Safety, craftsmanship and pride.

Is it me just noticing this, or are there more guys here asking for advice on how to cobble stuff together poorly and cheaply? Posts asking what's the cheapest way to get disk brakes, get around known worn out, clapped out early front suspension steering problems and just generally using junk.

I know there are "art cars" out there built to shock, I'm talking about guys intentionally cutting corners and driving crap they know is unsafe. I understand being broke, and sacrificing to put a car together, it's how things have been done forever.

Tradition is a big thing, and common theme here, and rightly so. To me, it means trying to IMPROVE the looks and performance of a car, and emulating the history hobby and the best of the best of those who preceded us. Do the best with what you have and what you know, getting better and honing skills. Learn. Improve. Innovate.

It grinds me no end to read questions about how to patch up some grave problem without actually addressing the cause, in the name economy of time or money, especially if the problem is known to exist.

Paint 'em with Rust-O-Leum if you want, bias ply vs radials, we can argue all day, and SBC's vs. "cool" engines, sure, bring it, lets debate for 20 pages, but please try to do the best we can, try to make things better and safe to drive, don't ask for advice on how to cut corners and skimp on basics.

There, I feel better...

Brian

 

i agree

 

After a recent trip to the US i saw plenty of rods that i would flat out refuse to drive or ride in. Mainly because of the poor workmanship, cheap dodgy practices and just plain unsafe setups. One in particular in Vegas was a duece coop with blown hemi, no front brakes on a beam axle and big cheater slicks, he happily left a get together in this death trap in the rain.

 

I have no problem with someone asking the cheapest way to do something - the right way.

Too many young guys have only ever seen "swap kits" offered in magazines. Many have no idea where to start comverting that early Falcon or Nova from drum to disc brakes using (good) junkyard or OTC parts store parts.

Piece together an air suspension system for $700 using good parts vs. stroking a check for twice that (or more) to Ride-Tech..... hell yeah, I wanna know how to do that.

Let 'em ask, I'll decide for myself which recommendations are BS & which I can benefit from.

JH

 

Just my opinion, but I think there are tons of hambers building very nice cars with lots of homebuilt parts and ideas...buy some have said that they don't post pics because they don't think their work is special enough...when compared to the many pro-builders here.

I wish more common builders would post, that would offset the posts you mentioned.

 

Well said, I couldn't agree more.

 

No doubt... I agree 100 % I saw a pal of mine get hit at at street race in Newark NJ.... I was 17 years old..the guys drag link fell off,,,, I admit I did race that night,,,, he still walks with a limp ,,,, that was the last time I street raced..... went to the drag strip,,, after that and fully understood what NHRA tech and building a safe car was all about,,got involved ...,,, raced,,,,SAFETY FIRST...got involved in "Hotrods" thru NSRA,,, stayed involved... thur safety inspection,,,and still volunteer 25 plus years,,,,I think for me, especially once I started taking my 3 month old daughter to drag races,,, and rod runs 20 plus years ago ,,,, "Safety" has always been first,
if I am not sure, on a safety issue,,,,, i read ,read,,,,I ask ,and ask,, and ask,,,,,,when in doubt,,I build it stout"
no one should get hurt,,,,because of poor skills and workmanship...we all know better

 

Um, thats called a hot rod.

 

i just hope the only person he kills is himself.

 

I couldn't agree more...endangering family/friends/others because you want to cut corners to build a "traditional hot rod" doesn't do it for me. I consider myself a pretty competent builder with pretty good welding capabilities but I always have chassis welding done by a pro. I'll install a new brake system, but it will be checked out prior to running on the road. Just common sense and decency.

 

My brake-drum is cracked. Can I weld it with a battery, jumper-cables and some coat-hanger wire? Or should I just leave it off? I was gonna use J-B weld, but it's too expensive.

How ya feelin' now, Brian? LOL.

 

Hey Truck, the ya... um... Americans should see the safety hoops we Aussies and Kiwis have to go through to get legal, eh? No front brakes and cheater slicks dont cut it down here.

 

Stupid always wins. There was a really bad accident at the Cal 200 last week. Now off road racing is in jeopardy on federal land. I remember harsh enforcement from back in the '60s. It sucked. Bring a lot of negative attention to hot rodding and look for a return of the bad old days. A lot of cars look like yard art now days.

And let's face it, we're really talking about rat rods here. They are the hickey on the hemorrhoid of the car hobby. Let's not encourage the morons. Call a POS a POS...

 

i know a guy that had a camaro wire, screwed, duct taped to the top of a 1/2 chevy chassis. he hit alittle bump in the woods and the body was held on by the engine geting cought up in the bay.

 

Yeah, and it's probably for everyone's good. What started the Low Volume Certification requirement was a Model A coupe disintegrating itself in an accident on Auckland's Northwestern Motorway about 20 years ago. At least the Powers-that-Be went to the sport for advice as to how to put together a workable programme.

Way back in the day in my misspent youth in L.A. I saw a lot of stuff that was downright suicidal - ever see a GTO turn it's driveshaft into a pole vault? I sure as hall have, and could tell you a lot more horror stories that result from poor maintenance and shoddy engineering.

 

I think when most of us see a post that looks like it could lead to a safety issue, we speak up. By posting here and asking for input, the guy is at least looking for help.

 

True, but there are a disturbing number of instances where the advice/opinions offered are casually disregarded. No money, no time, no effort willing to be expended.

 

Flynbrian48,
You may be reading more requests for such advice, but I believe that people don't change and just as many by percentage will try to get away with cheap and dangerous repairs. They always have and always will.

What does change is the level of enforcement (as noted in posts above) after a horrific accident makes the news and stirs a political backlash. The pendulum swings between greater enforcement and relaxation of enforcement.

The debates will rage on, but more and more States are relaxing and eliminating mandatory inspections, despite the arguments that the government is going to take our old cars and crush them. My belief is that State inspections protect us from the idiots (both intentional idiots and clueless idiots) on the roads. I recognize all the arguments against inspections and in favor of personal responsibility, but you'll never teach the entire driving population about the proper care of automobiles.

 

Glad you feel better and I agree with you, but you can't teach common sense. I'm no fabricator, I come here to see the great ideas and fabrication on display. I am a dd year round of an only vehicle '49 1/2 ton, I know if I hit a crush-box (aka new car) I'm good to go, I hit a tree or any other immovable object and I'm off to be with all my dogs that have died.

I flush my brake fluid once a year faithfully, adjust brakes 2x a year. I have my hood up almost every day checking out the fuel lines. I am almost paranoid about the proper torque for lug nuts (don't get me started on that horror story) I carry a fire extinguisher and wear a seat belt because not only do I feel safer but I think it helps prevent driver fatigue by keeping a good posture while driving.

I think as observers of peoples projects we can accentuate the positive by bringing up safety for painting, welding, you fill in the blank.

I'm glad that you posted your thoughts and I appreciate your concerns.

High regards,

Cosmo

 

Same here.

Something else I have noticed. Guys who purposely do lousey craftmanship to be different. They think they are being artsey or maybe they want the shock value of it.

For instance, the ratty Model A coupe at this years Columbus Goodguys with the chop job done so bad one side (left to right folks) was lower than the other and the 1/2-3/4" gaps.
The cut line was so wavey that withought a doubt no line was marked or taped as a guide.

Why???

 

Most of us here, have been building before these new guys were even born. Totally ticks them off to be told ANYTHING. We all think safety and done right above all else, why, cause we been around. We have seen the foot blown off or even the death of a exploding clutch. We have seen the havoc and total destruction of a frame with cold welds from a 110 H/F welder, and a inexperienced weldor. Cars burnt to the ground because of a ," I dont have to do that ", or " that aint that important " attitude. I just left another site, cause again, I told some know it all, safety first, then cool. I drive my builds 70 plus on the interstate, I drive my builds WFO at the drags. No, I'm the idiot. Trying to save these kids lives, is why we have grey hair. Measure twice and cut once, not for the new breed of know-it-alls. A devastating wreck is not a video game, you just cant push the re-set button.

 

Cheap is not always bad. Example: a good safe Mustang II swap can be done for a couple hundred bucks with stock parts from a donor car - retaining all the stock suspension gemetry. You can pay 10X as much for aftermarket stuff that looks pretty but has screwed-up geometry. Most of the stuff out there is good, but there are still lots of stories of bump-steer, extreme tire wear, etc.

 

It's not just car building.

I have been a gym rat since 1980. What these young guys are doing today to their bodies is just plain nuts.

Guys consuming 400-500 grams of protein per day to bulk up, taking mass doses of unregulated/untested but over the counter supplements like Creatine or Jack3 and then I overhear the one young guy telling his friend he is 100% impotent with his hot 9.5/10 girlfriend at age 22 and he wonders why.

 

You know, the problem is not new. Read the Henry Felsen books. Always about right way and wrong way, not only in obeying laws but in building cars safely or half-assed. Stupid is always gonna be with us.

 

Oh heck just drill a tiny hole at the end of the crack and that'll stop it. Jeez what a pack of nancys

 

Agreed, you can't fix stupid. Maybe I'm just getting old and curmodgeonly, and just now noticing? The "you can't tell me what to do..." attitude is especially irritating, and combining that with the "I'm building it 'old skool' or 'It's traditional'..." is maybe what's at the core of what I'm complaining about. The frequent references to "gold chainers" and demeaning remarks about the more, ahem, elder hot rodders (read: street rodders) baffles me as well. If you're doing it "old skool", and building it traditionally, why is neccesary to knock the old guys and their cars who's work you're supposedly imitating or paying homage to?

Ah well, I'm going to just try to ignore it from now on. I guess I'm gonna go out, wash my street rod, hot rod, surfer wagon, mild custom, whatever it is they're labeled, cars and go to this weekends car show/camping outing. There may be an Elvis siting...

Brian

 

I completely concur with the idea of using wrecking yard parts to do a lo-buck mod, BUT you must freshen up the pieces (clean, re-gasket, reseal, rebuild, refresh, etc). Using inexpensive parts and using your brain to make it all work CORRECTLY and SAFELY is what hot-rodding is all about. I have seen some cars that had mods done that were engineered correctly, assembled with care, cleaned and rattle-canned, and I thought that they were bitchin'. If you've been around long enough you'll remember that there was a time when the aftermarket wasn't as prevalent as it is now, and guys had to use their ingenuity and skills to build their cars. Personally, I think that it's a part of the hobby that's rapidly going away. I find myself more drawn to a lo-buck car that's been engineered right than I am to a $200,000 trailer queen full of off-the-shelf parts.

But that leads me to the second part of my post......

I've been to countless shows and have seen countless cars. I think that the "Rat" term has been over-used and many people unfairly lump some decent cars under that heading because they aren't painted. That's too bad because they are categorized with some of the most poorly-engineered, unsafe piles of garbage on the road. I've seen it all: steering components that have been stick welded or welded with a 110V welder, throttle linkage made out of coat hangers or bailing wire, no front brakes, fuel lines leaking all over the engine, wire nuts used on 12V hot leads, bare wires everywhere, no floorboards, no seatbelts, broken glass, the list goes on and on. I saw one car at the GNRS that was parked outside the Primer Palace: It was an early '30s 2 dr sedan, fenderless. It had no top insert, but the builder had strung rusty barbed wire (!) across the opening about every 10 inches. The top had been chopped, and it looked like they used a pair of tin snips to do the cut, and it had rusty, jagged metal everywhere. It also had most of the examples I listed above. I kept asking myself, "WHY?" There are a group of so-called hot rodders who think that it's cool to have the roughest POS they can build. They wear it like a badge of honor. I just pray that these guys never get into a panic situation and have to rely on their car to save their life, because if they do, they're a goner.

A guy has the right to build whatever he wants, however he wants, but when it's built with such poor quality and lack of safety, it becomes a problem and a hazard to everyone else on the road.

Build your car with pride, use your brain and engineer it right, and drive the living crap out of it.

 

Great thread Brian.

Here's an idea. The HAMB has grown to be a sizeable voice in the crowd. We know that if things keep going the way they are, some government agency or agencies is going to get involved - either through regulating our builds, or regulating us out of building altogether.

Maybe we ought to come up with something for the street like the NHRA did at the track in the 50s. Perhaps a builders guide that noobs could follow to help them do things the right way first. Maybe even a group of volunteers that could do basic inspections and "HAMB Safety-certify" builds? HAMBers could pay a modest fee and get a build-inpection plaque or something. Doesn't have to be as big a deal as what the Aussies have to go through, but some basics could go a long way.

Just some thoughts. Seems to me that getting our house in order from the inside is better than waiting for someone from the outside to do it for us. We're going to be associated with the crap builds whether we like it or not - lets do what we can to either fix them, or segregate them from the rest of us.

 

No one has any money to spend to fix the un cool parts that make a car work properly but they all buy shinny wheels, hub caps and valve covers because they are a seen part.

 

I think my car is very well constructed and still worry about every nut or bolt failing. I can't imagine poorly constructing a car and driving it without any concern ever crossing your mind. Guess a lot of them have never experienced a few life threatening car crashes or even racing like I have.