand out mistakes. But, can't you also just sand and buff out a single stage paint ***uming you have enough paint thickness to sand with? he said he put on 3 coats of base and several coats of clear. Sounds like over kill to me, but it does look pretty good even after several years sitting outside and being used daily.

 

Okay Stude, you seem to have gleaned some good points. I will attempt to answer your questions as you posted them. As I have not mastered the multiquote my answers are mixed in with your quote. Sorry guys for the confusion.

PM me and maybe we can work something out.

 

SAY NO TO SINGLE STAGE, the only thing in is go for is using it as a sealer!

 

For a first timer....it's hard to beat basecoat/clearcoat....ESPECIALLY if ya want a metallic.
You can buff a single stage as long as a hardener is used, but if it's a metallic, you don't wanna wetsand before buffing. You're pretty much set with whatever the finish is "as sprayed".

 

Investigate the new Laquar paints as well as the water based paints, you may be pleasantly surprised. The laquar fits your requirements for ease of use and driveway friendly attributes. It does take a little more elbow grease and may not have as nice a final shine as B/C paint. JB2wheeler

 

Thanks again for the added info guy, especially Triggerman, that is a lot of good detailed info to go with. All very much appreciated. I'll try to keep this thread updated as I figure out and do more for those who might be interested. Triggerman, I probably will hit yo with a PM before too long, maybe this weekend after I get a chance to get with my friend and talk with the paint supply guys on Friday. If I am lucky, maybe I can borrow my friend's setup he used at least to get some initial practice with primer if nothing else.

 

Stude, PM sent to you.