Projects Track Roadster 16 yrs in the making

You can actually buy 'copper', or 'Cunifer' brake pipe. Cunifer is more expensive, and stronger, but not by more than about 25%.

 

The Track Roadster is nicer for real than in photos. We enjoyed having it at our shop open house today and I'll have pictures to share possibly later or tomorrow at the latest. Truly, it is work of engineering artistry.
Tom

 

LB+1

The steering is sluggish under braking, but not noticeably different that other situations. It may be that the roadster could use a bit more caster. I don't know about toe in changes regarding steering feel. With a kingpin front axle there's a limit to what is possible.

Although I haven't pushed the car, it seems to understeer strongly (plow to to the outside of a curve). I will have to play with all this once I get the motor tuned properly.

You are right it is kind of spookey on a long curve in heavy traffic.

Keep in touch,

charlie

 

Morrisman,

Stuart in mn answered better than I could. Different material available in the aftermarket and different governmental regulations. Metal is metal in the colonies and the mother country. Not much more can be said in this topic.

Does "Morris" refer to the auto marque? if so, cool. I want to build a Morris Minor sedan (saloon) D-gasser running a 276 DeSoto Hemi...what do you think?

Thanks to Stuart in mn for the knowledgable reply.

Trakrodstr

 

VEOTOM,

Many thanks for the kind invitatation and the outstanding hospitality. Everyone associated with Steve's Auto was gracious and friendly to a new guy like me.

I really enjoyed all the well informed questions about the Maserodi. There is a wealth of hot rodding knowledge in the Raytown area and even more expertise regarding Indy and sprint car history. I learned a lot from all the experts, which is the most fun part of all.

I hope to see you folks at Steve's Auto next year and in the months ahead.

trakrodstr
aka charlie

 

See you @ BB's......I will be the guy with the kid wearing a hat in tow (14 month old Henry).

Chris

 

Find measured center, then tape the steering wheel at 12:00.
This will help your mind tune to the car - all laugh here, but it
works.

 

Charlie, thank you. Stephanie is still in the process of downloading (new computer and software) photos from yesterday so it may be a few days.
Thank you for taking your time and gas to bring that beauty of a car over to our neck of the woods. You could tell the locals loved it!
Tom

 

OK LB+1, will do.

 

Tom,

Shopworn words, but true nevertheless...MY pleasure.

charlie

 

Charlie,
A thought on the steering issue... I looked back through the build photos and found some of the steering box mounting. It seems to be well mounted and tied into the floor and cowl, but I'm wondering if you are getting some flex in the entire structure as you steer? This would show up as movement at the top end of the pitman arm where it goes through the side of the cowl. It doesn't take much to give that "spooky" feel when trying to hold a line around a curve. The problem is it's tough to notice because you don't get any feedback through the wheel. You are holding the wheel in the same place, but the car is drifting around. Is the body mounted on rubber bushings? Keep in mind, the steering is only mounted to the body, so any flex between the body and frame will show up as compliance in the steering. Even if the mounts are only flexing 1/16", by the time that motion gets up to the pitman arm, it may become significant. Just a thought...

 

exwestracer

Whoa, very interesting thought. It's late...let me think on your idea and get back to you with a reply tomorrow.

Thanks so much for the analysis and an intriguing hypothesis.

More soon,

charlie

 

Hi Charlie. Thanks for bringing the TR by for the private showing. It was great meeting you and chatting. I tried to load the video I took of you pulling away earlier but could not get it to load.

The wife and I got to BB's today just it time to see you pull away. Sorry to miss you, but she sure sounded good leaving! Chirp, chirp, chirp! Damn hotrodders!

Mike

 

Solving that sort of problem is pretty much what I do....glad to help if I can.

There's so much original and different engineering in that car that it's bound to take some sorting out. Don't give up, just think about how much fun you'll have once it's truly "done".

 

exwestacer,

I have thought about your question quite a bit. The body to frame bushings are solid polyurethane with the body mounted hard against the frame. The region internal to the pitman arm is particularly rigid. However, it is true that the steering gear assembly is mounted on the body.

I spoke with Jack and he felt that if there were flex and compliance it would be manifested as buckling in the sheet metal below the pitman arm and/or in the driver's side floor pan sheet metal near the steering gearbox.

Tonight I will inspect these areas carefully, but if there was obvious warping I would have noticed.

There is definitely something weird and unsettling about the steering on tight curves, even on relatively smooth pavement.

Yesterday for the first time I noticed that there is a "catch" or binding when turning to the left. The binding is just off center left and not detectable during a right turn.

Related to steering issue I have been wondering about the "reduction" gear between the steering wheel and the Schroeder box. It is a racing part which was installed "backwards" to reduce the ultra-fast Schroeder sprint car steering ratio. I can state categorically that major steering effort is required under "normal" conditions (more than any car I have ever driven); so it may be that the present high level of steering effort exceeds the capabilities of the reduction gear.

I will disconnect the drag link at the steering arm and see if I can isolate the binding.

I'm not sure about how to test for your idea. I guess I could put the rear tires on 2x4 boards and a 2x4 under a front tire (one at a time) and then let the other front tire droop to see of there is any weird travel or binding.

Next, I could slowly jack up the drooping tire to see if the tie rod is catching on the lower parallel bar(s) during its full travel. When we first set up the TR the front torsion bars were allowing the frame to sag and touch the lower parallel bars, so I cranked the torsion bars and raised the front about 1/2 inch so that the tie rod would clear the lower parallel bars...but this was all done in a static mode.

I know I'm mixing up steering symptoms that are probably not related:

binding/catching to the left
wandering during a turn (spooky behavior).

I hear you on hangin' in there and getting the TR fine tuned....

 

LB+1

Good suggestion, will do.

I'll have to put a witness mark on the steering wheel and on the steering column because I take the wheel off and on when getting in and out of the TR (not much room in a 29 Ford cabin). Sometimes I don't pay attention and the steering wheel is off on spline notch.

charlie

 

Why did Jack not pick up on this binding up? When the MTR was hauled could some thing got bent from binding it down?
This car, should be a top notch handling, touring roadster!

 

LB+1

The steering system binding just started to be noticeable yesterday. To be fair Jack "inherited" the Schroeder box, my selection completely. And I wanted the ole timey drag link and external pitman arm etc. So Jack had to live with my choice to a large extent. It's interesting you should use the term "touring roadster" that is the term Jack used. He said many times...you're asking for a touring roadster not a track roadster.

Also, I specified the front torsion bar setup and so forth; so, Jack had quite a few constraints to live with. Maybe Jack should have beaten some sense into me with the first set of torsion bars he ordered and then built a more conventional car while I was in the hospital.

I keep remembering my Dad's comforting words..."think how good this will feel when it stops hurting".

Your concern is appreciated and I still am determined, someday, to pass through the bayou country in the touring roadster.

charlie

 

Charlie,
With drag link steering, the 1/2" ride height change will not have a significant effect on the geometry or binding. The reversed quick steer unit shouldn't be an issue IF it is supported at both ends (I didn't go back to look).

If you have someone to help, a quick check would be to put the car on a high traction surface (rough, clean asphalt or concrete) and turn the wheel back and forth while watching the steering linkage and box for movement. As I said, pay close attention to the steering box shaft where the pitman arm attaches. Movement there is going to cause a delay in steering, and wandering in a constant radius corner. THe front wheels should begin to turn noticeably within the first 20deg of steering wheel movement.

Jacking the front end off the ground and moving the steering wheel will tell you if the bind is in the box or linkage.

 

OK exwestracer, I'll run your tests.

I think found the source of the weird binding recent binding (unless it;s temp related). I had loosened a connecting collar between the steering column and the reduction gear; when I re-tightened the fasteners I caused a bit of interence between the collar and the reduction gear. This evening I repositioned the collar and the recent binding disappeared, again unless it's temp relate. It's chilly here and wasn't going to get any warmer soon.

Thanks again for your analysis and suggestions there no substiture for someone who knows what their doing.

charlie

 

Charlie, Good to see progress - even with the steering issue. You will overcome it.

 

Morris is the marque, of which my avatar (and the pic below) shows my efforts at hot rodding.



Here's an original, unmolested:



I don't want to labour the copper versus cunifer point, but copper is not the same material as cunifer, whichever country you come from.

 

My point was that metallurgy is the same.

You didn't respond to my Morris Minor gasser question...don't like the idea?

You ride looks cool, do I see exhaust headers for a V-configuration engine? In any case what engine do you run in your hot rod?

The photo taken at the cruise in looks like a cousin to your car is the next hot rod in line.

Thanks for the photos.

charlie

 

A quick note before I call it a day.

Brett came over this evening and remapped the cold start settings and the start cycle settings (different parameters). The TR starts from cold pretty well and starts from warm very well. It idles nice.

We took the Maserodi on the road with me driving and Brett adjusting RPM/fuel settings....WOW! what a difference it makes to have a the Dodge Hemi run all the way up to 5000rpm with good mixture. The roadster feels like a rocket compared to before tonight. The motor feels STRONG.

We also will now adjust the throttle linkage to obtain WOT, as it now only opens about 3/4 of WOT. This is getting fun!

Big progress tonight; I have a shit eatin' grin as I write these words.

Cool beans,

trakrodstr
aka charlie

 

Oh yes, the venerable Morris Minor lends itself to almost any sort of custom hot rod job.



For many years I wanted a Minor, with simple fat tires and a chopped top, which looks incredibly tough for something so basic.

I had an aluminum Rover 3.5 litre (Buick 215) motor in my Morris Eight. No massive horsepower, but it stepped out quite smartly.

 

I'll bet that surprised the hell out of a lot of people! Especially if they didn't notice that there was a header peeking out from under each side of the hood...

 

Something I found with the steering box I fitted in my Morris was that it had a tight spot when dead centre, but loosened up as you moved off centre. I found out that this is intentional, as when it wears it will obviously be in the dead ahead position, where it sits most of the time, so you can then adjust that wear out, take up the slack, without it getting tighter in the rest of the movement that will not have worn so much. I assume there was a slightly elliptical gear in it, if you see what I mean.


My steering box was out of a light commercial van, but there's too many pages for me to go back and find out what box you have used, and my memory is too foggy to remember.

 

The Buick Alum V8 was one of the engines I considered for my roadster; but my strong Mopar bias took hold. In many ways the little alum V8 is a perfect hot rod engine.

Good looking Minor, the DeSoto 276 would fit easily and I have a forged, billet crank, a set of ported and polished 330 heads and a set of vintage Hilborn mechanical fuel injectors. Hummm...I guess I better finish the TR project before I begin another journey into the unknown.

Thanks for the cool photos.

 

Due to the ever-tightening car modification laws in the UK, I did endeavour to make it look somewhat stock, to confuse the average Joe.

 

Charlie, please hang loose waiting for us if you can, Stephanie is trying to hunt down her camera cable but between school, kids, church and running our father-in-law to the hospital for blood pressure checks, she is running out of time. We'll come though for you with photos soon!
tom