History Auto racing 1894-1942

some fun reading (hope ya'll up on your french)...an good pictures too.

http://www.corre-lalicorne.com/en-course.html

 

Thanks for the correction, it was captioned on a page I found that I think was part of the The Veteran Car Club of Great Britain website. It was quite interesting.

www.vccofgb.co.uk/index.htm

 

No one noticed one reason I posted a photo of this oddity. From what we can see it appears to have one cam for the vertical intake valves on this side of the engine. We cannot see the other side to verify it but this engine may have NO EXHAUST VALVES.

If you look again at least on the rear two cyls. the exhaust stubs are connected to an area on the side of the cyl. that appears to have a port which is probably near the bottom of the pistons stroke when the crankshaft is at bottom dead center (BDC).

I have read about it before and I think part of what they were trying here is to let the pressure still left in the charge that had already fired to exhaust itself when the piston was at the bottom of its stroke. When the piston was in this position and dwelling there as the crank approached and passed BDC I believe during this time the exhaust exited thru these ports and the exhaust stubs which would have been above the top of the piston at its lowest position of the stroke.

This engine may have had exhaust valves on the other side and if so what they were trying out this system to see if the bottom ports helped with the exhaust. This was tried by others and I think some Indian racing bikes used this system also. Maybe Kurtis could dig up some info on what Indian did as he has a lot of early racing motorcycle knowledge. Some engines just had an open port in the side of the cyl. wall at the bottom for this but it was reported to be very noisy and dirty.

Regardless these experiments were not a success because these systems were all abandoned I believe by 1920.

We will never know of coarse as we cannot see the other side to see if it has exhaust valves.

Whatever was going on here it was very time consuming to build this engine. It appears to maybe have a common crankshaft (probably with different strokes front & rear) but it has two different gear drive trains for the cams on each end for the front four cyls. and the rear two.

It could possibly have a supercharger or some form of blower hiding on the other side. One other possibility is that this could also have been a two stoke engine as they were being experimented with at this time and later.

With the long intake manifold feed from only one end it must have something like this as you would think that the cyls. at the end would be somewhat starved of a decent charge. This could also explain the gauge which may have read pressure if it was set up this way. If not it may have been a vacuum gauge.

Hopefully some Alfa expert out there that can shed some light on this unique engine.

 

As others have posted, the photo is Guiseppi Merosi.

The engine is possibly an early 24HP version.

"Su primera obra es la 24 HP de 1910, un turismo convencional aunque fiable y, dato importante para la época, de fácil manejo; con un motor monobloque de cuatro cilindros en línea, 100x130 mm, para un total de 4084 cc que en su versión más rápida llegaba a alcanzar los 49 CV de potencia a 2.400 rpm (la denominación "24" tenía razones fiscales) con válvulas laterales y transmisión por cardán. Su producción continuó sin variaciones importantes hasta 1913 con unos 300 ejemplares, llegandose hasta los 680 con evoluciones posteriores."

http://www.escuderia.com/webar06.htm


There's more information - Greek:
http://the-oldschool-way.blogspot.com/2010/05/100-alfa-romeo.html

and - Dutch
http://www.harps.nl/geschiedenis.htm

 

http://www.doublechevron.de/Petite_Rosalie.html

 

Lots of photos:

http://www.citroen-rosalie.eu/photos_de_rosalie_4.htm

 

http://autodrome.over-blog.com/article-recherche-info-sur-citroen-spido-des-records-39444421.html

 

I think the 4 small cylinders are a compressor supercharging the 2 big cylinders.

 

Here is my great great uncle at Indy or possible Long Island 1911. Last guy on the right.

 

Any one have info on this?

 

SOHC HAL Motors.....Bluto can you share some DOHC photos ??

 

The driver is George Duller, but my mind's gone blank on what the car is ...

 

This is my favorite thread...

Bob, you need one of these shirts!
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=516586

 

i'll let you down easy...AUSTIN 7

and you call yourself and englishman...

 

I want one? Lets see...

 

You got one!!! lucky!!!

 

lots of people want one, but you have to earn one. i have come "close", but that doesn't quite cut it.

 

A different view of a 1911 Mercer that hit a building, I posted a side view before.

 

Not really studying that Alfa photo, but could that be a compressor setup? We had one years ago where half the bank of a V/8 was an engine, the other half was a compressor...

 

I don't think so...That is a very good thought and it was also my first thought when I looked at it the first time. There were also compressors made out of fours.... two run and two pumped.

 

My guess would be a 2-cylinder gasoline engine linked directly to a 4-cylinder air compressor, with possibly the exhaust of the engine being added to the compressed air output. ????

 

Yeah, worked that out afterwards, but didn't have a chance to update the post!

... and proud possessor of two Pre-War Car T-shirts!!

 

T-Head,

I don't think it is an ALFA, as it did not exist until 1909-1910. The engine looks like a variation of the Riccardo 1906 Dolphin engine, a stratified two stroke with pumping and working cylinders. The exhaust valves were mechanical and the intakes automatic or atmospheric. The pumping cylinders deliver a delayed charge to the working cylinders through read valves. The benefit was good low speed idle without a heavy flywheel.

Paul

 

T-Head,

The first thought that came to me after your comment and studying the photo was the 1916 Harley Davidson pocket valve racer. The engine of this bike was created from the existing Model 10E 1,000cc inlet over exhaust 'pocket valve' V-twin in an effort to combat Indian and Excelsior on the race track, primarily the long distance point to point races.

As far as i know the IOE 'pocket valve' engine was a favorite of riders because of the engines durability when running for a prolonged time or as the engine itself was exposed to extreme heat. I won't lecture you on the metals of early engines but i think you'll agree that metalurgy in the early part of the century took some time to be fully understood in terms of what could withstand high temperatures, the same can be said for the exhaust valve on many combustion engines. It was HD's thinking that by letting it's rivals streak in front at the beginning of many races, these frontrunners would soon slow or stop completely due to burnt out valve's, allowing the pocket valve races time to catch up and in some instances pass them for a win or respectable result and with a bike that will go the distance again if it was called upon.

I honestly don't know what to make of the engine in the photo and many of the comment's so far make alot of sense and i do agree that it is running a common crankshaft but i also believe it is a very low RPM unit. I think running this engine at higher rev's would shake the bottom end out of it. It has an inlet over exhaust arrangement of sort's on the two rear cylinders meaning it could of been designed to run for a long period of time so my personal opinion, whether it count's or not, is that it is not an aero or auto engine but some sort of compressor. Yes, we need an ALFA expert or an Italian to fill us in.

 

Yes, it is missing it's propeller. ALFA was the Italian Darracq factory before 1910, an aircraft engine that never flew. The exhaust valves are next to the two front exhaust pipes. The rear cylinders do not have exhaust pipes or ignition, they "exhaust" fresh air into the "working" cylinders.

Paul

 

Bob,

Have you rescued that Hudson yet ......?


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even better.........!!!!! when's it coming home...


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"If anyone out there has a original Pre WWI racing car and would like to participate in a on track event next year please contact me as I will take your car into consideration. I am planning an event called The Meeting Of The Monsters that you will not want to miss as it will be very special. More details soon....... Thanks T-Head"

Will be most interested in hearing the details,T-Head.

Will you be attending Hershey next week?

I`ll be there Fri and Sat.

 

Tell me more, how does one earn?