Not our best weekend. Finally got time to start the teardown to fix the carnage, so here's the saga ........ We hauled up to Bako and tech'd in on Friday. Pulled into the lanes for quals Saturday morning. Set up and did our burnout but the clutch wouldn't release after, and I had to brake & kill switch it. Put'er in neutral and restarted but the clutch still wouldn't release so I killed it again and the line crew pulled me back. Pulled'er back to the pits and tore into it. Four piece pressure plate, breaks at the finger mounts, no other damage. ****. Talked my wife into a five hour parts run back to L.A. Now that's a wife, eh? Got back with another pressure plate set-up and stuffed it in, punctuated by dinner and the awards ceremony. Too late to make a qual run. Sunday morning I talked to Butch who was kind enough to let me follow the Open Wheel compe***ors with an exhibition run. This time I did the burn out and staged for the solo. Clutch slipped badly all the way through first, and when I hit the pedal for second at 5000 it sprayed. Just the pressure plate again but this time it took the can & bell apart quite soundly, removing a piece of the flywheel via one of the can screws. It also pried off a chunk of the bell mount flange, and with that a small piece of our oil galley. That s****ped the engine. It broke the TO beak off the gearbox and pounded the TO bearing out (the TO arm and pivot escaped clean). All the major pieces stayed together and in place, the secondary supports held up properly. Net losses; flywheel, full clutch set, block, bell, gearbox nosepiece. The ****tershield deformed as designed and kept the pieces out of the stands, bending the throttle linkage slightly. The frame deformed with it as designed, bending the shifting linkage slightly as well. Only had two pieces go over the K-rail on a short hop, those two went out at an odd angle. They were the two that were twisted off when the bell didn't break away from its mount flange but took the flange along with'em, they went forward rather than out radially. We ordered a Spec Clutch set-up rated for 50% over our torque numbers, I'll have it in by Eagle Field but didn't make it in time for Dragfest . Also there's word of an SFI bell being developed for the slant this year, to eventually be offered in a pattern for our gearbox. We'll be getting one soon as it's available. I've added pictures to the album of course (see sig link) but here's a teaser ................
Ouch ****. That thing grenaded like a real live, genuine racey type car. Glad to hear you'll have her back together for Eagle Field. Did you have a spare motor in the wings?
Yeah, still have last year's block (40 lbs heavier than the new one was) sitting on a roller-flat. I'll be swapping all the goodies back again.
Well, Saturday was a good day. Got the frame rails and the ****tershield straightened. It's a comment on the forces involved that it took me half a day and a good back & arm to straighten and reform what it took that 6 lb pressure plate a tiny fraction of a second to deform. Added a couple pictures to the album of course but here's one for the thread .......
As much as that ****s, glad that you're all ok, and the safety elements did their job, live to fight another day. Certainly a humble reminder to us all, Drewfus
Yup ...... and I suppose I may as well spit it out. Our "winning" ways continue. We pulled in and rolled'er off the trailer, fired'er up to do the checks and, while holding 4000 for a few seconds during the timing reset, she quit as if I'd hit the switch. In fact Tom thought I had. Restarting didn't work and feeling the pipe & stack suctions produced anomolous pressures so we pulled the dist cap and noted the rotor was no longer in the game, but couldn't be turned by hand. Ergo, timing set. As none of us'd heard anything out of the ordinary and there were no noises when turning it over we were by now expecting a sheared cam pin. The seat and the firewall access plate came out, the pulley and timing cover came off (with the generous loan of a puller, saving us the time to cobble one as we were doing) and what to our bloodshot eyes should appear but both the crank and cam sprockets rendered into kit form. The chain was clean and simply piled up around the pieces. I'll get to the verdict in a moment. Rocky called around locally and found a repro set in a Modesto Autozone, a mere 2 1/2 hr turn-around run from the field. Sooooo ........ We got back and popped'er in, re***embled the ****pit and pulled'er over mere minutes before tech closed. Back in the pits we fired'er up and she ran, but was really lumpy. Still, it was "tee" time so we pulled'er up for a solo run. Lumpy and all, she ran well, turning the new hides well even at part throttle and (other than my bobbled second gear) negotiated the strip properly, pulling nicely the whole way. Still, the lack of smoothness bugged me, so we did some more feelings of the pipes and noticed #3 out of sorts. We popped the rocker box and sure enough, we had a well bent and dislodged pushrod. In fact we had a truant lifter as well, as when I looked down the hole I was looking at lobe. We found it shortly, tucked under the side of another (now bent) pushrod two back. Well, we wiggled it back into its hole, Tom tapped the rods straight again and we stuck it all back together. She fired up and ran smooth enough but with less than two hours of meet left I decided not to take'er up the tach with the "adjusted" rods. I didn't want to take the possibility of either the engine getting hurt again or oiling Rocky's strip down. So yep, I chickened out. We did at least drive'er up onto the trailer on her own at day's end (Joe had to winch his streamliner in with a broken driveline, likely a pressure plate, so we agreed to declare the Barn Job the winner of "our" round ). Summation: We believe I likely fractured the crank sprocket at the keyway, either in putting it on or in tapping the pulley on against it. It held through tests 'til it fractured the far side at the field. Then, coming out from between the chain and the crank nose on the back side and still driven by the remaining half, the half now free angled up into the teeth of the cam sprocket and wedged into'em ...... for about a thousandth of a second before it all sprayed. Of course that jerk is likely what bent the first pushrod (over an inch aside), with a later revolution sending the lifter errant, bending the second slightly. The oddity of none of us hearing a thing, the unusual totality of the damage to the sprockets, the pristine condition of the chain and the lack of further noise either, are all curious (to say the least), but concievable within that reasoning. Anyway, I'm going to do a bit more in lightening the valve train, then remove the inner valve springs. It's our conclusion that unloading the cam some will be good, and that the low tach we turn should handle the valves against the lift with just the one spring. So, the Antique Nat's at Pomona in two weeks'll be the field test for that. "Other than that, Mrs. Linclon, how was the play?" Actually, I had a ball. Breaking (sometimes in creative ways) is part of the hobby and it's the hobby itself that I so enjoy, particularly the nostalgia corner of it. Hell, we broke'em some then too. The meet was "to hell & gone" larger and more chaotic then the last one, with the wind and dust verifying the desert localle. Still, it was handled (even better than could be expected), and still also, was the best thing in "the way it actually was" there is on the left coast to date. You can bet your *** we'll be at the next one. Go see this thread if you don't get it. I'll try to get some pictures up this week.
****, the only thing that pisses me off is, "yall are having too much fun on the left coast". I guess I'll have to wait until August and the HAMB drags!! Robert
****, An entertaining and eloquent narrative. It's a damn shame you had to file the report though. Was that an "experienced " timing set? I ran my Crosley Saturday and pretended I was at Eagle Field. Didn't work.
Yeah, the crank sprocket was an "elder statesman". I use the stockers below with the kit sprockets above as they're slightly off from the kit ones and give me a few degrees to play with in timing the cam. I like nearer 100* than the 106* in the kit, don't care to scream essentially stock bottom ends. I probably should've sweat it on rather than tapping it. To tell the truth, having both of'em go was a first for me. I haven't done it that way before, so it took Tom and I rather awhile reading the pieces to dope it out, and it was he who got it first.
Regardless of all the problems...it was the best dirt pit thrash I've had since 1962 at San Gabriel!!
Howdy, update time ........ ....... but first a question. What do you get when you cut .100" off the head of, and put larger valves into, a non-interference engine? That's right cl***, you get an interference engine. I pulled the head to yank the secondary valve springs and install the lighter gear, and lo & behold, there were dents in four of the pistons, five shallow dents in all. Goes a long way in explaining the roughness left over after the timing sprockets thrash at Eagle Field. So today I got to straighten and lap the four bent valves (we got lucky on one) in addition to doing the lightening work. Verrrrrry patient work with a medium hammer and an 1/8" "drift" sheet. And as I have no lapping rouge handy I re-aquainted myself with my toothpaste supply. Those valves have such bright smiles and fresh breath now. Anyway, she's going back together nicely and will be at the Antique Nat's at the new Fontana Sunday. Tom (64 DODGE 440) and I'll take turns puttin'er through shake-down there, in anticipation of ANRA II at Famoso in a couple weeks. I'll let you know how we did.
Or not ............. I flamed'er on the trailer for a quick test. She still sounds rocky, and ate another timing set within ten seconds. Looks like I have some detective work to do.
I know you will share your findings with the group, the sooner the better. I installed a stock set of timing gears and chain in mine in October and I think I just ate them up last night at test/tune. I have had no problems in the past with the stock set, but I probably do not have 50 runs on this set and I am pretty sure they are gone the way the car acted last night. I have heard that they make a set of double roller chain for the slant and maybe that is the way to go?? I just do not understand why a stock set will not hold up?? Robert
To you slant 6 guys. I got my double roller timing chain from Clifford's. It came from Australia. Joe
Howdy all, Working myself to death, no time yet to fix the HAMBster, bored out of my skull. Just to keep my spirits up here's one of Neglected Steel's pictures from the last Eagle Field meet, me churning the desert dust.
Apparently the same tires though !!! I don't have verification but I think this helicopter engined go-kart might be Arfons' first car (aircraft that is, not the Olds). I recall once reading that his first was a chopper engine, and there's an aircraft engined middie behind the pick-up as well (maybe his first two cars?). I've read several things on his early stuff but haven't found another mention of a chopper car, or even re-found that one mention. Wish I had more info on this photo.
OK, kiddies, Here it is. I finally got time to tear into'er and at long last discovered my timing sprocket problem as I was putting a new set in. The key that the factory uses to drive both the crank sprocket and the crank pulley is the standard Woodruff design, round cut on the backside to fit into a round bottom slot in the crank nose originally cut on a type of horizontal mill. It seems that mine was either a bit too short on the top (flat) side or the slot was cut too deep, and this allowed it to "rock" in the slot. With the sprocket putting more side load on the key than the pulley, it "rocked" up into the pulley slot and down out of the sprocket slot. Eventually far enough to let the crank sprocket slip. This turned the cam loose in relation to the crank, allowing the valves to get out of phase. With the addition of enough valve size and the subtraction of enough head material this condition then allows the valves to come into contact with the pistons and tends to bend things. I suspect that the situation with the moving Woodruff key on a stocker would still break the crank sprocket and subsequently the cam sprocket as well. You'd be spared the bent valves though. I notched the pistons to clear again no matter what and put in an new timing set. I guess we'll see this weekend. I'll put up some pictures of the work when I get back, sometime next week. ps. The Rollmaster style double roller set from JP is really nice in that it's mountable up to 8* forward or backward of the stock setting, using extra key slots on the crank sprocket. Base setting on the cam I have is 108* so I mounted it at -8* for a 100* total, a good setting for inline sixes.
It's good you're figuring out the root cause of the failure. It will help us other slant guys avoid that calamity. Where did you get the good roller chain timing set? Not familiar with JP.
Sorry, my bad. JP Performance is an Aussie company that makes speed parts. Their slant six timing set looks a lot like the Rollmaster set but is handier to use. They may've bought Rollmaster, which could explain that. JP's stuff is handled by Falcon Global via E-bay listings here in the states. That's where I got mine, they have warehouses here and carry a lot of JP's stuff. I had to call'em and give'em the e-bay ref number for the set, but they shipped immediately (for a price of course, UPS next day air from their Florida warehouse ain't cheap) and I didn't have to go back to e-bay. I ordered'em Monday, put'em in Tuesday (with a modification to the key), and fired'er Tuesday evening. The problem seems to be solved and the new cam sounds good. There are likely other U.S. handlers of their stuff but you'd need to research that, or call'em at 61-8-8261-7222, I'm sure they can tell you.
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