History We ALL Love a DARE! PIX of TRULY Extinct Makes?

OlDogginMD, THANKS for the post on the RARE Chevy humpback! I hope your query smokes out some answers, man, as that's a COOL truck! Is the one in your avatar YOUR own?

Not to hijack your thunder here but, hopefully, to capitalize on it: I have a question that's bugged me a LONG TIME. That is, the late-'31 production Model A V-8.

I read MANY years ago that a handful of production '31s did get the early V-8. (Several '31s had been V-8 test-bed cars, but that is NOT what I'm talking about. Production cars, not experimentals.) It is known that the Model A ceased production in late '31 BUT remained available into April of '32. And Henry ordered the V-8 to proceed into production (for end-March '32 introduction), even though the test phase had not been sufficiently completed (resulting in heat and oil issues -- separate matter). That Henry's transition to a V-8 was -- uh, er -- a little piecemeal during this time is underscored, IMO, by his hedging his bets by keeping an improved four-banger available into early 1934.

In such an environment -- and with the depression cranking up -- I find it pretty easy to believe that a few production '31 Model As could have, indeed, received V-8s. Naturally, since I read that (Rod&Custom, I recall) back in the early '70s, I can't lay hands on the source to establish attribution. Even my dad (whose own dad was a Ford man and drove a rumble-seat A model) scoffed at the idea of a Model A coming from the factory V-8-equipped.

I didn't dream this. Has anybody else ever heard this account?


Ford (1863-1947)

 

Thanks, Jim! Everybody loves a REAL barn-find story!

 

1913 Coey Flyer: Slightly mysterious, very well mannered





By BOB TOMAINE



Charles Coey was a balloonist, race driver, Thomas Flyer agent, garage owner, taxi operator, renter of cars and driving-school president. Automobile production made sense, but his 1901 runabout lasted only into 1902. Several, though, became the core of his Chicago “automobile-livery business.”

Customers rented cars and purchased driving instruction, leading to the C. A. Coey School of Motoring. By 1912, it was “the Greatest and Most Complete in the World and the only one Actually Building Automobiles,” with a $15 correspondence course and a “practical course” teaching advanced skills at Coey's plant.

Graduates were offered an agency plan that could lead to a free Coey Flyer. That incentive was strong. Resembling an American Underslung, the 124-inch-wheelbase Flyer was powered by a 60-hp, 377-cid six-cylinder Herschell-Spillman T-head. How many were built is unknown, but the owner of the 1913 touring shown here said he has heard of none since buying it in the mid-1990s.

“I think it's the only one in existence,” said Al Zamba of Pittsburgh, “and I think it's the only one he ever built.”

Examples of other Coey models exist, but Zamba's Flyer might have been a promotion for the school, since the second wave of Coeys was available from 1913 through 1916, but the 60-hp Flyer is listed only in 1913. Whatever its past, the Harrah collection acquired it in 1958 and later auctioned it. When its next owner decided to sell, Zamba was seeking a brass-era car but was unfamiliar with Coeys. “One of the fellows said, ‘It looks like an Underslung,'” he recalled. “Then it caught my interest.”

Its built-in trunk was unusual in 1913 and houses the headlights' gas generator. The car was built to carry neither a spare tire nor a license plate, which also reduces clutter and hints that Zamba's Flyer was not a production model. The nonrunning engine presented another mystery. “It took us a long time,” Zamba said, “to find out who made the engine. When we went to work on the engine, it was bad.”

After a year, the Coey was ready for reliable touring. Inte-rior space is adequate. Zamba said a day in it can be tiring, but it's also fun after you learn the shifting. “It's a wet clutch,” he said. “It's actually a racing transmission and clutch.”

Instead of double-clutching, the Coey wants smooth, quick shifts. Only the right-hand drive and clutch-throttle-brake-pedal layout require further adjustment, but the Coey's behavior offsets that. A narrow bridge gave us pause when we realized that we would meet a truck on it, but the relatively easy steering and near absence of wander took us over gracefully.

Whatever the actual number of 60-hp Flyers, it was too low.



Read more: http://www.autoweek.com/article/20100524/COLLECTOR/100529882#ixzz0z9jkTl9p​

 

This is all I could find so far.

From Mac's Autoparts

In June of 1931, after months of trail, error, and refinement, four prototype Flathead V8 engines were installed in modified Model As for research and testing. At the same time, engineers were enhancing the 4-cylinder in an effort to increase its horsepower from what had previously been offered in the Model A Ford. An upgraded chassis and frame had been designed that would accept the planned V8, as well as the new refined 4-cylinder engine, but as the last 1931 Model A came off the assembly line, final decisions regarding what direction the proposed Model B would take were yet to be made.

 

From: How Stuff Works

With the help of Herman Reinhold, blocks were secretly cast at the Rouge, and by February 1931 the first engine was running. By June, four engines designated Model 24 were installed in revamped Model As for testing. Even Henry Ford and his friend Thomas Edison drove them between Dearborn and Ford's winter house in Macon, Georgia. But Ford decided that "The time wasn't right, the depression was on, business was bad." Instead, he decided to release an improved Model A, and work on that was begun in late summer 1931.

 

1938 French Chevrolet Cabriolet .... 1 0f 2

Coming Up For Auction in November

http://www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_de...470&entryRow=8

 

Seven Electrics featured at Milwaukee Masterpiece

By Dave Lefeber

In what is believed to be a first for a concours d’elegance, the Milwaukee Masterpiece will feature a display of electric vehicles among the 175 rare and exotic cars to be shown along Lake Michigan at Veteran’s Park Aug. 21-22.

Along with the likes of Duesenberg and Ferrari, the show will feature seven electric vehicles from five different manufacturers, all in a class of their own, and all seeing a resurgence in interest as their technology becomes relevant to the American driver.

“Electrics,” as these electric-powered vehicles are often called, were originally designed as luxurious commuter cars for the well-to-do in the early 1900s. Many of them had very fine interiors along with a crystal vase for fresh-cut flowers. The cars were mostly enclosed, tall, stagecoach-appearing vehicles with tiller steering. Wealthy doctors and women were the primary purchasers of electrics, these cars did not have to be started with a dangerous crank nor did they require strong arm, plus they were reliable and most had a range of 50 to 100 miles on a single charge.

Representing the electric class will be a 1908 Pope-Waverly Model 69-B roadster, a 1910 Baker victoria roadster, a 1915 Detroit, a 1916 Rauch & Lang J6 Dual Drive coach, a 1917 Milburn Light brougham, a 1929 Detroit Model 98FD brougham and a 1932 Detroit Model 97 coupe. This will be one of the largest groups of old electrics ever on public display. There will also be a raffle drawing on both Saturday and Sunday for a ride in the 1929 Detroit. Proceeds from the raffle will benefit Jewish Family Services, the beneficiary of the Milwaukee Masterpiece.

When arriving at the show grounds on Sunday, watch for the electrics to silently arrive and depart or you just might miss them.

For more information, go to www.milwaukeemasterpiece.com

 

1950 Cadillac Fleetwood Limousine

Duke of Windsor's Custom Derham One-Off Limo currently on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Duke-Windsors-Custom-Derham-One-Off-Limo-NO-RESERVE-/110584672957?
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I didnt read the whole thread so if this is a repeat, I apologize,,
Bobby Car..
The Bobby Car started as The Keller..
http://www.flickr.com/photos/autohistorian/4223356718/

 

1931 Willys Victoria Rare model, dual side mounts, wire wheels, trunk rack

 

I was excited to get an email from Nancy DeWitt,
historian at the Fountainhead Antique Auto Museum
in Fairbanks, AK. She said that they'd recently finished
the complete resto of their Weidely V-12-powered 1921
Heine-Velox and showed it at both the Pebble Beach
and Kirkland concourses -- WHERE it delighted and
turned many a head! No wonder. There are only four
Heine-Veloxes known to be in existence in the present
day! Here's the head-turner in a new paint scheme,
more appropriate to it's imposing size.

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Jim, this is really exciting when we see something pretty rare
like this, in THIS kind of shape, AND apparently ready to undergo
the complete "works" at the auto spa! Is there a background
story on this find? And, am I the only one who loves the Willys
grilles from this era? LOL

 

Jimi; No story that I can find. I also like the Willys grilles from this era. I've seen plenty of this vintage Willys before but don't recall ever seeing a Victoria.

Here's another !948 Tucker Torpedo for you in unrestored condition if it is indeeed a real Tucker and not one of the mocked up ones from the movie.

 

QUOTE SunRoofCord: Here's another !948 Tucker Torpedo for you in unrestored condition if it is indeeed a real Tucker and not one of the mocked up ones from the movie. <!-- / message --><!-- attachments -->
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Jimi: SunRoof, I'm a tad SHOCKED! The Tucker people say that they were all accounted for. But this one's pretty complete. WHERE did this baby turn up?????

 

It popped up on a foreign website that I can't seem to locate again. It could be an old picture and accounted for. I couldn't read the foreign language. LOL

 

A 1947 Cadillac Never Wuz

Vern Moeller grew up in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, where as a teenager he rebuilt junkyard vehicles. “I knew how to cut things apart and weld them back together,” said Mr. Moeller, who retired three years ago after more than three decades selling industrial water treatment equipment in the Texas Panhandle and bordering states.

A few years ago, Mr. Moeller and a buddy turned a Ford Model A into a boat-tail speedster. The friend had a decrepit, 1947 Cadillac hearse he was either going to hot-rod or sell (someone had offered him $600). But Mr. Moeller had another idea, so the friend gave him the car, which Mr. Moeller turned into a stunning woody station wagon.

The closest Mr. Moeller came to doing any sort of formal design sketch was taking a photograph of the car in profile, slicing out sections from the center and putting the two ends together until he found proportions that pleased his eye. Then he went to work, cutting and welding. He replaced the hearse’s tall top with the roof from a ‘57 Chevrolet station wagon, grafted on rear fenders and tailfins from a late-’40s/early ’50s Cadillac, split the one-piece rear hatch to create a wagon-style clam-shell door and installed it all over the chassis and powertrain from a ‘67 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham sedan.

Inside, the car is customized with leather, oak and birch. The wood on the exterior is ash and mahogany.

The woody wagon drives, said Mr. Moeller, like a ‘67 Cadillac. It looks like something Detroit designers only might have dreamed of building. It sold at Barrett-Jackson for $52,800.

 

I found an Velie 4door last evening,belived to be 1925-30, in pretty bad condition, but seen it worse. What is this? After the style, and some technical issues, it seems to be american made. Gonna pass it in a few days again, and take pictures.....

6 cyl w/double ignition, wooden wheels, and some headlights of unnormal type.Not rearend lightbucket as a bullet, but more bucket styled. Hydraulic brakes!!

 

-----------------------
Headlights of an "unnormal" type??? I
can't wait to see the pics! Here's a vintage
ad for a 1927 Velie sedan.

 

SunRoof, Moehler is a MASTER!!!

 

WOW!

 

Hey there, Unleaded! Velie was a VERY respected make. I used to assume it was French or Belgian from the sound of the name, until I looked it up and found it was not only U.S. but had a family link to John Deere! Here's some background to help put this long-running make into perspective, buddy!

Made from 1908 through 1928, Velies were highly regarded automobiles, using a variety of established engines, including Lycoming, Continental and engines of their own design, as well. Velies are by no means extinct, however the official Velie Register knows of only about 230 in the U.S. and some 13 other countries . . . SO, some years and body styles may well be nonexistent -- really extinct.

Williard Velie, grandson of John Deere, founded the company in Moline, IL, out of the previous Velie Carriage Co. Soon after entering the auto business, Velie began building light and heavy trucks and, eventually, started a very successful aircraft enterprise, too. Though not inexpensive like Henry's T, Velies were very competitive in price with other quality mid-price cars of their time. Velie was a progressive company, always adopting successful new technologies.

Velie is among the better-remembered early makes, mainly for their legacy of quality commitment. The company motto was, "The Name Insures the Quality." Indeed, Velie, never among America's top 10 sellers, was a brand that prided itself on quality over quantity -- in an age when such a concept was not considered business insanity!

In 1928 Willard Velie died, and his son, Willard, Jr., could not balance the demands of automaking and aircraft at the same time. The Velie automobile was discontinued, and the junior Velie died suddenly just five months after his father. It seems a little ironic that the successful Velie automobile was canceled in January 1929, just months before the Crash of 1929 would decimate the ranks of U.S. automakers. Not luck, not planned, but fortuitous timing, nevertheless! In the tough, even cruel auto industry, it's a rare marque that is privileged to retire on top of its game!



About as stylish as any of the best mid-price cars of 1928 is this Velie!
For a whole LOT more details about this memorable -- if scarce --
American make, see HJManiac's posts, #2965 and 2966. Great stuff! <!-- / message -->

 

"unnormal" because of the shape. The only similar shape i´ve seen is on brass-cars, but then not with electrical bulbs...
Usually headlights seems to be coneshaped as on your attached imageadd, not as an "plasticbucket", without coned shape in the rear of the housing, just plain flat....

 

Just one 1908 in existence!



Restored 1908 Frayer-Miller Touring Car, built in Columbus, OH,
by the Oscar Lear Co. Whereabouts unknown, but THANKS to
American-Automobiles.com for the great photo image! Four
innovative AIR-COOLED cylinders and 24 hp. (In 1905, one
averaged 48 mph in a 24-hour endurance race.)

 

Those are drum headlights and, for a while in the 20s, were considered to be quite elegant and stylish

 

Beauty!



My THANKS to a site called Histomobile on the 'net for this nice, clean shot of a very rare 1953 Arnholt-Bristol. These were built from 1953-1960 and featured a 1.97-L six front-engine, 7.5 comp. ratio. These reputedly have gone for over $50 Gs at auction.

 

Re Bremac car
and the drawing that has already been posted.........

I posted the following link on another thread, but, it may be more relevant here.

There is no photograph, but, a short article (124 words) from The Brisbane Courier, Tuesday, 27 december 1932:

http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/22010626/1691668?zoomLevel=3

 

MrFire, thanks for the interest in the frustratingly ELUSIVE 1932 BreMac. There are are SO many points of interest about this car, a decent background record (up to a couple of months before they failed to make the '32 NY Auto Show), THEN we hit a BRICK WALL in terms of historical information! The Sidney group (including designer Amos Northrup!) made a public announcement that at least one model BreMac auto would be at the show, suggesting that they were well along on a prototype or two. They'd also started to try and whip up public interest, publicizing the wind-cheating shape, progressive suspension, safety features and the unusual seating arrangement (three up FRONT, two in BACK).

ONLY the drawing you show here ever saw the light of day! No production photos exist, apparently, and the Bremac was a no-show at the auto show. How and why did this well-thought-out, well-funded operation just dry up and blow away?

Now, streamlined cars, mostly low-production or experimentals, were not really so uncommon in the late '20s and early '30s. Witness efforts by Martin (the aircraft guy), Fuller, Lewis, Stout and others. Now, NovaDude55 just posted the below info a few days ago on yet ANOTHER teardrop car -- the Hill. You can see that this info is pretty detailed. And I find it tantalizing that the Hill effort was happening in Cinci, almost SIMULTANEOUSLY with what the nearby BreMac group were doing in Sidney! Again, it's sad that a great example of the Hill survives, while the almost-car BreMac faded into the realm of near-MYTH!!!

Now, that said: Does the SHAPE of the Hill, perhaps, SUGGEST what kind of skin would/might have covered the framework shown in your BreMac drawing? Anybody, feel free to jump in with a WAG or info!-- Jimi


BreMac sketch


Hill prototype

 

1932 Hill Arrow Plane
(Posted on the "Vintage Shots From Days Gone By" thread by NovaDude55)
<HR>

John Hill of Hill Auto Body Metal Co., Cincinnati, Ohio had built special racing car
Engine Compartment on the 1932 Hill Arrow Plane
bodies as well as engine cowlings and wheelpants for racing aircraft including the Granville Bros. Gee Bee Specials (Jimmy Doolittle) and the Roscoe Turner and Jimmy Wendell (Wendell-Williams) Specials. Hill Auto Body also made the engine cowlings and window frames for the first Panama Clipper, Christened by Eleanor Roosevelt.

The Arrow Plane was conceived and commissioned by Lyman Voelpel as a promotional vehicle to test his own ideas of a car of the future. Voelpel believed that front wheel drive, overhead valves, mid-engines, wide selection tires, and aerodynamic design would become common on production automobiles. The Arrow Plane is often mistaken for Buckmeister Fuller&#8217;s Dymaxion, but was actually built one year prior to the Dymaxion and unlike the Dymaxion, incorporated engineering concepts which were ultimately adopted throughout the automotive industry.
Hill Auto Body went on to build the Arrow Plane &#8211; inspired McQuay Norris streamliners, the Grove Laboratory land yacht and, in 1936, a gigantic streamliner for Bromo Seltzer on a bus chassis. Mr. Hill bought back several of the McQuay Norris vehicles and drove one from Cincinnati to Florida. Of all the Specials, automotive and aircraft, only one Norris McQuay and the original Arrow Plane have survived. The Arrow Plane passed through various owners including Kirk F. White and Cars of the Stars Museum until it was purchased by its present owner in 1978.
The entire vehicle is uncommonly original from the Miller-Schofield cylinder head, down to the unobtainable General Jumbo tires, three of which are inflated by the original General Jumbo inner tubes. A truly unique piece of automotive history.

 

I think I picked up this bit of info from a PreWar.com email query, but I failed to establish much of a CONTEXT (my bad!). Thus, it comes off a little disjointed (e.g., was it a U.S. car, Swedish or something ELSE?), though there are some neat historical "hints." Anyway, I'm just going to show it here VERBATIM, since the timing (1925) and the streamlined shape are pertinent to discussion of the EXTINCT Bremac and the ultra-rare Hill, plus other wind-cheaters of that era. I welcome ANY comments, folks! -- Jimi
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(un)Solved Mysteries

The Rystedt Streamline Mystery. (Update II)

<!-- start receive cut cutted code pasted on bottom page-->update II: Hamton Wayt asked us to post this:"...a number of people send comments about European designs that have similar features and pre-date this Rystedt design.

As historians we know it is true that America was behind Europe in the streamlining/aerodynamics arena - but did Mr. Rystedt (who designed this vehicle) know this when he filed his patent in 1925? In other words, did he have access to European design patents or magazines with articles featuring these European designs? Is a car like the Count Ricotti Alfa Romeo all that important if no one (ed.: in the US) knew about it? I would like to see what material, if any, Rystedt and other Americans had access to.

I do know this Rystedt design pre-dates Jaray&#8217;s US patent by 2 years. Also, does anyone know of any original streamline artwork or models that pre-date this piece? And did the European designers make presentation paintings like this piece, or only engineering blueprint drawings? Could this painting be the only one of its kind from the pre-1934 streamlining era?"

update I:According to Henk Visscher the Patent number of the car is US 1642971 (V3.Espacenet.com)

EARLIER text: Hampton Wayt writes:"On my travels I just purchased this amazing &#8220;streamline motor car&#8221; painting. Thanks to the Ralf J. F. Kieselbach book &#8220;Stromlinienautos in Europa und USA&#8221;, I found that a patent for this design was filed by Ingemar K. Rystedt of Dayton, Ohio (USA) on April 22, 1925 (Patent number 2,010,350).

As far as the US is concerned, only one patent is listed in his book has an older date than this design. And that patent is for a racecar, not a passenger vehicle. As well researched as the book is, my conclusion is that this painting might be the earliest known design for a streamline automobile in the United States! I have been able to find that Mr. Rystedt was born in Sweden, but I have no other information about the man or the history of his design. I am praying that some of your dedicated readers might be able to provide more information on this project and give their impression of its historical nature.

Particularly avant-garde is the fact that this motor car has the wheels integral to the body rather than the traditional fender skirts/mud guards. Other features as described in the patent include retractable running boards that are mechanically raised and lowered by operation of the door. The glass housing in the front for improved visibility is quite unusual. And the automobile was also to feature an air suspension!"

This design painting plus many other items of Hampton Wayt's collection will be part of Driving Through Future's Past, an exposition at the Petersen Autmotive Museum , Los Angeles from 16 April.

 

Californian Gordon Hansen's Diamond of 1947. Though he only
built one, Hansen logged over 90,000 miles traveling the U.S.
in it, in hopes of finding backing for mass production.

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The following two views of Hansen's Diamond are from a recent Hemmings AutoBlog by well-known Daniel Strohl. I was tickled to read in Daniel's piece that the Diamond SURVIVES in a private collection in Missoula, Montana!



The skeletal framework of the Diamond. I wonder: Did the BreMac
make it this far before, apparently, being killed off?


BreMac sketch



Wow! Here's a perspective on the Diamond I never saw before. It says
a LOT about the commitment to aerodynamics of this project, doesn't it?