MII ball joint Failure- Read if you have MII

Took a shake down drive the other day and as I pulled back into garage the right front end went down ,lower ball joint pulled out of the spindle stripping the threads on ball joint and shearing cotter key. Control arm dropped. This was after running up to 60mph. Anyhow bought a set of Moog ball joints and compared with unknown ball joints that came with control arms. (through a reputable hot rod dealer). Measured them and the unknowns.

Moog Unknown

Thread-.558 .528
Thread length 1.125 .875
Top of taper .664 .654
Shank length 1.125 1.375
Bottom of shank .726 .711

All I have is a mike and a machinest scale so did the best I could. Seems like a lot of differance to me. Just wanted to let it be known that some of these parts we buy are NG. Yea I know tighten 60-90 foot pounds reach min than turn to first slot. Seems to be soft as cotter key slot elongated and threads stripped.Never seen this before.

 

Probably need to contact the place you bought it from? Thank the hot rod gods it failed where it did!

 

Wait til this 3rd world crap drops a plane out of the air and kills 100's maybe then there will be some quality control enforcement.

 

Google "Mustang II suspension failure" and you will see the Little Shop of Horrors including two well known names that crop up repeatedly. A lot of these aftermarket suppliers use the same ball joint for both upper and lower - this is wrong. I get my Mustang II stuff from Larry at Spartan Rod Works - www.spartanrodworks.com - super heavy duty DOM A-arms with the good screw in Volare type ball joints with the correct uppers and lowers. Larry has been in this business since 1976 and has great quality products.

 

One way to sort of tell on Ford stuff is the lack of a grease fitting, When you go to NAPA you can buy the $11 part with out the grease fitting or the $19 part with it, seems like you get about 30% more steel as well for your money. Want to tell us who's this was.

 

Yep, I'd say they are buying low budget knockoffs.

Years ago when guys started cutting MII crossmembers out of cars and using them or buying new ones for 100.00 or so across the counter at The Ford dealers parts counter I checked ball joint numbers and the top MII Joint is the same joint as MK IV Lincolns and a lot of other big Fords. The Factory lower ball joint also fits a lot of bigger cars that Ford made. You can check the part numbers if you want to.

This looks like a case where the bottom liners and buyers trying to get a deal override quality in a product.

 

Local, Said he would replace but I dont want them. He will contact supplier.Who knows? Ill be 70 and had a series of heart attacks and strokes in 2005 (Badlefthand). Paramedic said (quote" all I can say is you must have something left to do") guess I have'nt finished yet. I have used moog for quite a while.Should have known.

 

The picture looks(to me) like the nut was cross-threaded, even might have been the wrong sized nut/thread pitch?
I have seen a lot of threads stripped/cross-threaded over the years. That torque spec you quote tells me to torque to about 75. Going to the max would be the extreme. Also when Torqued, turn back to first notch.

 

I edited out the insanity and hopefully have a solution, Thanks.

 

Back in 97 a Chinese made ball joint failed on a customers truck going down the hill into Indio CA at about 80 MPH. Nothing serious happened other than a few soiled shorts and a damaged lower control arm.

The stamped housing split where it forms the dome to encapsulate the ball of the ball joint. Since then I refuse to use anything but a name brand part with a traceable history.

Your case is strange for sure. Built to a price, not a standard. Use the MOOG joint and forget about the differences.

 

I have 2 uppers and 1 lower, good ones, I'll send them to you for ship charge. Aircraft mechanic for 36 years.No cross thread.

 

I saw the same thing happen on a pre-assembled lower control arm (Chinese) from a Mustang supplier. I will never run anything but a Moog or TRW joint.

 

ELpolacko, Wondered where you were. Figured you would give me some thing else to think about.

 

This is why I'm not a fan of Pinto/Mustang II suspensions. It's an adapted technology from a little fartbox of a car to a 2 ton hotrod. How many MIIs came with big blocks? Oh I remember, the ones under all those baracket racers that made the swap popular. I'm sure that many advancements have been made, and save the bandwidth from all of the "I got 221,762 miles on my...". I know for some it works. I for one would rather have a well-sorted modified OEM style suspension that was originally designed for the car vs a mini-car front suspension.

I'm sorry you had an issue with the ball joints. More and more we're getting inferior mass production shit from overseas for $0.50/hr. Too bad. Even buying the higher priced part doesn't relieve you from doing a close visual. For the condition you're in you can't take any chances and I wish you all the best. I hope you find out and can possibly save others from a fate worse than what may have been.

 

What link has you all twitched out? The only link in any previous post before yours on this thread was a link to a good supplier?

 

In post #4 he tells you to google Mustang II susoension problems. I did and it adds to my thoughts. It's not a LINK.

 

""This is why I'm not a fan of Pinto/Mustang II suspensions. It's an adapted technology from a little fartbox of a car to a 2 ton hotrod.""


pinto and Mustang fartboxes have nothing to do with it. my 49 Chevy uses 4cylinder fartbox springs with a SBC. as stated earlier the ball joints are the same used on bigger cars. they are bigger than what is on the Camaro clips people seem to like.

everybody should check out the FATMAN catalog. goodinformation there about the whys and hows of MII.

fartbox. I like that... or should that be "fartboxII"

 

The ball joints and Tie Rods in the MII front end were used in plenty of heavier cars as well, Including LTD's that weight more than most rods that are using them. The size and design of the part is not the problem here- it was as cheap off shore unit that failed IMHO.
And I have never seen a factory shop manual that said to loosen the castle nut if it didn't line up, always tighten slightly more!

 

thank you...

 

Correct. You go to the next slot after you reach torque. To back off negates the whole purpose of the taper. Looks like over torque or soft steel. Nothing else can do that. I base all this on the fact that I used to make, assemble and test ball joints and other steering products for about ten years.

 

That is what i learned in auto shop 40years ago and you should definitley know! Explain it to this guy \/ \/

 

What he said. ^^^^^ True words right there. No bullshit. Take it to the bank.

 

Take it from someone with a bit more than anecdotal evidence, this failure has nothing to do with the ability of the suspension to hold up the car.

First of all, if the ball joint is properly seated in the taper of the spindle, there should be little to no tension on the threads from suspension load. Think about how your drill chuck is held into your drill press, what holds it in and if it doesn't stay in, why?

Given this failure, I would assume the tapers didn't quite match or the ball joint wasn't seated properly into the spindle on assembly. This would put the entire load of the suspension on the threads and if they were slightly undersized I could see them coming apart pretty easy.

Just a mental picture, could you imagine hanging four 3000 lb. cars from one 9/16-18 bolt? That's pretty close to the equivalent load under extreme load bearing conditions.

The MII was designed to hold up about 1800 pounds give or take on a 3200+ pound car. Just by the numbers this would match reasonably close to the majority of the 30's-40's (even some 50s) cars that these end up under.

 

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Follow along this step by step procedure: http://autorepair.about.com/od/fixityourself/ss/balljoint_replace.htm

 

Originally Posted by 29nash
I'm learning something here. I've always been of the opinion that over-torquing something was more detrimental than under-torque. Please point me to that instruction on a ball joint installation.


OK, here's a few;
92 Camaro Factory Shop Manual "Tighten to 80 ft. lbs. plus up to 1/16th turn max to align cotter pin"

67 Pontiac Factory Shop Manual "install lower ball joint retaining nut,tighten to proper torque and install cotter pin. NOTE: When installing lower ball joint stud, make sure stud and nut are free of dirt and grease before tightening. DO NOT loosen nut to install cotter pin, tighten to first hole that lines up"

68 Camaro Factory Shop Manual "Install steering knuckle on lower ball stud and tighten to proper torque. NOTE: Care should be taken that steering knuckle hole and stud are clean and dry. Tighten nut to proper torque and install cotter pin or continue tightening until cotter pin can be installed."

 

quick reference for you guys curious about proper torque specs:

http://www.raskcycle.com/techtip/webdoc14.html

Notice the torque spec for a 1/2" and 9/16" Grade 8 bolts. 120 and 170 respectively. Both well over what OEM calls out for on the supplied torque rating. The supplied torque spec is provide for seating the tapers.

 

My car over the years has been a sort MustangII torture test car vehicle for Elpolacko's gig, making me a sort of crash test dummy. After somewhere over the 227,423 miles that Highlander quoted, I have tried allot of different stuff under my car. I have used Chinese made stuff with out incidence in years past, and I'm still alive to tell about it. Hell, I live with a Chinese made woman and I'm still alive to talk about it. Would I recomend either practice to a sane human being? NO. If the off shore stuff doesn't break and hurt you, you'll find that it wears at a rate that is absolutely silly. If you have a MustangII that needs a front end rebuild, and the prices look great - STOP. Go get the MOOG stuff and look at it before installing. Make sure everything fits and seats the way it should. I too am amazed every time some body tells me that my suspension is too weak or substandard for the horrible weight that my car carries (3088 with me and a weeks worth of sales and living gear), but when it comes down to parts you get what you pay for. Oh, I also invite them to tag along and follow me around any twisty road they would like too....

 

Yep; Back to OPs equipment failure. The threads are definatley damaged.

Your suggestion of mal-fitment or possible overtouque trumps my inital impression of cross-threading. Of course the nut is long gone, I presume, laying somewhere along the road, so it can't be examined.