Good point--I thought the hardener had icocyanites in it and was deadly harmful without external supplied air.
I have one of those replaceable cartrige style ones made by 3M...bought it a few years ago from my local auto paint store when I was helping my friend paint his dump truck with a single stage paint. Works great...don't smell the paint when using it and feels very comfortable. I do reccomend to apply some moisturizer to your face and any exposed skin...this speeeds up the overspray on you removal process!!! Wear long sleeves, disposable gloves, hat, safety gl***es....ect you get the point! Here is a generatic off the web pic of the style I use....
So this is a stupid question... Is that a sealer primer or a filler primer? Or does rustoleum imply that all their paints inhibit rust?
I think it is a FILLER primer for it says it can be WET SANDED before topcoat. They say to use it in extream conditions where rust forms more rapidly than normal (wet, high humidity....ect)...thats all I know!
Definitely wear a respirator , You might want to get one of those disposable paint suits too, this stuff will make a sticky bomb out of you and everything else, cover everything you don't want paint on with plastic.
SoooooTrue!!! Before I shot the car...I played around on an old fender....my arms were sooo tacky after just a minute or so!....When I did shoot the car...had long sleves, rubber gloves, resperator, hat, long paints and safety gl***es. I even put some of the wifes skin moisturizer on my face so help aid in any overspray removal. I parked my other cars in the neighbors driveway....wet down the garage floor, put the fans on LOW...made a temp spraybooth out of that thin clear plastic sheets....worked good! The only overspray was a little that go on the garage floor from where the water dried up during painting.
I have used "Rusty Metal Primer" for decades on quality farm and auto stuff and it is indeed a filler primer. On metal farm equip, for example, that is surface rusty I scrub it with a brush and dishwashing detergent to degrease and then let it dry. I hit it with a couple thin,med or thick coats of rusty metal primer, wait anywhere from an hour to a day and topcoat. All thinned with acetone. Sometimes, but not often, I sand it. The stuff I spray generally looks great and people think I spent a lot more time than I did. I generally do not like Rustolem paints for finish work but the rusty metal primer works for me. Have never had a problem. I use HVLP.
See, this is the kind of info I'm looking for, if Alkyd enamel like Rustoleum and some others mentioned can't be later covered with automotive paint, can this^. Wouldn't this acrylic enamel be more "friendly" in the future?
Hold on...the stuff from a tractor dealer is usually alykyd enamel but the Rustoleum is usually not. It is a cheaper enamel paint, if I recall correctly. It took me a few years but I look for "alkyd" enamel wherever possible. It's written on the can. It flows well, adheres better and is more durable.
Hmmm, a guy here or the other rustoleum thread said that you can't use automotive paints over alkyd, and I got the idea rustoleum was. Sixdogs says he uses the tractor paint that is acrylic enamel, so I'm wondering if it may be able to be painted over later with automotive paints without having to be totally stripped, making it a better choice if you are just trying to protect the car till it's ready for a better finish. This would let me paint my car and drive it while continuing the customizing. If I change tail lights or headlights etc., no big deal, repaint the fender or quarter for $10 with little h***le, but eventually, when it's all done, I'd like a nice paint job without having to totally strip it like I would have to do with rustoleum. Soooo, with that long winded explanation I ask, can the above mentioned acrylic enamel tractor paint be re-coated later with auto paint?
Hey, Whyle in theory, with the proper sealer, you can shoot over jus' 'bout any automotive finish, it's usually a very poor idea! Mutiple coats of different kinds of finish usually equal multiple problems in the future. If you invision a paint job with the material costing $300.00-$500.00 a gallon I would not plan on spraying over anything but bare metal, primer, sealer, top coat. There is the possibility that with the proper hardener, mixed correctly and sprayed thus, that you could paint over that acrylic enamel, but please refer to my above comments! S****y Devils C.C. " Humpty Dumpty was pushed !"
Good thread, and Rustoleum has been VERY durable for my purposes on the '38 -- which HAD to be stored outside for years. But I wanted to add: Regardless of what paint and reducer you guys use, you can mess yourself up in a ****oned-up garage. All I'm saying is, sure, wear the right respirator, but ALSO stop at "refill" time and get outside in the fresh air for a little bit! I've made myself sick as a dog at least twice. You can't be so obsessed with the car that you forget to take care of YOURSELF.
Painted my truck with valspar & their hardener. I thinned one coat with naphtha and the other with mineral spirits. Both worked well, but the naphtha was evaporating fast- I mixed about 1/2 gal at a time, naphtha mix got thicker. Paint is tough. First think I hauled in my truck was a borrowed compressor to paint it, then hauled it back 2 days after paint, it slid around the bed, and was drug off the tailgate with no damage to paint. Paint is not perfect, but much better that nasty yellow that was on it. And I painted under a tree. Myself. David
You know, you could also just leave the car in the red colored Rustoleum "Rusty Metal Primer" and then prime and paint over it later. It's not a paint surface but it solves the problem. There might also be a flat black primer out there that would suffice too. I only know what I have personally done. Years ago, I was advised to only use a complete paint system from only one manufacturer and with only their products. I found that not to be the case when I painted enough farm equipment to learn otherwise. Rustolem primer has not let me down. Farm paint from the dealer that sells that branded equipment and is "alkyd" has not let me down. General farm paint from tractor stores, however, has not worked for me. Outside in the yard I have a heart-shaped (made for wife) piece of metal on a stake that has been exposed to the weather for six years. It is Case/IH red alkyd enamel from a Case dealer and the heart still looks just fine and really shiny. I started with a lightly rusted plow part I washed with soap and hot water, primed with the red Rustoleum and before that was fully dry hit it with two coats of the Case/IH bright red. One or two years later I did a farm piece with a farm store regular cheap red enamel and, while it has been mostly indoors, is already dull. I have also mostly used acetone as a thinner and never had a problem. I only used the hardener once until I read the warnings on the side of the can that said to use supplied external air and not merely a respirator. I think there is a real risk with this stuff that hot rodders do not understand. We need somone more qualified to address it here. I am now confident enough that i will likely do a nice paint job on my next ride. It will probably be a modified "A" pickup roadster cab only so not a lot of surface to screw up.
You should be able to order it directly from Tractor Supply: http://www.tractorsupply.com/agricu...ment-enamel-paint-1-gal-kubota-orange-3449211 I used the Kubota Orange on my VW (no hardener--was too spooked by warnings of lung damage caused by the isocynates in the hardener). I'm pleased with the results. I thinned it with Naptha (as recommended on the can). I found 4 oz of Naptha to 16 oz of paint worked the best with my sprayer (HVLP gun with 1.4 tip). ** Edit: I just clicked that link and realized it is available in stores only. Sorry ***
As I've mentioned in another thread on painting with oil-based paint, oil-based products using oil-based hardners are not compatable with plastic-based products. It's not about manufacturer when it's oil-based, it's the OIL. Plastic based products include, Acrylic, urethane and poly-urethane. They are all specific to themselves, and should be used by manufacturer. That means use Valspar products from the primer out, or Dupont or PPG, etc. The reason for this is if there is a paint failure/reaction you will get replacement product, and at what these materials cost that is a consideration. The labor to fix/redo a paint failure is all on you! So don't take chances with cross-matching products from different manufacturers. About respirators: These things are exposure sensitive. They are only good for about 30-40 hours of actual exposure. That means don't run around with that thing dangling down your chest cause it looks cool! You are wasting it's ability to protect your lungs. Keep it sealed up in the bag it comes in, while you are not actually painting. Write the exposure times on the outside of the bag, add them up as the times ac***ulate. When it reaches the maximum time allowed, get a new one! It's not about you being able to smell or taste the chemicals you are spraying, it's about the filters ability to protect your lungs! In addition to the respirator working correctly, you need good air-flow to protect yourself. The chemical in hardner that will harm you is isocynates. These don't just attack through the lungs, they penetrate through the eyes! This is a direct path to the central nervous system! Painting in an enclosed room without adequate airflow lets the isocynates build-up to dangerous levels quickly. When you are painting, start at the end of the booth that has the fresh-air coming in and paint toward the exhaust end of the booth, this helps especially if you have a decent exhaust fan. The best type of respirator is a make-up air system covering your eyes. This is an actual air-pump that takes in air from outside the contaminated area, it has a filter system too. While this would be the way things would go in a perfect world, where we all had enough cash to build anything we wanted, in a shop where we had all the tools etc ... In the real world, compromises will be made. While most of us will be able to get-away with exposures to paint for who knows how long before it effects your health, it's just like playing 'Russian Roulette'. The problem is every body is different. If you smoke, drink alcohol, have asthma, allergies, weakened immune system, common cold, are getting 'up-there' in years, and the list continues! All of these things effect your body's ability to battle these small amounts of poisons you are ingesting. As we age, things that we used to be able to tolerate we no-longer can! Make adjustments to what you expose yourself to as you notice these changes. I used to be able to tolerate cigerettes, I didn't like them and tried to avoid being around them, but at 50 years old things have changed for me. I am now allergic to them and any exposure to them is like being poisoned, in a very small amount. This adds up very quickly, and effects my ability to think clearly. Last year I lost my job as a fabricator, because I could no-longer read/blueprints with hidden lines. I've been a fabricator for more than 30 years! I've run the welding department for an experimental aircraft manufacturer, built tooling for manufacturing for decades, and I could no longer figure out a blueprint! This was due to the shop I was in allowing smoking in the manufacturing areas. We worked with the doors open and full airflow until winter, then it's all closed up. I couldn't get away from the smokers, and they didn't see it as a problem. It was slow to build but by December I was no-longer functional, as a supervisor-level weldor. I didn't know what was wrong, I thought maybe early Alzheimers. After leaving that environment/expousure rate, within a few months I was feeling more like myself, and I could again decypher blueprints! That was almost a year ago. I'm still not 100%, but slowly gaining, and very aware of what chemicals I allow myself to be exposed to. I now work alone in a small shop, with good ventilation, and an adequate paintbooth for when I do paint. Years ago, a paintshop I worked for had a couple of employees washing off parts using thinner in a five gallon bucket. These two gals were in an open doorway, with a fan on. Next day one of them woke up with tremors in her hands. Turns out she was 'sensetive' to the chemicals. There was a lawsuit, she still has tremors. That might not have shown up for years. She was in her thirties, everybody's different. Don't ***ume anything, and if you don't seem to handle expousure well, get out! There are no heros here! Dan Stevens dba, Steelsmith
Shot this in the drive way, not perfect, but, Its going to be driven daily when done. [/IMG] [/IMG] [/IMG]
looks awesome! love the color. just shot mine with rustoleum this weekend. inspired by this thread. came out great.
Chestnut brown Satin. Looks like milk chocolate. UPS brown enamel, looks like Dark Chocolate. Thinking about putting "Choco Taco" on the doors and a mexican blanket on the seat.
Here's some pix of my '51 Lincoln engine that I painted with custom color mixed X-O RUST. I thinned with about 1 tbl s**** of comercial solvent & 1/2 s**** of catalyst, I sprayed at 2:30 pm using 125 psi and walked around the engine 3 times without any runs. Prior to painting the engine was real rusty and I sandblasted it & painted directly after blowing it clean. I do all my engines that way, even using zinc chromate on the inside. I wasn't trying for a concours job, just didn't want another dirty engine in my shop. Pat
I posted my Rusto job on another thread... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5654685#post5654685
Rat rod? ****, I've worked my *** of trying to make something look real smooth and haven't had it come out looking that good, but then again I've always ****ed at the painting part. Seriously, it looks good. If they have it in a nice deep purple I might try it out on the old truck when she's ready.
I am giving the rustoleum a try. Sanded down to the original paint, wiped clean and rolled on a couple coats of Leather Brown. Think it's going to look plenty good for my budget cruiser. Have a little bit of body work to do, so I only did the trunk lid as a test piece. But she looks good, and the color is great. Very nice, chocolate color. I will post some pics in my build thread when I end up doing the entire car.
also can a clear be shot over the paint after? or can the clear be mixed with the paint? i will be going with gloss black already bought the paint and acetone and i have some quality enamel hardner.
I've been told you don't need to clear over it if you are adding hardener but you want a second opinion.
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