HEMI Tech: Oil systems- filters, pumps, pans

Ahh... never noticed that on their site before. Thanks man!

EArly pan:


55 and later pan:

 

I used the Stock oil pump on my 345 DeSoto when I rebuilt it. I also went with the straight-down spin-on filter adapter/full flow valve with it. I had to clearence cut the 1" transmission mounting plate too. The bottleneck in the whole system is the oil return holes in the heads. The Stock pump flows sufficient volume and pressure, but the return holes seem small compared to other engines. If a high volume pump over loads the capacity for oil drainback, I'd be afraid of running the sump out of oil. Another thing with guys having a problem finding the right pan...couldn't the pan be cut off,just above the rails, then turned around and be welded back on? These are just some thoughts. BTW, I've not had any sort of oil pressure problems at all with the Stock pump...

 

The 340 HV pump only pushes 3.5% more oil than OEM. rebuilt OEM pumps,apparently, do not get the housing built back up & any erosion can cause a loss of oil flow. This could result in a loss of about 27% of flow, depending on actual wear of the housing. When it says a 340HV pump "increases flow 30%" it actually restores up to apx 27% of flow & adds 3.5% flow. A guy who entered(won?) an engine building contest with an early Hemi said (here or some other Forum) that he has drag raced the engine with a standard volume 340 pump. If a SV pump can be drag raced w/o problems, an OEM rebuild should be adequate.

 

I just took a few pictures of the two pans I have, side by side. The center sump pan has the later style rails and is about a 1/4" shorter. Here's the two side by side...











I'm thinking of trying to make the shorter center sump pan work, somehow. I would like to run it. Maybe that will make a nice little tech thread....

 

hey Scooter - I missed linking this old thread, but didn't think you'd
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=196733&highlight=oil


It's a post I did on modifying a STOCK HEMI pump. Not sure it applies - so take it for what it worth.

In my case I've heard of WAY too many people losing a pickup for various reasons - and even though the 392 pickup is a wonderful design - I still felt my particular set up might benefit from some massaging.

 

WOW! Awesome! Thank you for adding that!!!!

 

We have produced a pan with a universal pan rail design that will fit all Chrysler early Hemi blocks.
Shown below is one on the right hand side.
This is not everyone's preference but has sold very well.

 

A couple of extra photos of the new stainless steel pans also.


And our stainless engine mount kits.

 

Quickhemi, do you have a website and/or business address you can share with us for those who might be interested in your products?

Wish more people in the states would get their act together. Never realized how difficult it was to find a pan until I started looking for one. There are a few repops out there, but they are mostly later pans.

 

I'm not really a smallblock Mopar guy, but why is everyone always talking about using a "340" pump?
Aren't all the smallblock oilpumps the same (273/318/340/360)?
What am I missing here?

 

Well, I've been looking for a number of months for an oil pump/pickup for a 291 DeSoto. Since I've had NO luck what so ever, it looks like I'll have to use one of those damn things (340 pump). In MY case, that's why...

 

Hi Scootermcrad,
Our Business BRUNSKILLTOWN STREET ROD SERVICES is based in the Barossa Valley in South Australia.
We purchased the tooling and designs for the KC Racing range of oil pans for early Hemi engines and have added pans to suit the Dodge and Desoto Hemis as well.
As previously shown, we can supply both rear sump and full length pans with oil control baffle bulkheads and windage trays etc made from plated steel, stainless steel and aluminum.
We were the main supplier of all new early Hemi pans to Bob Walker at Hot Heads until the cost of shipping from Australia and the monetary exchange rate (plus Bob's mark up!) made selling through an agent impractical.
We still ship pans direct to customers and are able to offer landed pricing with delivery usually within 10 to 14 days using Australia Post.


All pans are test fitted to the appropriate model Hemi block and are dispatched in heavy duty shipping cartons.
Further details and pricing can be obtained by contacting me at hemioilpans@bigpond.com
Regards,
Tony Cooke

 

Spotted this in a tread. Melling Int. shft, part #IS 47. Not hardend or for HV oil pump. What ya think?

 

Melling is running off new hemi & "A" Poly oil pumps. The listing is a bit odd. All high decks use the same pump, but the 392 isn't listed & the 331 & a ghost size is included.

 

Aren't the "Dodge Truck" pumps the same as the 392? I was thinking they have the same bolt pattern and shaft link as the 392. Also the 354 listing.

Why the HELL doesn't anyone make an EARLY 331 pump!!! DAMMIT!!! I know those earlier pumps were used on other Mopar engines. Anyone have a listing to cross-referance and maybe someone reproducing them? I need two rebuildable cores. Driving me nuts...

---------------------------------------------------------------

2 New Oil Pumps for CHRYSLER, DESOTO, DODGE, DODGE TK, PLYMOUTH (1956-1961)


M-50

Chrysler (354) 1957-58
Desoto (325) 1957-58
Dodge (270, 315, 325) 1956-58
Dodge Tk. (251, 314, 331, 354) 1956-59
Plymouth (270) 1956

M-51

Dodge (318, 326) 1959-61
Dodge Tk. (318) 1959-61
Plymouth (318) 1957-61

 

All tall decks used the same pump. 315/325 is listed so 330/345/341 & 392 should be a go also, but not listed. The low decks had swing pick ups, that would cause an apparent change, but do they bolt up diffrent?

 

Nope! They hole pattern is juuuust slightly different, unfortunately. I have a Melling unit for my 331 Truck motor and it will bolt up to the later main cap, but the hold placement is just different enought that it won't bolt up to an earlier 331 rear main. Was another one of those "dammit, I didn't think about" situations when I was building my early 331 motor. Couldn't figure out why those bolts wouldn't go in and then I took a close looks and cried a little.

 

I checked with Melling to see if they have, but not listed, or are going to make an early 331 pump. NO DICE! "No plans at this time." Pretty much knew that was the answer.

 

I'll add my $0.03 (inflation is rampant)...
There are two different pumps; early 331 (51-54) and basically, everything else. There are two main differences, one is in the bolt pattern and location of the oil passage, slightly different between the two and the general design of the pump. The early 331 pump easily fits in a rear sump pan, and does not fit in a centre sump pan (392 style). There are also differences in the pickup tube attachments. Most of the early 331 pumps had a slip fit tube retained with a cotter pin, however, I have some cover plates that are tapped for a screw in style tube like the later units.
It is curious that EGGE shows six (6) different part numbers in their catalogue (102, 103, 105, 106, 107, and 108), and Chrysler parts book shows four (4) different numbers (1324210 for 51-54 331; 1327466 for the 52-54 276/291; 1532875 for 53-55 241-260-270; and 1851434 for 56-58 354/392; 55 270 Ply; 56-58 315,325; 55-57 291-330-341.

I suspect that the various part numbers also account for the tube attachment style.

It is also interesting to note that Chrysler shows a pn 1314607 for LHD.

.

 

I saw some new (repo) rear sump '55-'58 Chrysler oil pans a while back on eb*y...a case of 4 came out to be about $80 each shipped. They werent selling individual pans. It was noted that they could not be redrilled up front to fit an early 331 (not enough room). Does anyone have any experience using them?, good or bad?

 

Melling might be listing a DeSoto pump, but it's for the DeSoto "Fire Sweep" 325 single rocker engine..which is neither DeSoto NOR Hemi...it's a Dodge. I FINALLY located a 291 DeSoto oil pump and an NOS floating pick-up. After a complete dismantleing, surgical clean-up, and reassembly, it holds 40# pressure at idle...

 

Still a hemi based Poly, so it would be the same.
Leo's book lists
2 pumps for 51-56 Chr
1 pump for 51-56 DeSoto
2 pumps for low deck Dodge
1 pump for 56 DeSoto
2 pumps for 57-59 Chr/Dodge/DeSoto/Dodge truck
example 1324210 & 1630248 cover 51-56 Chr

 

The De Soto part is WRONG......

The Low deck 276-291 takes 1 pump & The High Deck 330-341 takes another.

The talldeck is the same pump as a 392 or Tall deck Dodge.

Both my 291 & 330 have floating pick ups.

Stock Hemi Pumps are the ONLY way to go.

Been both routes, Leave the LA pumps to the Billit crowd.

 

1 pump for 51-56 DeSoto
1 pump for 56 DeSoto

The 325 might be "Hemi based", but the pump won't fit the DeSoto Hemi engines...

 

OK boys and girls. Here is one of the new Melling early hemi pumps.

 

Hey TR...

Are you still working on an adaptation possibility?

 

Here is my conversion..First, I had to make my oil pan and make it a rear sump..Made a plate, bolted down the pan cut it, turned it and rewelded..This was done for the rear pickup I put in..The pump pictures show what happens when a tapper on the shaft was not radiused. The new one came the same way, took to my friend and had it radiused. The pump was a Hot Heads 340 HP with the adaptor..The second one took a full day to modify the sleeve so the the pump would fit flush so the shaft would turn free..I've had no problems with the new install..
Thought I would share...
Duane..

 

oops, pictures..

 

Don't know how many are still using the cannister filter, but a guy posted a pic of a Purolator filter on the ForwardLook Site that is clearly stamped Made in India. Maybe because of low volume of that type or did they move all production to India? An Australian site had pics of made in India spin ons cut open. The bodys were recycled fruit cans with the sides reversed. You could see the original use on the inside!

 

GEORGE - I read that. I also read that the NAPA Gold cannister filters are made by WIX. I just happened to buy one for my DeSoto this morning, and sure enough on the box it says "Made In America", and NAPA Gastonia, NC (which is WIX' Factory).